Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Brass DM&IR M4

22797 views
64 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2010
  • 18 posts
Posted by cyclebrkr on Monday, August 8, 2011 9:14 PM

Thanks! Looks like i have my work cut out for me. That's going to be a lot of masking!

 

Stephan

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • 270 posts
Posted by CB&Q Modeler on Monday, August 8, 2011 8:45 PM

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • 18 posts
Posted by cyclebrkr on Monday, August 8, 2011 6:56 PM

Wow, this is kind of ironic that this thread should pop up again. I just picked up and Akane DM&IR on feebay for $400. Is that a good deal? From the research that i did, it seemed so.

I plan on running this, so I'll do all the necessary work to get her running the right way. I plan on putting in a Tsunami decoder also. It's unpainted, so does anyone have any still pictures to send so i can get her painted up? Thanks!

 

Stephan

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Monday, August 8, 2011 11:00 AM

CB&Q Modeler

Just noticed this thread popping up again,lot of great information from some very knowledgable folks.A very interesting read.

One thing i noticed though was a lack of video's of your prize Yellowstones,While mine is one of the older 1960 versions I found adding a NWSL can motor and Tsunami DCC / sound inhanced it to the degree that I will hang on to it.

Hear is the first test run after the above modifications,a bit loud and absolutey inapproriate cars but hey it was just a test to see if she even run lol.

 http://youtu.be/6FaOQBt5lh4

Beautiful!  Bow  

Those Akane mechanisms are pretty much bullet-proof IMO.   I've got a can motor in one of mine, the other two are still open-frame, but they run smooth with very little 'coffee-grinder' sound. 

Reason I don't have videos of them is that except for two pretty bad tries, I don't have videos of my layout, period, LOL!   But as soon as I figure out how to keep everyhing in focus, I'm going to start trying.   Of course, the boiler overhang on those Akanes is absolutely FEARSOME, even on the 36" radius curves of my layout--and my layout is almost ALL curves and cliffs, so any videos I do of those big monsters will look a little strange, to say the least.  Doesn't bother me, of course, but it tends to get some raised eyebrows from visitors, LOL!

That's one beautiful locomotive you've got there.  If you ever decide NOT to keep it, PM me. Stick out tongue

Tom Big Smile

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • 270 posts
Posted by CB&Q Modeler on Sunday, August 7, 2011 8:15 PM

Just noticed this thread popping up again,lot of great information from some very knowledgable folks.A very interesting read.

One thing i noticed though was a lack of video's of your prize Yellowstones,While mine is one of the older 1960 versions I found adding a NWSL can motor and Tsunami DCC / sound inhanced it to the degree that I will hang on to it.

Hear is the first test run after the above modifications,a bit loud and absolutey inapproriate cars but hey it was just a test to see if she even run lol.

 http://youtu.be/6FaOQBt5lh4

  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: Cresco, IA
  • 1,773 posts
Posted by ChadLRyan on Saturday, August 6, 2011 4:32 PM

Not to sway the subject, but I have a PSC-Iron Horse Models, big Connie, & it is just incredible. can't say enough about it. For me, it is just the right size, as articulateds are a bit big for my modeling endeavors.  I hope you all feel the enjoyment & reward that is with the models you have. It's a pretty nice feeling to admire them in one's own home.. a pretty good feeling.. 

Chad L Ryan
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Saturday, August 6, 2011 3:12 PM

I noticed that this thread has been resurrected.  Since then, there WILL be a 2-8-8-4 in plastic available from Bachmann in October.  Okay, it's not an M-3/4, it's the B&O EM-1, but at least it's a 'commerical' Yellowstone at last.

Saw it at the NMRA Convention here in Sacramento last month, and if it runs as well as it looks, it should be a big hit for steam fans.  And knowing Bachmann's propensity for add/subtract details, it wouldn't surprise me if later on they put on a Missabe superstructure to the mechanism.  I think all they'd have to do is a new boiler/cab configuration, some different pilot details and add a Centipede tender.  

Wouldn't that be nice?  Stick out tongue

Tom Big Smile 

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • 1 posts
Posted by vintagebrass on Saturday, August 6, 2011 8:08 AM

Hi Havenlane ,

I have been looking for a Toby DM&IR Yellowstone with the incorrect spoked drivers ... would you be interested in selling one from your collection ?

