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Posted by bogp40 on Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:48 AM
 jktrains wrote:

Loathar,

The roof looks good.  A few things to think about.  What is the average width of the rolled roofing material?  Would that be correct?  16', 20' ? I don't know?  To go along with what CSX was saying, on a flat roof there are usually low spots in which water puddles, maybe you could add a pit of high gloss in a spot to simulate this?  Perhaps even some Future floor polish would work since it is a high gloss acrylic.

Traditional rolled roofing (which most are modeling) comes in 36". It is usually lapped 3-4" minimum. Seams would vary especially at the last 2 coarses if that cap sheet wasn't cut for width. Almost every other coarse would be pieced unless the building was exactly 25,50 or 100 ft long (the roll length), thus producing mid seams as not to waste the product.

I must add that in the era we tend to model 40-50s most urban flat roofs were tar and gravel. These roofs had an enormous life span. I have seen some that are 60+ years old and still doing their job. Rolled roofing would be more common on out buildings, small warehouses etc or if the reroof was done on the cheap. The life of a rolled roof (older asphalt was about 25-30 years), newer products and fiberglas sometimes barely last 10-15 years. Rubber so far has outperformed them all and cost the most $$$.

Newer commercial (glass capped, since about the mid 70s) still is generally 3', however I have seen wider material although not as common.

Rubber roofing is commonly 10 ft wide and 20 ft available for larger commercial installations.

Hope this info helps.

Other newer rolled roofing, double coverage is 36" wide but it is lapped at about 20-22". Most of this is fiberglas based similar to the glass cap.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by MrKLUKE on Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:04 PM

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Posted by saronaterry on Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:01 PM

Hi guys! First time, be gentle!Wink [;)] More for the models as I'm still learning the digital camera stuff! Have at it!

I need to do a little more detailing, and the backdrop needs work!

Terry in NW Wisconsin

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Posted by OzarkBelt on Monday, February 25, 2008 9:55 AM

Here's a weathered PRR box car:

take it easy on me!

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

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Posted by OzarkBelt on Monday, February 25, 2008 9:55 AM

Here's a weathered PRR box car:

take it easy on me!

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, February 25, 2008 10:12 AM

Ozark,

Since this is a "feedback" forum, I'll go ahead and offer mine, which you may take or leave:

Positives:  I love the chalk markings to the left of the door; typical of the steam and early diesel era as cars were routed at hump yards.  Also, the rust on the trucks looks good.

Could use more work:  The lighter rust colors on the car look a bit thick and haphazard as well as too light in color.  My suggestion is, if possible, to use a bit of brush cleaner to try to remove a bit of it (be very careful not to remove the factory paint beneath!).  Successive thinned washes of a darker rust color (I like Railroad Tie Brown, per Jim Six) will help because the wash will settle along the rivet lines and door track just like real water, and will "rust" accordingly.  Also the vertical rust streaks to the right of the door would probably look better if they were more horizontal (scrapes from opening/closing the door).

There are lots of photos around of PRR Merchandise Service cars...  I have PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vols. 2 & 3.  I weathered my Merchandise Service X29 using a photo in one of those books.

One reason so many of the hardcore weather-ers (is that a word?) use very specific photos of very specific cars as a guide is because weathering is so easy to over- or underdo.

Anyway, looks like you're on your way.  My overall suggestion is to thin out your washes and apply in layers rather than all at once.

Good luck!!!  Oh, and great choice of car.  Of all of the Pennsy's freight car schemes, MS (Merchandise Service) is myfavorite.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Driline on Monday, February 25, 2008 11:15 AM
 saronaterry wrote:

Hi guys! First time, be gentle!Wink [;)] More for the models as I'm still learning the digital camera stuff! Have at it!

I need to do a little more detailing, and the backdrop needs work!

I really like that scene. The road weathering is top notch. Post away!

Modeling the Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern 1995 in HO
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Posted by OzarkBelt on Monday, February 25, 2008 11:39 AM
Dave, thanks for your help. actually, my weathering wasn't a wash, but dry brushed acrylic.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

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Posted by Blue Flamer on Monday, February 25, 2008 11:44 AM
 loathar wrote:

I need help and I figure this is the thread to get an honest opinion.Big Smile [:D] I'm trying to do roll roofing and my results are leaving me kind of flat. I used masking tape painted with some asphalt color and some darker paint for tar lines on the seams. I like the texture, but I'm not overly happy with the total look. Any suggestions? (hopefully this fits in with this thread)


 

loathar.

