I bought an Akane Yellowstone on eBay several years ago (can't recall what I paid for it) and it's just been sitting on the shelf. Then through word of mouth I found a guy who converted the motor to a NWSL unit and added a Tsunami decoder with LED headlamp and tender backup light. OMG! What a tremendous locomotive. Living in Minnesota I travel to Duluth every chance I get to look at the refurbished Yellowstone in the old Duluth depot. Just to stand in the cab and look into that huge firebox is awesome. Here's a couple of photos of my favorite loco:
the goat
twhite wrote: markpierce wrote: mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.$75 in 1959. With inflation, that's probably not less than $432 today, with a 50-cent burger going for $3 to $5 now.MarkMark--Dang, and at 19 I could have had that loco for the price of 3 absolutely USELESS college textbooks on Health and Safety, Psychology 1-A and pre-Plate Tectonics Historical Geology, LOL! Tom
markpierce wrote: mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.$75 in 1959. With inflation, that's probably not less than $432 today, with a 50-cent burger going for $3 to $5 now.Mark
mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.
I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432.
Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.
$75 in 1959. With inflation, that's probably not less than $432 today, with a 50-cent burger going for $3 to $5 now.
Mark
Mark--
Dang, and at 19 I could have had that loco for the price of 3 absolutely USELESS college textbooks on Health and Safety, Psychology 1-A and pre-Plate Tectonics Historical Geology, LOL!
Tom
where are my textbooks... stashed in an outside building. Wheres my model railroad stuff? guesss.s......
The books are rather useless to me now...
But the MR back issues and other mags are usefull...and so are in the train room... (yay which was really better....)
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
dinwitty wrote: twhite wrote: mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.MJ--It went for $455. Five dollars over my final bid, GRRRRR!!! Oh, well--I understand that the seller has a really fine reputation, so whoever got it, if they are willing to put in a few bucks extra for some newer super-detail castings, should have himself a pretty fine running loco. To answer your question, when I bought my first Akane in 1964, it ran $109.00 MSRP. Pretty hefty for those times, especially when a lot of other brass was running between $50-85. My second Akane ran me $450 used about eight years ago from Peach Creek shops, and my latest ran me $225, simply because it needed a lot of rebuilding and it was a swap meet and the seller was a really NICE guy and we both knew from the condition of the loco (at that time) that it was a more than fair price. Just got in the PSC castings for it, and it's turning out to be a really handsome loco. But that PSC in the red box looks like their latest run (same red box my 2-year old Rio Grande 2-10-2 came in), and from the photos, I'm really DROOLING! Best of luck to you--that's just one HUNKER of a beautiful loco!Tom give me your detail reccomendations to add from ps.
twhite wrote: mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.MJ--It went for $455. Five dollars over my final bid, GRRRRR!!! Oh, well--I understand that the seller has a really fine reputation, so whoever got it, if they are willing to put in a few bucks extra for some newer super-detail castings, should have himself a pretty fine running loco. To answer your question, when I bought my first Akane in 1964, it ran $109.00 MSRP. Pretty hefty for those times, especially when a lot of other brass was running between $50-85. My second Akane ran me $450 used about eight years ago from Peach Creek shops, and my latest ran me $225, simply because it needed a lot of rebuilding and it was a swap meet and the seller was a really NICE guy and we both knew from the condition of the loco (at that time) that it was a more than fair price. Just got in the PSC castings for it, and it's turning out to be a really handsome loco. But that PSC in the red box looks like their latest run (same red box my 2-year old Rio Grande 2-10-2 came in), and from the photos, I'm really DROOLING! Best of luck to you--that's just one HUNKER of a beautiful loco!Tom
MJ--
It went for $455. Five dollars over my final bid, GRRRRR!!! Oh, well--I understand that the seller has a really fine reputation, so whoever got it, if they are willing to put in a few bucks extra for some newer super-detail castings, should have himself a pretty fine running loco.
To answer your question, when I bought my first Akane in 1964, it ran $109.00 MSRP. Pretty hefty for those times, especially when a lot of other brass was running between $50-85. My second Akane ran me $450 used about eight years ago from Peach Creek shops, and my latest ran me $225, simply because it needed a lot of rebuilding and it was a swap meet and the seller was a really NICE guy and we both knew from the condition of the loco (at that time) that it was a more than fair price. Just got in the PSC castings for it, and it's turning out to be a really handsome loco.