Thanks , VintageBrass

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:46 PM

Let me check out the Spring 2008 Brass Model Trains Price & Data Guide concerning DM&IR Yellowstones.,,,,

PSC coasting drives are valued at $2500.  (I'd never never get a coasting-drive loco for all the problems I've heard about 'em.)

Non-coasting PSCs go for about $1,650.

The WMCs are valued at a $1000.

The Gem (Akane) models for $700.

The factory painted PFM/Tenshodos go for $2400.

The PFM Crowns are valued at $4,500.  OUCH!  I don't dare touch one of those.

Mark

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:46 PM

Havenlane--

I'd be curious as to the running qualities of the models you have in your collection.  Including the incorrect spoked wheel models.  They seem to be a 'rara avis' in the current brass market, at least as far as I can ascertain.  Perhaps even more so than the elusive Westside.  

Do you perhaps have photos of them that you could share with the rest of we Yellowstone fans?

Tom Smile [:)]

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1 posts
Posted by havenlane on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:39 PM

I dont know a great amount about brass nor about DMIR in particular but I do believe that the following DMIR Yellowstone models were produced in HO brass - the ones underlined and in bold print can be confirmed as they are in my collection and are believed to be in original livery.. Even then and certainly in cases where I do not have the model I am open to correction on the data below.

United Toby DMIR M4 unpainted about 25 made in 1959 and again in in 1960 - the ones I have ALL are fitted with incorrect spoked wheels (inc one still sealed in its "plastic" bag so I am confident this was how they left the factory).  This lets the model down...

Fulgurex DMIR M4 #221 black - model as above inc incorrect spoked wheels but factory painted for Fulgurex Europe -  advertised in Fulgurex catalogue around early 1960s

Akane DMIR M4 unpainted made between 1959 and 1967 - imported by Akane  or by Gem Imperial  catalogue no AK-107 or IM-107? (Gem = sprung drivers)  Robust models which could make a great model if you take the trouble to add the necessary detail and fit a can motor.

Also model imported by Aristocraft in 1959 followed by another imported by International in 1960 made by Akane

Westside Samhongsa DMIR M4 unpainted (Elesco or Worth FWH) with caboose   1980? model seems typical of early Samhongsa ie lot of detail but not always well made.

Tenshodo catalogue no 175 DMIR M3 #227 grey (Uncle Daves recently had a grey Tenshodo M3 #225) very small run maybe only 11  -  Model looks like an M4 to me..

Tenshodo catalogue no 173 DMIR M4 #232 black - again not a large run  maybe only 49   1983/1984  I have two #232 but BrassModelTrains Guide quotes #226 - the usual excellent workmanship and paint finish that one expects from Tenshodo

PSC Samhongsa M4 - orange box - coasting drive - working light - probably 150 produced in 1993 - incredible models with a lot of detail but need careful handling

15466-1 #230 Worth FWH black

15466-2 ?

15466-3 #230 Worth FWH grey

15468-1 ?

15468-2 ?

15468-3 #235 #236 Elesco FWH grey

Iron Horse Hobbies (Crown - in gold box) also Brother Brass - 125 produced in 1997?

17212-1 M3 #220 #221 #227       Worthington FWH black 7 produced?

17212-2 M3 #221 #222                Worthington FWH grey 20 produced?

17214-1 M3 #220 #226                Elesco FWH black 7 produced?

17214-2 M3 #224 #225  #227      Elesco FWH grey 23 produced?

17216-1 M4 #228 #230               Worth FWH black 4 produced?

17216-2 M4 #228 #232               Worth FWH grey 24 produced?

17218-1 M4 #233 #234 #236       Elesco FWH black 7 produced?

17218-2 M4 #233 to #237           Elesco FWH grey not more than 33 produced?

17218-3 M4 #236

re-run 2004 - I know nothing about this run and cannot compare with above models

17854-1 M3 #223 #227               Elesco FWH black

17854-2 M3 #224 #226               Elesco FWH grey

17856-1 M4 #235 #237               Elesco FWH black

17856-2 M4 #233 #236               Elesco FWH grey

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:04 PM

Dinwitty--

BIG BOY club????  With three of these big Hunkers, why should I NEED to, LOL?

Tom Tongue [:P]

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:19 AM
 twhite wrote:
 dinwitty wrote:

looking good, you gave it a cowlick.... :D

 

dinwitty--

Just had to show you.  Put Rio Grande L-140 #3911 through the paint shop last week. 

Okay, it's not Missabe, but I've already told you that, right?Blush [:I] According to my 'history', the Rio Grande bought 15.  That means I only need 12 more, LOL!

