I've checked the web but I may be leaving something unturned.
Does anyone have any tips for one of these in HO?
Thanks
Sorry,
Should have said I'd like to buy one.
I believe someone made one recently in brass.
Mj--
In HO scale, the last M3/4 that I recall is one imported by Precision Scale Models in Montana. Earlier runs of the locomotive were made in the 1960's by Akane, and though not as well-detailed as current brass models, they are sturdy and can be made into very good runners. I could be wrong on this, but I think that PFM imported a rather expensive "Crown" model of the same locomotive back in the early 1970's. I seem to remember seeing an ad for one when PFM was still an active importer. You might check with Caboose Hobbies in Denver, or www.Brasstrains.com, both of which carry large inventories of consignment brass.
Occasionally an old Akane will pop up on E-Bay. The PSC model would probably run you in the neighborhood of $1200--$1800, while used Akanes seem to run anywhere from $450 to about $750. Akanes seem to be the most prevelant models available of this loco, since they were a larger production run than the PSC.
Also, check your area for model railroad 'swap' meets. I picked up a used Akane Yellowstone several months ago for a very good price--needed work, but it was repairable. It's surprising what often turns up at these shows.
Good luck on your search--those handsome babies seem to be on almost EVERYONE'S wish-list, lately.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Ok, what is most important to you?
- excellent detail hands down above all other things
- relativly friendly price
- highest collectible status
If you want detail look for a PSC model. They brought it in the early 1990s, again in the mid-1990s, and again in 2003, but this time only the Elesco-equipped versions. Because the first one has been built by Samhongsa it usually is the most expensive of these three runs (>2000$).
Concerning the price you have the choice between the already mentioned Akane and a Westside model from around 1980. The Westside is somewhat more expensive than the Akane, but also more detailed (800$ - 950$). The Akane is a Japanese model, whereas the Westside is an early Korean Samhongsa model.
If you are looking for true collectible models then look for a 1959 or 1960 PFM/ Toby model. I have never see one of these, they are extremely rare, and although the very likely look very nice, they can't compare with the more recent models detailwise. But Tenshodo built this engine, too. First in 1983 the black one, and then in 1986 the grey one. The black one is much cheaper than the grey, although they are mechanically identical. Both Toby and Tenshodo were Japanese builders.
All the above came out of my head, I don't have my books on hand now, so the mentioned years may vary to some degree. Please excuse.
One thing to consider: -when I began with brass models I usually looked for the most detail - which usually means Korean models. But the Korean craftsmanship simply cannot compare to Japanese models. With time I developed some skills in soldering, and other, so I am able to upgrade older models myself. So if you don't care about EXTREME detail - or you are able to apply some details yourself - I would recommend either the Akane or the black Tenshodo model.
Thanks for the info Tom. I've tried both of those already without sucess, but one will come up sometime I'm sure.
I think they are on everone's list since you posted a pictuer of yours!!!
Jonathan
Jonathan--
Actually, I've got three of them--Akanes. One I bought new when they first came out, the other I got through a consignment brass shop and the latest--my "Basket Case" at the swap-meet. Vapeurchapelon is right--they're very sturdily put together, and if you're at all handy with either solder (or CA for that matter) both Cal-Scale and PSC make excellent detail castings.
Keep checking E-bay and consignment brass markets--I think that eventually you'll find one available. Another member of the Forum (Dinwitty) found one not too long ago, so they're out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Akane-DM-IR-2-8-8-4-Yellowstone-KDs-No-lighting_W0QQitemZ320235422429QQihZ011QQcategoryZ78178QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
one up on ebay now, paypal only
MJ---
BID ON IT!!!!!
If you don't, I'LL have to, LOL!
It seems to me just in the last year or so someone had an ad for a brass DMIR Yellowstone in one of the model railroad mags...but it might have been an N version??
According the Missabe Road Historical Society website, HO models of the 2-8-8-4 have been made by Akane, PFM, Westside and Precision Scale.
http://www.missabe.com/
You could maybe check with Carr's Hobby in Duluth, if anyone knows about them I would think they would:
http://www.cpinternet.com/~carrs/trains.htm
Stix--
Yes, that Yellowstone is N-scale, distributed by Benchmark Models in Ukiah, CA. And hoo-boy, is it a beauty! It's offered in both Worthington and Elesco versions (Akane only did the Worthington version, though I know that Westside and Precision Scale did both) and with each loco you get one of several styles of Missabe cabeese. Lucky N-scalers! If I were N-scale, I'd be throwing up a second morgtage just to get a decent fleet of the little ladies--really beautiful models.