But that PSC in the red box looks like their latest run (same red box my 2-year old Rio Grande 2-10-2 came in), and from the photos, I'm really DROOLING!
Best of luck to you--that's just one HUNKER of a beautiful loco!
give me your detail reccomendations to add from ps.
Dinwitty--
I'd better tell you first of all, that I detail my Yellowstones a bit differently than a Missabe prototype in one very specific way--I substitute a visored Pyle-style headlight for the NP-style that Missabe used on the M-3/4's. The reason being is that since I model primarily Rio Grande steam--and Rio Grande borrowed the Missabe Yellowstones for several winters during WWII when the Great Lakes ore docks were down--I simply added the Yellowstones to my Rio Grande steam fleet as the 'never-was' L-140 3900 series.
Now, with that bit of fanciful fiction out of the way, the major changes I make are pretty much to the front of the boiler, and are fully within Missabe practice I remove the Worthington FWH system and pump from the top and front of the boiler and substitute an Elesco bundle-style (as was done on many of the M-3/4 locos). I use a PSC #32187 'oversize' Elesco bundle, which has a contoured bottom that fits right on and covers up the hole left by removing the Worthington FWH on the top of the boiler. Then on the front of the boiler, I remove the Akane twin pumps and substitute PSC #3449 twin pumps, which are more detailed (Cal-Scale also makes these pumps). To do this, you have to detach the front of the smokebox itself, because all of the boiler-face details are held on by inside screws. Then I remove the Worthington FWH pump and substitute a #3511 Elesco pump centered right below the smokebox door. None of this requires soldering, BTW, unless you want to. I use a gap-filling CA to attach all of the brass detail parts, which works well for me (though it could cause some extra parts falling off if you ever need to strip and repaint the loco).
And that's pretty much it for my Yellowstones. In the future, I'm thinking of adding brake shoes and some extra piping (though the Akanes are pretty close, especially if you look at prototype photos of the M-3/4's). I'm NOT a super-detail freak (though I sure admire those who are), I'm more into the general 'impression' of these locos. For me, its the general operation qualities of these handsome beasties, and making sure they run smooth and powerful. So far, my little stable of these locos have been running VERY nicely, thank you. Granted, the Akanes do NOT have the superior details of the newer PSC's, but they're serving me well. And the newer PSC castings on the front somehow give the rest of the loco a certain 'look' that at least for me, improves it quite a bit.
Hope this helps a little.
Joe--
Though I've had similar encounters of brass locos 'disassembling' themselves after time, for me it's never happened with the older Japanese brass, but more commonly with the earlier and middle period Korean brass.
I had a Korean-made Custom Brass Rio Grande M-75 Mountain that began shuffling off detail parts about a year after I bought it new--and it got to be no fun following it down the track scooping up things it was shedding, let me tell you. It had a very underpowered Sagami can, and the drivers were sprung with--get this--GUITAR wire! That baby took a LOT of time and effort to get running properly, and it still isn't up to the running qualities of, say, my much older Japanese PFM Rio Grande 2-8-2.
Actually, my early Akane and PFM and Westside brass have held up remarkably well, and I run them quite regularly.
But I certainly agree with you about having MJ hold out for that PSC M-4. PSC's quality and running characteristics are just top-notch, and they're built SOLID! As I said earlier, my PSC F-81 is built like a Sherman tank, runs like a Swiss watch and hauls like a team of oxen. I can only imagine what that M-4 must be like!
mj3200 wrote:FYI these are pictures of the unit, although the whole thing isn't finalised yet.All this talk of $300 plastic in crisp detail is making me nervous!!On the other hand you could wait forever.
FYI these are pictures of the unit, although the whole thing isn't finalised yet.
All this talk of $300 plastic in crisp detail is making me nervous!!
On the other hand you could wait forever.
Lookin' good, eh? Can't tell for sure, but I think this is the most recent run. PSC uses red boxes only since few years. If you could turn it around and find brake rodding then we can be sure.
Plastic models - as nice as they could be - just don't look like something like this...