TomSmile [:)]

 

ready to join the Big Boy club? rofl 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Monday, May 12, 2008 11:10 PM
 dinwitty wrote:

looking good, you gave it a cowlick.... :D

 

dinwitty--

Just had to show you.  Put Rio Grande L-140 #3911 through the paint shop last week. 

Okay, it's not Missabe, but I've already told you that, right?Blush [:I] According to my 'history', the Rio Grande bought 15.  That means I only need 12 more, LOL!

TomSmile [:)]

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Monday, May 12, 2008 11:04 PM

MJ--

Congratulations on that incredibly beautiful PSC Yellowstone.  And I'm glad it's running as well as it looks--of course, being a PSC model, I wouldn't expect otherwise, their craftsmanship is just superb!  I was just thinking, LOL, that for the price of my three Akanes, I could just about AFFORD one of those exquisite PSC's.  Oh, well--

And now that you've lost your brass 'virginity', there's a whole world out there for you as far as hard-to-find models of locos you might want.  However, and let me WARN you about this--you just might find that you need to hone a lot of 'tinkering' skills with some of them.  With some brass models, it's the POTENTIAL in the locomotive, not necessarily what you take out of the box.  Brass is easy to work with, and because of its 'girth', it's notoriously forgiving.  I'm very proud of most of my brass locos, and I've had to 'tinker' with my share of them to get them to run the way I want, but it CAN be done, and the result is really satisfying.

And don't fall for the old and tired stories you might hear that we  who love brass just collect them and put them in cases to look at.  We RUN them.  They EARN that money we spend on them, by God!!

Tom Big Smile [:D] 

 

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Monday, May 12, 2008 10:42 PM

may have had an angledown somewhere in the metalwork, nothing a needlenose plier tweak couldnt fix. Mine is runing just fab.

The engines had an all weather cab, totally enclosed, for those frigid winters, even with a warm boiler you needed that.  Minus zero weather kicks into an open cab pretty quick.

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, May 2, 2008 9:29 AM
I'm gonna guess he means one of the tender steps was bent in a little bit and shorting on one of the trucks while going thru a turnout??
Stix
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • 318 posts
Posted by VAPEURCHAPELON on Friday, May 2, 2008 8:21 AM
 mj3200 wrote:

Tom,

I'm a few weeks into owning the PCM M4

Don't confuse PRECISION SCALE CO. with PCM. PCM stants for PRECISION CRAFT MODELS - founded around 2005, whereas PRECISION SCALE CO. is importing models since around 1980. Their initials are PSC.

Concerning possible problems on your model: make sure that all rods and valve gears don't bind and have the room they need also when the wheels take their full side play, check if all crankpin screws are tight - sometimes they are not! (as well as other screws) Make sure that that the drawbar screw is tight for reliable transport of current. See if the tender vestibule works freely and is properly insulated (because it touches the rear of the cab). Sometimes some pipe detail at the engine's rear or/ and the tender's front are long enough that they touch each other on curves. Then these should be shortened CAREFULLY. In some cases it may be sufficient to bend them to some degree.

One thing I wonder if I understand it right: -a tender step is that low that it contacts the rail ata turnouts? Could you post a photo?

There are several things one should look at on any brass model, especially on the more complex ones as the articulateds are. But when you do - and all is ok - you will have countless hours of pleasure with the model.

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 140 posts
Posted by mj3200 on Friday, May 2, 2008 7:02 AM

Tom,

I'm a few weeks into owning the PCM M4 now and after some teething troubles with shorts - notably the rear tender stairs were slightly bent and shorting on one set of turnouts. I am delighted with it. I have wanted a model of one of these since I saw one IRL in 1989. I can remember sitting in the cab and being amazed by how much room there was. I must look out a picture that I'm sure I still have somewhere.

The worrying thing is that now that my brass virginity is gone there are so many other lovely things out there to be had, and if one thinks how much a locomotive was in the 80's - from memory - whilst expensive they aren't really blindingly so. Roll on the Key Imports AC-9, oh and I'll have a 20th Century Hudson and.............

Again thanks to everyone for their advice.

Jonathan

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Thursday, May 1, 2008 11:44 PM

Dinwitty--

All 3 of them have 'cowlicks', LOL!  For some strange reason, I'm addicted to those Elesco 'bundle' Feedwater heaters instead of the Worthington.  Don't ask me why Blush [:I].  Actually, I think that the PSC 'oversized' Elescos are almost TOO oversized, but I kind of like the effect. 