There are currently two older Akane models on E-bay. One's being offered for a beginning bid of over $600, which from the condition description is pretty over-priced, IMO, then the one that is on the link above, which seems to be in better condition and is opening at $349, which to me seems eminently fair. Bids close on April 9th, so it should be interesting to see what happens. Frankly, this is the first time in YEARS that I've seen so many Yellowstones suddenly available.
Yo, BLI, Genesis, PCM, are you LISTENING?
twhite wrote:Stix--Yes, that Yellowstone is N-scale, distributed by Benchmark Models in Ukiah, CA. And hoo-boy, is it a beauty! It's offered in both Worthington and Elesco versions (Akane only did the Worthington version, though I know that Westside and Precision Scale did both) and with each loco you get one of several styles of Missabe cabeese. Lucky N-scalers! If I were N-scale, I'd be throwing up a second morgtage just to get a decent fleet of the little ladies--really beautiful models. There are currently two older Akane models on E-bay. One's being offered for a beginning bid of over $600, which from the condition description is pretty over-priced, IMO, then the one that is on the link above, which seems to be in better condition and is opening at $349, which to me seems eminently fair. Bids close on April 9th, so it should be interesting to see what happens. Frankly, this is the first time in YEARS that I've seen so many Yellowstones suddenly available. Yo, BLI, Genesis, PCM, are you LISTENING?Tom
I don't see the other one, theres an MTH O scale version up.
I won't be bidding on it, its all yours.
http://www.railwayshop.com/details/details77.html
I may have to just get this, their huge, powerful, and this ghostly whistle.
Dinwitty--
I've got that film on Video, and it's worth getting. Kind of short, but there's a lot of good action on it--a little fuzzy at times as far as detail, but it shows those Yellowstones to good advantage. Those ladies were really capable of tearing out when they wanted to--one pacing shot of one of them hauling empties shows that they were pretty much Speed Demons when they wanted to let out. I wouldn't be surprised if Baldwin built them to max out at 60mph or so. They certainly never look as if they're slogging with a heavy load.
There are also stills of the Yellowstones on the Rio Grande during the winters of WWII. They sure look at home in the Rockies, LOL!
PS: Zero bids on the E-bay model so far. But there's four days left, and I understand that E-bay bids start piling up at the last moment. I'm checking it out, just out of curiosity to see what the bids add up to.
T.
Thanks for all the tips fellas. After loads of emails I may be on to one to buy, although not the current ebay listing so if anybody wants to have a chew at that don't hold back on my account.
Out of curiosity, and as this would be my first foray into the brass world are they decent runners? And would they cope with 34" radius curves and #6 turnouts?
It looks like quite a few people are intrested in the M3/4 which is no surprise!
I recon that any of the big articulates made by PCM or the like would be a big seller, and as the Big Boy and H8 have been tackled, with I imagine commercial success, I would have thought this would be next in popularity with the exeption maybe of the AC12. Just my 2cents.
mj3200 wrote:Thanks for all the tips fellas. After loads of emails I may be on to one to buy, although not the current ebay listing so if anybody wants to have a chew at that don't hold back on my account.Out of curiosity, and as this would be my first foray into the brass world are they decent runners? And would they cope with 34" radius curves and #6 turnouts?It looks like quite a few people are intrested in the M3/4 which is no surprise!I recon that any of the big articulates made by PCM or the like would be a big seller, and as the Big Boy and H8 have been tackled, with I imagine commercial success, I would have thought this would be next in popularity with the exeption maybe of the AC12. Just my 2cents.
With some tweakage, I got mine to go aroound 22 inch radius, and my recent 15 inch radius test blew me away as it might like 15 if the track is smoothly laid. It may like 18 inch radius fine, however just better to run them 24 inch or higher.
Mine is running like a champ, its pulling anything I throw at it so far.
My little test track 22 inch loop has some rough track areas and it makes it over them fine like some of my other brass steamers and electrics don't like and even some diesels like my DD40 from Athearn, so if you get one of these guys, you'll be pleased as punch.
MIne is virtually new as it sat in a hobbyshop virtually untouched all these years. So its a brand new engine practically.
Number 6 turnouts should be a cinch, even number 5's, and don't be surprised if it likes a number 4.
mj--
Your Yellowstone will be happier than a clam with 34" radius and #6 turnouts. You'll have a little overhang on the curves, since those brass lokies are prototypically articulated (only the front set of drivers swing). I don't know about the PSC or Westside Yellowstones, but the Akanes have enough 'swing' in them to negotiate a 24" radius without any problems, and as Dinwitty said, he's gotten his down to a 22". Older brass locos tended to have looser tolerances than newer brass.