2-8-8-0
Amen to that. Like we HO'ers, there is an N-scale 2-8-8-4 available, but only in brass (the beautiful Benchmark model of the Missabe M-3/4) and pretty darned pricey. I think both HO and N scale could benefit from a well-made 'mass-market' model of these locos. It seems to be a widely ignored articulated wheel arrangement, especially when you consider that B&O alone had--what? 25 or so of these locos? SP had 10, Northern Pacific had at least that many--dang, so how come so many Big Boys, for instance?
BTW--the Akanes are all earlier brass than the Westsides, but with a little tweaking can be made into really fine runners. What they need more than anything is cosmetic detail updating, which is pretty easy to do with castings from PSC or Cal-Scale. I've got a couple of Westside articulateds (Rio Grande L-105 Challengers) and they're just lovely, powerful locos, and built like Sherman tanks, so I would assume that the M-3/4's would be just as good. Westside imported EXCEPTIONAL brass, IMO.
But like you, I'm ready to see a 2-8-8-4 in affordable ABS plastic in BOTH scales.
I suppose all we can do is keep writing the Mfgrs. SOMEONE'S got to listen, sometime, by golly!
PS: That's one SWEET looking cat in your Avatar!
On the subject of brass, i have no experience with the Akane's, but the ones imported by Westside (built i believe by Samhongsa) are beautiful engines and good runners.
On the subject of plastic...If SOMEONE would build a plastic 2-8-8-4, whether a DM&IR M3/4 class or a B&O EM-1, i think they would sell a boatload of them. If one was available in N scale i would be in for at least 6, and even in HO i would buy 1 or 2, for display if nothing else. I model B&O, but a M3/4 would be a much better starting point for a kitbash than the USRA 2-8-8-2s. I would be in line for bunches of any one of these. I can dream i suppose.
You have to wonder why they havent built one, it seems like the only major "large" articulated type a mainstream company hasnt done yet.
Eric--
I wonder, too. I wouldn't wait for a BLI/PCM model as they're so backed up we could all be dead by the time one comes out, LOL! Judging from my Genesis Rio Grande 3800 4-6-6-4 and it's performance, I think Athearn could come up with a winner if they ever released a Yellowstone--and yes, decided to go a little further 'East' than they've been doing with their steam locos. And I've seen that O-scale MTH baby--it's a real honey. All they'd have to do is reduce the dies, I would think (they're also releasing O-gauge Z-series Challengers, and THAT loco wouldn't be bad to see in affordable HO, either). I understand that their Triplex is very satisfactory--also originally released in O--so they're not afraid to release the 'other' articulateds.
One argument I've heard is that there were only 18 Missabe Yellowstones built and that they only ran on a relatively small ore-hauling railroad in Minnesota. Not true, they spent as much time off of their home lines during WWII (Rio Grande, Northern Pacific, Great Northern and even rumored time on the Western Pacific) as they did on the Missabe. So they saw an awful lot of country during their lifetimes--a lot more than the more fabled UP Big Boys (of which only 25 were built, and saw most of their action in Utah and Wyoming and ONLY on UP). And if you add in the TOTAL number of locomotives built with the 2-8-8-4 wheel arrangement, including the ones built for Northern Pacific, Southern Pacific and Baltimore and Ohio, you come up with a LOT more 2-8-8-4's than you do 4-8-8-4's. They were pretty much all over the US from coast to coast.
And once a manufacturer decides to DO a 2-8-8-4 mechanism in HO, it would seem to me not to be a far stretch to manufacture different superstructures to put on it. Akane did it back in the '60's by releasing the same drive mechanism with two different boiler/cab configurations--the Missabe M-3/4 and the B&O EM-1. Of course, back then a lot of us modelers were a little more tolerant of things like this, even though both prototypes were built by Baldwin about the same time and shared a lot of common mechanical features (though the EM's were built with less TE). So it would appear to me that once the basic mechanism is produced, we could see Yellowstones for quite a few different railroads--certainly a 'mass-market' loco just waiting to be produced.
Frankly, even though I own 3 of the early Akanes--which I like,but have pretty much re-built from the ground up--I think it too bad that one of the most handsome and powerful articulateds ever built is STILL regulated to the expensive brass market. Yellowstones--any of them--deserve more popular exposure.