Tom Smile [:)]

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:53 PM

looking good, you gave it a cowlick.... :D

 

That recording has #230 tugging 180 ore empties upgrade, in the background is a foghorn blasting off from time to time. The whole sound scene is totally awesome, #230 comes by double exhausting each stroke and doesnt skip a beat. For the only recording I experienced of this engine, its totally says what these beasts are all about.

Between this, O Winston Links recordings,  F. Lee Jaques artistic effects on a layout, I want my line to carry the dramatic effect to the fullest.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:36 PM

Dinwitty--

Don't you just love that 'steamboat' whistle?  One thing I noticed on my Missabe video--and I don't know if it's the sound quality of the recording or not--but those HUGE locos ran with a very soft, almost 'melodic' chuff.  I was surprised, because from their size, I expected all Heck to be breaking loose from their cylinders.  As far as I'm concerned, those big, beautiful ladies were the epitome of smooth-running articulated steam. 

Tom Tongue [:P]

Oh, BTW, here's a picture of my latest, the "Basket Case."  Still needs cosmetic work, but the mechanism runs so smooth and sweet that it amazes me for a 50+ year old model. 

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Thursday, May 1, 2008 3:38 PM

http://www.qtm.net/dinwitty/rr/DMIRclip.wav

I said I would post up an audio clip of one of these babies.

I know copyright laws, clips are allowable, full works not allowable.  Like any library.

Very short bit about a meg in size and a few seconds in length.

From the North Jersey Recording Fast Freight on the Nickel Plate. Has NKP and GTW also.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 1, 2008 8:57 AM
Did you find one of these? If not I have Akane for sale along with 3 ore dock and bunch of taconite cars.
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Friday, April 18, 2008 6:23 PM

My lubrication regal especially on steamers is usually this.

regardless, I always use plastic compatible, but I know my Winton 2-6-6-6 wouldnt need it, allll metal.

I get the gear grease on all gears, even brand new. A new engine may be "tight" in all its fittings and need running in to loosen up parts of friction binding and any manufacturing kinks.

Next I use regular oil on the motor and bearing joints. Then ALL siderod connections get a light oil lube even the pistons. Then also wheel bearings and if sprung drivers, grease on the slide bearings also. Tender fine also.

 Great looking engine there, you won't be dissapointed.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Friday, April 18, 2008 12:41 PM

MJ--

In a word--OHMYGAW!!  That is one incredibly handsome locomotive you've got there. 

As to lubrication--it's pretty simple.  All you need to do is remove the gear-box covers on the bottom of the locomotive, add a few drops of compatable gear grease (I use LaBelle #104), put the gearbox covers back on and run it in for about thirty minutes.  I usually do about 1/3 throttle.  You should have a pretty smooth running locomotive. 

Boy, that's a BEAUTY!!

Tom Bow [bow]

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • 140 posts
Posted by mj3200 on Friday, April 18, 2008 10:01 AM

Thanks for all the advice fellas. I decided to go for this PSM Crown copy. So here she is hot foot from Denver to the UK in 2 days! I have got to say I'm almost at a loss for words with the detail. By the bye what's the lubrication regime on this. It's my first brass so pardon my ignorance.

18042008165-1.jpg picture by 4472_bucket

18042008168.jpg picture by 4472_bucket

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Friday, April 11, 2008 4:58 PM

Just a thought....

2-8-8-4's were named "Yellowstones" by Northern Pacific, the first railroad to use them.

4-8-4's were named "Northerns" by Northern Pacific, the first railroad to use them.

Yet it appears there's no chance (outside of brass) of either of these engines ever being available as HO models. 20 version of UP Northerns, yes...and a dozen UP challengers...and (so far) a half-dozen SP 4-8-4 "Daylights". Banged Head [banghead]

 

Stix
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Friday, April 11, 2008 10:37 AM

GN--

Those photos--in a word, DROOL!Tongue [:P]

Yes, those old Akanes can be made into terrific running locos.  Glad you got yours resuscitated.  I popped a NWSL motor into my oldest one, and it glides along just beautifully.  I'll probably re-motor the other two this summer, though the older open-frame motors are doing okay (but I'm not DCC, mind you).  First thing I do with them is fit them with NWSL Universals between the first and second set of drivers--smooths them out on curves very nicely. 

Glad yours is no longer 'on the shelf'. 

Tom Smile [:)]

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!