My minimum is 34", and all my articulateds take it with ease. You're safe, LOL!
If you're sure you're not going to bid for that E-bay one, I'll take a swing at it. FOUR Yellowstones, LOL? I need my head examined.
Fellas,
Sorry to keep asking for more info, but I've been offered a New in the Box PSC for $2,200.00. Is this way over the top?
It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00. Although there are no pictures of it.
Any opinions greatfully recieved.
mj3200 wrote:It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00.
It seems it by comparison to the Westside on Caboose for $1,125.00.
Don't compare these two. The PSC is MUCH better than the older WSM - and it's painted.
2200$ would be fair for the SAMHONGSA built PSC model. Ask if it actually is this one.
In 2003 PSC imported just one more run of these great engines, builder is unknown but everybody of my friends having both the Samhongsa and the newest say that qualitywise it is the same. I saw one running some months ago and it was beautyfully. And it has a little bit more detail, especially brake rodding.
MRSP of these last run PSC models was around $2300. BUT: About a year or so after delivery the well known shop THE CABOOSE put a larger number of them on ebay and they went away for about $1500. Probably because it was a larger number. Keep this in mind for the case the offering is the most recent model. Then perhaps you could get the price down somewhat.
MJ--
Let me chime in on the PSC model--it's the most beautiful model of the locomotive I've ever seen, period.
I've got one PSC loco--the Rio Grande F-81 2-10-2, and it's a quiet, smooth loco that runs like a Swiss watch and hauls like a team of oxen. Absolutely beautiful model, so with PSC you get quality, INCREDIBLE detail and great running characteristics. And PSC is a very fine company to deal with if you ever have any trouble with the product. They're a small, VERY customer-friendly company in Montana, so you can be assured of back-up.
As Vapeurchapelon said, the asking price is fair for a locomotive of this quality.
Keep us posted, okay?
The Yellowstone is one of those engines I keep expecting to be announced from a manufacturer any time now. The only problem is that BLI/PCM already has a lot announced, Athearn seems to like west coast engines, and Bachmann stick to the USRA stuff for the mist part. I wonder if MTH would do it, they have already released one in O scale.
Eric
Eric--
I wonder, too. I wouldn't wait for a BLI/PCM model as they're so backed up we could all be dead by the time one comes out, LOL! Judging from my Genesis Rio Grande 3800 4-6-6-4 and it's performance, I think Athearn could come up with a winner if they ever released a Yellowstone--and yes, decided to go a little further 'East' than they've been doing with their steam locos. And I've seen that O-scale MTH baby--it's a real honey. All they'd have to do is reduce the dies, I would think (they're also releasing O-gauge Z-series Challengers, and THAT loco wouldn't be bad to see in affordable HO, either). I understand that their Triplex is very satisfactory--also originally released in O--so they're not afraid to release the 'other' articulateds.
One argument I've heard is that there were only 18 Missabe Yellowstones built and that they only ran on a relatively small ore-hauling railroad in Minnesota. Not true, they spent as much time off of their home lines during WWII (Rio Grande, Northern Pacific, Great Northern and even rumored time on the Western Pacific) as they did on the Missabe. So they saw an awful lot of country during their lifetimes--a lot more than the more fabled UP Big Boys (of which only 25 were built, and saw most of their action in Utah and Wyoming and ONLY on UP). And if you add in the TOTAL number of locomotives built with the 2-8-8-4 wheel arrangement, including the ones built for Northern Pacific, Southern Pacific and Baltimore and Ohio, you come up with a LOT more 2-8-8-4's than you do 4-8-8-4's. They were pretty much all over the US from coast to coast.
And once a manufacturer decides to DO a 2-8-8-4 mechanism in HO, it would seem to me not to be a far stretch to manufacture different superstructures to put on it. Akane did it back in the '60's by releasing the same drive mechanism with two different boiler/cab configurations--the Missabe M-3/4 and the B&O EM-1. Of course, back then a lot of us modelers were a little more tolerant of things like this, even though both prototypes were built by Baldwin about the same time and shared a lot of common mechanical features (though the EM's were built with less TE). So it would appear to me that once the basic mechanism is produced, we could see Yellowstones for quite a few different railroads--certainly a 'mass-market' loco just waiting to be produced.
Frankly, even though I own 3 of the early Akanes--which I like,but have pretty much re-built from the ground up--I think it too bad that one of the most handsome and powerful articulateds ever built is STILL regulated to the expensive brass market. Yellowstones--any of them--deserve more popular exposure.
Just my thoughts.