That is a good looking building. The only problem that I see is that the tarpaper strips are to wide and are running in the wrong direction.

Our previous home was a 100+ year old semi-detached house in downtown Toronto, Canada. It had a peaked asphalt shingled roof over the front 25% of the house running parrallel to the street and the rear 75% of the roof was flat and it was about 4" to 5" higher down the centre of the flat part so that water ran to both edges of the roof to the eaves.

When we had to have the roof re-done after about 40+ years from the previous roofing, they stripped off the old roofing to the wood and used 40" wide roll roofing that was overlapped every 10" to give 4 layers of paper and they ran it the length of the roof, not width-wise. When they came to the end of a roll, they just overlapped and sealed the end and carried on with a fresh roll. After all four layers were on, they then mopped on HOT TAR that was quite thick and then spread what was called PEA GRAVEL over it about 1/2" thick and it mostly settled down into the tar but left a good layer of loose gravel on top. As the name suggests, the gravel was about 1/4" in diameter like a large pea and for the most part, quite smooth.

We also had an old wooden garage off the back laneway that had a tar-papered slopeing roof from front to back. It was only overlapped twice but was a thicker covering and the edges were sealed with tar on each layer. There was no tar OR gravel put on the roof and the paper was rolled on lengthwise also and joined at the end of the rolls and sealed.

I saw a number of similar roofs in the neighbourhood done the same way.

I hope that this information is of use to anyone contemplating doing a flat roof.

No offence is intended in any way and none will be taken with anyones differing opinions or ideas. This is just my

My 2 cents [2c]

from my own experience.

Good modelling to all.

Blue Flamer. 

"There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"." Dave Barry, Syndicated Columnist. "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." Doctor Who.
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Posted by loathar on Monday, February 25, 2008 2:39 PM

Thanks for the tips all! I see I screwed up on the width. I tried to do 6' rolls but now see they only sell 3'.Banged Head [banghead] I put a couple more coats of grey on and it took some of the texture out and toned down the tar lines. Looks better now. I've got details to add and weathering to do, I just wanted to get the base color right first.

Blue Flamer-Wrong direction? Really? I just figured it would go with the down slope of the roof like shingles do. Learn something new every day.Smile [:)]

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Posted by rs2mike on Monday, February 25, 2008 5:36 PM

just finished this today.  camera is old and i need practice.  But this is my first attempt at a scene so i thought i would post.  It is on a 12 in wide shelf by 3-4 in deep if that. 



alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)

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Posted by bogp40 on Monday, February 25, 2008 5:44 PM
 loathar wrote:

Thanks for the tips all! I see I screwed up on the width. I tried to do 6' rolls but now see they only sell 3'.Banged Head [banghead] I put a couple more coats of grey on and it took some of the texture out and toned down the tar lines. Looks better now. I've got details to add and weathering to do, I just wanted to get the base color right first.

Blue Flamer-Wrong direction? Really? I just figured it would go with the down slope of the roof like shingles do. Learn something new every day.Smile [:)]

Loather, you got the roofing direction right, just have the sections too wide.

Blue flamer, at first I thought the roofing was the wrong direction until I noticed the pitch to the rear. You can see the slight pitch on the mansard in the pic.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by Blue Flamer on Monday, February 25, 2008 11:20 PM
 loathar wrote:


Blue Flamer-Wrong direction? Really? I just figured it would go with the down slope of the roof like shingles do. Learn something new every day.Smile [:)]

loathar.

You are correct in that assumption. If you visualize a shingled roof, rainwater runs down the roof from the higher elevation and drops off the overlapping shingle to the lower shingle. That was basically the way that they did the flat roof. They started at the eaves (the lowest part of the roof) along the side of the house and worked up to the 4" to 5" high peak down the centre of the two houses and overlapped the previous row of tarpaper as they went. The only difference between this roof and the shingled roof is that due to it being basically flat, they slopped hot tar all over it and covered it with the Pea Gravel for protection.