Just my thoughts.
The Yellowstone is one of those engines I keep expecting to be announced from a manufacturer any time now. The only problem is that BLI/PCM already has a lot announced, Athearn seems to like west coast engines, and Bachmann stick to the USRA stuff for the mist part. I wonder if MTH would do it, they have already released one in O scale.
Eric
Let me chime in on the PSC model--it's the most beautiful model of the locomotive I've ever seen, period.
I've got one PSC loco--the Rio Grande F-81 2-10-2, and it's a quiet, smooth loco that runs like a Swiss watch and hauls like a team of oxen. Absolutely beautiful model, so with PSC you get quality, INCREDIBLE detail and great running characteristics. And PSC is a very fine company to deal with if you ever have any trouble with the product. They're a small, VERY customer-friendly company in Montana, so you can be assured of back-up.
As Vapeurchapelon said, the asking price is fair for a locomotive of this quality.
Keep us posted, okay?
mj3200 wrote:It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00.
It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00.
Don't compare these two. The PSC is MUCH better than the older WSM - and it's painted.
2200$ would be fair for the SAMHONGSA built PSC model. Ask if it actually is this one.
In 2003 PSC imported just one more run of these great engines, builder is unknown but everybody of my friends having both the Samhongsa and the newest say that qualitywise it is the same. I saw one running some months ago and it was beautyfully. And it has a little bit more detail, especially brake rodding.
MRSP of these last run PSC models was around $2300. BUT: About a year or so after delivery the well known shop THE CABOOSE put a larger number of them on ebay and they went away for about $1500. Probably because it was a larger number. Keep this in mind for the case the offering is the most recent model. Then perhaps you could get the price down somewhat.
Fellas,
Sorry to keep asking for more info, but I've been offered a New in the Box PSC for $2,200.00. Is this way over the top?
It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00. Although there are no pictures of it.
Any opinions greatfully recieved.
Jonathan
mj--
Your Yellowstone will be happier than a clam with 34" radius and #6 turnouts. You'll have a little overhang on the curves, since those brass lokies are prototypically articulated (only the front set of drivers swing). I don't know about the PSC or Westside Yellowstones, but the Akanes have enough 'swing' in them to negotiate a 24" radius without any problems, and as Dinwitty said, he's gotten his down to a 22". Older brass locos tended to have looser tolerances than newer brass.
My minimum is 34", and all my articulateds take it with ease. You're safe, LOL!
If you're sure you're not going to bid for that E-bay one, I'll take a swing at it. FOUR Yellowstones, LOL? I need my head examined.
mj3200 wrote:Thanks for all the tips fellas. After loads of emails I may be on to one to buy, although not the current ebay listing so if anybody wants to have a chew at that don't hold back on my account.Out of curiosity, and as this would be my first foray into the brass world are they decent runners? And would they cope with 34" radius curves and #6 turnouts?It looks like quite a few people are intrested in the M3/4 which is no surprise!I recon that any of the big articulates made by PCM or the like would be a big seller, and as the Big Boy and H8 have been tackled, with I imagine commercial success, I would have thought this would be next in popularity with the exeption maybe of the AC12. Just my 2cents.
Thanks for all the tips fellas. After loads of emails I may be on to one to buy, although not the current ebay listing so if anybody wants to have a chew at that don't hold back on my account.
Out of curiosity, and as this would be my first foray into the brass world are they decent runners? And would they cope with 34" radius curves and #6 turnouts?
It looks like quite a few people are intrested in the M3/4 which is no surprise!
I recon that any of the big articulates made by PCM or the like would be a big seller, and as the Big Boy and H8 have been tackled, with I imagine commercial success, I would have thought this would be next in popularity with the exeption maybe of the AC12. Just my 2cents.
With some tweakage, I got mine to go aroound 22 inch radius, and my recent 15 inch radius test blew me away as it might like 15 if the track is smoothly laid. It may like 18 inch radius fine, however just better to run them 24 inch or higher.
Mine is running like a champ, its pulling anything I throw at it so far.
My little test track 22 inch loop has some rough track areas and it makes it over them fine like some of my other brass steamers and electrics don't like and even some diesels like my DD40 from Athearn, so if you get one of these guys, you'll be pleased as punch.