On the subject of brass, i have no experience with the Akane's, but the ones imported by Westside (built i believe by Samhongsa) are beautiful engines and good runners.
On the subject of plastic...If SOMEONE would build a plastic 2-8-8-4, whether a DM&IR M3/4 class or a B&O EM-1, i think they would sell a boatload of them. If one was available in N scale i would be in for at least 6, and even in HO i would buy 1 or 2, for display if nothing else. I model B&O, but a M3/4 would be a much better starting point for a kitbash than the USRA 2-8-8-2s. I would be in line for bunches of any one of these. I can dream i suppose.
You have to wonder why they havent built one, it seems like the only major "large" articulated type a mainstream company hasnt done yet.
2-8-8-0
Amen to that. Like we HO'ers, there is an N-scale 2-8-8-4 available, but only in brass (the beautiful Benchmark model of the Missabe M-3/4) and pretty darned pricey. I think both HO and N scale could benefit from a well-made 'mass-market' model of these locos. It seems to be a widely ignored articulated wheel arrangement, especially when you consider that B&O alone had--what? 25 or so of these locos? SP had 10, Northern Pacific had at least that many--dang, so how come so many Big Boys, for instance?
BTW--the Akanes are all earlier brass than the Westsides, but with a little tweaking can be made into really fine runners. What they need more than anything is cosmetic detail updating, which is pretty easy to do with castings from PSC or Cal-Scale. I've got a couple of Westside articulateds (Rio Grande L-105 Challengers) and they're just lovely, powerful locos, and built like Sherman tanks, so I would assume that the M-3/4's would be just as good. Westside imported EXCEPTIONAL brass, IMO.
But like you, I'm ready to see a 2-8-8-4 in affordable ABS plastic in BOTH scales.
I suppose all we can do is keep writing the Mfgrs. SOMEONE'S got to listen, sometime, by golly!
PS: That's one SWEET looking cat in your Avatar!
FYI these are pictures of the unit, although the whole thing isn't finalised yet.
All this talk of $300 plastic in crisp detail is making me nervous!!
On the other hand you could wait forever.
I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432.
Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.
mj3200 wrote:FYI these are pictures of the unit, although the whole thing isn't finalised yet.All this talk of $300 plastic in crisp detail is making me nervous!!On the other hand you could wait forever.
Lookin' good, eh? Can't tell for sure, but I think this is the most recent run. PSC uses red boxes only since few years. If you could turn it around and find brake rodding then we can be sure.
Plastic models - as nice as they could be - just don't look like something like this...
mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.
It went for $455. Five dollars over my final bid, GRRRRR!!! Oh, well--I understand that the seller has a really fine reputation, so whoever got it, if they are willing to put in a few bucks extra for some newer super-detail castings, should have himself a pretty fine running loco.
To answer your question, when I bought my first Akane in 1964, it ran $109.00 MSRP. Pretty hefty for those times, especially when a lot of other brass was running between $50-85. My second Akane ran me $450 used about eight years ago from Peach Creek shops, and my latest ran me $225, simply because it needed a lot of rebuilding and it was a swap meet and the seller was a really NICE guy and we both knew from the condition of the loco (at that time) that it was a more than fair price. Just got in the PSC castings for it, and it's turning out to be a really handsome loco.
But that PSC in the red box looks like their latest run (same red box my 2-year old Rio Grande 2-10-2 came in), and from the photos, I'm really DROOLING!
Best of luck to you--that's just one HUNKER of a beautiful loco!
twhite wrote: mj3200 wrote: I noticed that that Alkane listed on Ebay just went for $432. Makes me ponder how much that would have cost when first bought.MJ--It went for $455. Five dollars over my final bid, GRRRRR!!! Oh, well--I understand that the seller has a really fine reputation, so whoever got it, if they are willing to put in a few bucks extra for some newer super-detail castings, should have himself a pretty fine running loco. To answer your question, when I bought my first Akane in 1964, it ran $109.00 MSRP. Pretty hefty for those times, especially when a lot of other brass was running between $50-85. My second Akane ran me $450 used about eight years ago from Peach Creek shops, and my latest ran me $225, simply because it needed a lot of rebuilding and it was a swap meet and the seller was a really NICE guy and we both knew from the condition of the loco (at that time) that it was a more than fair price. Just got in the PSC castings for it, and it's turning out to be a really handsome loco. But that PSC in the red box looks like their latest run (same red box my 2-year old Rio Grande 2-10-2 came in), and from the photos, I'm really DROOLING! Best of luck to you--that's just one HUNKER of a beautiful loco!Tom
give me your detail reccomendations to add from ps.