I hope that I have helped a little and not added to your confusion. I may have been born in England, but that was 68 years ago and my grasp of the language sometimes eludes me in my senior years. But, I still keep trying.  Sigh [sigh]

All the best.

Blue Flamer. 

"There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"." Dave Barry, Syndicated Columnist. "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." Doctor Who.
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Posted by Blue Flamer on Monday, February 25, 2008 11:33 PM
 bogp40 wrote:
 loathar wrote:

Thanks for the tips all! I see I screwed up on the width. I tried to do 6' rolls but now see they only sell 3'.Banged Head [banghead] I put a couple more coats of grey on and it took some of the texture out and toned down the tar lines. Looks better now. I've got details to add and weathering to do, I just wanted to get the base color right first.

Blue Flamer-Wrong direction? Really? I just figured it would go with the down slope of the roof like shingles do. Learn something new every day.Smile [:)]

Loather, you got the roofing direction right, just have the sections too wide.

Blue flamer, at first I thought the roofing was the wrong direction until I noticed the pitch to the rear. You can see the slight pitch on the mansard in the pic.

loathar & bogp40

If this is the case, please accept my apologies. These old eyes use Tri-Focals to see with and to be honest, even after you told me this, I still can't see the pitch on the roof.

It's a good thing that I only use these glasses to drive and to see with and not for anything real important.  Cool [8D]

Blue Flamer. 

 

"There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"." Dave Barry, Syndicated Columnist. "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." Doctor Who.
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Posted by OzarkBelt on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:02 AM

Here's a scene I'm rather fond of:

Enjoy Big Smile [:D]

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

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Posted by jktrains on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:10 AM

Mike,

In the second picture the foliage looks a little close to the track and might cause a clearance problem.  Also (or all so) turn off the flash.  It causes that washed out effect in the pic.  Keep practicing, its the only way to get better.  As someone suggested, take notes, bracket your exposures and experiment some.  The nice thing about digital photography is that you can see the results right away and know what works or doesn't work and the is no wasted film.  If the picture lloks bad, delete it and learn from it.

jktrains

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Posted by wm3798 on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:45 AM
 OzarkBelt wrote:

Here's a scene I'm rather fond of:

Enjoy Big Smile [:D]

I like the color scheme and weathering on the station, although I hope the painters didn't get paid for those dormers...  The one on the left looks great, but you need to finish touching up the other two.  Also, the green car looks "plastic" compared to the other two vehicles...

And Darth Vader usually raises his right hand before he kills you with a thought, not the leftBig Smile [:D]

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by PASMITH on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:46 AM





Peter Smith, Memphis
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Posted by Driline on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:25 AM

 PASMITH wrote:





Peter Smith, Memphis

Two Words. Museum Quality. Nuf said Thumbs Up [tup]

Modeling the Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern 1995 in HO
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Posted by loathar on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:33 AM
 wm3798 wrote:
 OzarkBelt wrote:

Here's a scene I'm rather fond of:

Enjoy Big Smile [:D]

I like the color scheme and weathering on the station, although I hope the painters didn't get paid for those dormers...  The one on the left looks great, but you need to finish touching up the other two.  Also, the green car looks "plastic" compared to the other two vehicles...

And Darth Vader usually raises his right hand before he kills you with a thought, not the leftBig Smile [:D]

Lee 

Same exact things I was gonna say. Maybe a bit more white paint around the door jams. They look a little too bare.(is that Darth or a cigar store Indian?Laugh [(-D])

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Posted by loathar on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:39 AM

 PASMITH wrote:





Peter Smith, Memphis

I wouldn't have the nerve to begin to critique THAT!!Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

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Posted by rs2mike on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:39 AM
 jktrains wrote:

Mike,

In the second picture the foliage looks a little close to the track and might cause a clearance problem.  Also (or all so) turn off the flash.  It causes that washed out effect in the pic.  Keep practicing, its the only way to get better.  As someone suggested, take notes, bracket your exposures and experiment some.  The nice thing about digital photography is that you can see the results right away and know what works or doesn't work and the is no wasted film.  If the picture lloks bad, delete it and learn from it.

jktrains

  Thanks jerry.  I too noticed the foilage being to close after i took the pic from that angle.  I will have to dig a little to find out how to do the exposure thing not sure if the book was still around.  It was my wifes way before we got married.  I also noticed the flash.  I had a 100 watt bulb in a polished hanging shield thingy and thought that would be enough light.  This camera also auto focuses so i will have to figure out how to stop that as well.  How is the ballasting job or the general look of the foilage?

alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)

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Posted by saronaterry on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:52 AM

I need some trees, yet:

Terry

Terry in NW Wisconsin

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Posted by jktrains on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:33 PM

Not meaing to pile on, but a few things stand out.