MIne is virtually new as it sat in a hobbyshop virtually untouched all these years. So its a brand new engine practically.
Number 6 turnouts should be a cinch, even number 5's, and don't be surprised if it likes a number 4.
I've got that film on Video, and it's worth getting. Kind of short, but there's a lot of good action on it--a little fuzzy at times as far as detail, but it shows those Yellowstones to good advantage. Those ladies were really capable of tearing out when they wanted to--one pacing shot of one of them hauling empties shows that they were pretty much Speed Demons when they wanted to let out. I wouldn't be surprised if Baldwin built them to max out at 60mph or so. They certainly never look as if they're slogging with a heavy load.
There are also stills of the Yellowstones on the Rio Grande during the winters of WWII. They sure look at home in the Rockies, LOL!
PS: Zero bids on the E-bay model so far. But there's four days left, and I understand that E-bay bids start piling up at the last moment. I'm checking it out, just out of curiosity to see what the bids add up to.
T.
twhite wrote:Stix--Yes, that Yellowstone is N-scale, distributed by Benchmark Models in Ukiah, CA. And hoo-boy, is it a beauty! It's offered in both Worthington and Elesco versions (Akane only did the Worthington version, though I know that Westside and Precision Scale did both) and with each loco you get one of several styles of Missabe cabeese. Lucky N-scalers! If I were N-scale, I'd be throwing up a second morgtage just to get a decent fleet of the little ladies--really beautiful models. There are currently two older Akane models on E-bay. One's being offered for a beginning bid of over $600, which from the condition description is pretty over-priced, IMO, then the one that is on the link above, which seems to be in better condition and is opening at $349, which to me seems eminently fair. Bids close on April 9th, so it should be interesting to see what happens. Frankly, this is the first time in YEARS that I've seen so many Yellowstones suddenly available. Yo, BLI, Genesis, PCM, are you LISTENING?Tom
Stix--
Yes, that Yellowstone is N-scale, distributed by Benchmark Models in Ukiah, CA. And hoo-boy, is it a beauty! It's offered in both Worthington and Elesco versions (Akane only did the Worthington version, though I know that Westside and Precision Scale did both) and with each loco you get one of several styles of Missabe cabeese. Lucky N-scalers! If I were N-scale, I'd be throwing up a second morgtage just to get a decent fleet of the little ladies--really beautiful models.
There are currently two older Akane models on E-bay. One's being offered for a beginning bid of over $600, which from the condition description is pretty over-priced, IMO, then the one that is on the link above, which seems to be in better condition and is opening at $349, which to me seems eminently fair. Bids close on April 9th, so it should be interesting to see what happens. Frankly, this is the first time in YEARS that I've seen so many Yellowstones suddenly available.
Yo, BLI, Genesis, PCM, are you LISTENING?
I don't see the other one, theres an MTH O scale version up.
I won't be bidding on it, its all yours.
http://www.railwayshop.com/details/details77.html
I may have to just get this, their huge, powerful, and this ghostly whistle.
It seems to me just in the last year or so someone had an ad for a brass DMIR Yellowstone in one of the model railroad mags...but it might have been an N version??
According the Missabe Road Historical Society website, HO models of the 2-8-8-4 have been made by Akane, PFM, Westside and Precision Scale.
http://www.missabe.com/
You could maybe check with Carr's Hobby in Duluth, if anyone knows about them I would think they would:
http://www.cpinternet.com/~carrs/trains.htm
MJ---
BID ON IT!!!!!
If you don't, I'LL have to, LOL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Akane-DM-IR-2-8-8-4-Yellowstone-KDs-No-lighting_W0QQitemZ320235422429QQihZ011QQcategoryZ78178QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
one up on ebay now, paypal only
Jonathan--
Actually, I've got three of them--Akanes. One I bought new when they first came out, the other I got through a consignment brass shop and the latest--my "Basket Case" at the swap-meet. Vapeurchapelon is right--they're very sturdily put together, and if you're at all handy with either solder (or CA for that matter) both Cal-Scale and PSC make excellent detail castings.
Keep checking E-bay and consignment brass markets--I think that eventually you'll find one available. Another member of the Forum (Dinwitty) found one not too long ago, so they're out there.