  • The green plastic car should go.  I see a CB&Q F unit in the background, so time frame would be would be 50's thru mid 60's.  There are a lot of nice motor max cars that fit that time frame for around $3-$4 apiece.  They would improve the scene significantly.
  • Touch up the door/window frames and the trim separating the blue from the white of the building.
  • Add a concrete(styrene) pad at the base of the steps and a walkway to separate it from the parking area.
  • The weathering on the roof looks pretty good.
  • Oh yea - get rid of Darth Vader.  1977, maybe; 1950's - no way.
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Posted by Maurice on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:15 AM

Loathar-> 1st, thank you and the others for posting your work. I am learning much from reading people's techniques and suggestions. Your roof looked pretty good to me, but I don't think I have ever seen an actual roof like that, so I am not sure what it should look like. I know they exist. I am going to start looking for prototype roof photos. What color(s) did you use? Others have covered the paper width issues and the need for vent pipes and a roof hatch, so the only other thing I could add would be soot on the chimmney. Keep up the good work.

Maurice 

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Posted by CSX_road_slug on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:02 AM

Ozark - here's a tip on improving that green car: First paint all the wheels in a flat version of grimy black or dark gray, then paint flat aluminum 'hubcaps' in the centers.  Perhaps some silver where the headlights should be...

 loathar wrote:
... Need to make the rust a bit more random. The rust streaks coming off the roof supports all look the same. The black lettering needs to be more faded looking maybe with some black/grey streaks washing down below the letters. ...

Loathar,

I did (or at least tried) 2 of your 3 suggestions: Making the roof rust streaks seem more random, and fading the black lettering and logo.  Haven't quite got around to doing the white streaks yet. But here is what she looks like now:

Prototype:  http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures%5C28762%5CCSXT_201582.JPG

 

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

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Posted by loathar on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 4:27 PM

CSX_road_slug -Yeah. That's better. I'd still fade the logos A LOT more. I just saw a whole string of hoppers like that in a yard and you could hardly read the lettering. The reporting marks looked like they had been redone, but the logos were almost non existent.
This is a crappy shot, but it's all I could get. They did all have logos on them. That's how faded they were. You can barely see the reporting marks in this pic.

Edit-Sorry! I just saw your prototype pic.Dunce [D)]I didn't realize that's what you were going for.
Nailed it!Smile [:)]

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Posted by jktrains on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:27 PM

CSX_road_slug,

Nicely done on the weathering.  The rusting along the bottom of the car came out good.  One last suggestion, give a nice thin coat of dullcoat to takedown the glare some and give a good flat finish like the prototype pic.

jktrains

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Posted by OzarkBelt on Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:36 AM
 loathar wrote:
 wm3798 wrote:
 OzarkBelt wrote:

Here's a scene I'm rather fond of:

Enjoy Big Smile [:D]

I like the color scheme and weathering on the station, although I hope the painters didn't get paid for those dormers...  The one on the left looks great, but you need to finish touching up the other two.  Also, the green car looks "plastic" compared to the other two vehicles...

And Darth Vader usually raises his right hand before he kills you with a thought, not the leftBig Smile [:D]

Lee 

Same exact things I was gonna say. Maybe a bit more white paint around the door jams. They look a little too bare.(is that Darth or a cigar store Indian?Laugh [(-D])

Thanks for your critique. I better get working. You have to admit, Darth Vader in HO is pretty cool.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

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Posted by Driline on Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:24 PM

MY 1,000th POST! This  MAKES ME A SUPER Model Railroad Genius with ALL THE ANSWERS!

I now submit my PERFECT FLAWLESS LAYOUT FOR ALL YOU LITTLE PEOPLE OUT THERE STRIVING TO BE PERFECT LIKE ME BUT ALAS WILL NEVER ATTAIN MY SUPERIORITY.

Modeling the Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern 1995 in HO

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