I think the earlier Tyco was fine for what it was, particularly the Mantua-built steamers, but Tyco really gave themselves a black eye with the "Powertorque" pancake motor trucks in the mid 70's, which were irredeemable garbage. The motor bearings didn't hold enough oil, yet there was no way to keep oil off of the brushes and commutator. The gearing was so flimsy that it usually stripped, assuming the armature didn't smoke first. They stand as a monument to cheap 70's design.
I think many model railroaders still have flashbacks of pulling their hair out over those locos (I know I do), as opposed to the fonder memories of toy trains like Lionel and AF. Once I discovered Athearn, I didn't look back.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Actually there are some that collect and use the older Tyco and AHM stuff.
You may enjoy this site.
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ill wager a lot of the hate stems from the fact a lot of their later offering were pure junk , while that in itself is not so much a sin, i think the fact they were sold to so many people in cheap train set means a lot of people got exposed to a lot of junk and as such were turned off by the hobby. Like you i cant say i had tremendously bad experience with Tyco stuff but compared to similar product at the time or even today, they were always bottom of the barrel quality wise.
i guess another part of the hate stems from the fact a lot of people try to hawk them on ebay or train show and hike up the price because its "antique" or "vintage". to some poor unsuspecting newbie, that might be a indication of worth ( i.e: "wow that engine must be good , that seller wants 50$ for it" )
just my 2 cents
I don't think people hate Tyco (or Life Like or Bachmann, or whatever), but they just dislike it from a quality perspective. It is fine for what it is - entry-level inexpensive equipment that gets people engaged in the hobby. These people otherwise would probably not ever get started in model railroading. However, once someone gets "into" the hobby a bit, and starts to learn more about the better quality (i.e. better motors, higher detail, etc) stuff out there, they realize their old Tyco stuff no longer cuts the mustard.
I have moved beyond the train set stage and am working on my first semi-permanent serious attempt at a layout. I've bought P2K locos and have built Accurail and now Branchline kits, and will never go back. I'll never get another Tyco or cheap Bachmann or LL item, because I have graduated from that phase of my modeling.
But it puts a smile on my face when I see those inexpensive train sets in the store because I know that that's how I got my start, and somewhere out there, the next great model railroader is going to get his/her start by buying that Tyco train set.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
"Hate" is a strong word. I don't hate Tyco or their products. But I do dislike them. I know they have driven people from the hobby due to their cruddy performance.
The only thing good about them was their price. Everything else was junky. 4-wheel pick up, plastic wheels, rubber tires, brass wheels, large flanges, 3-pole pancake motors, no flywheels, truck mounted couplers, cookout in the cab lighting, lightning fast starts, poor low speed performance, inaccurate body dimensions, "sewer pipe" handrails, bogus paint schemes, etc. If you made a list of everything that's desirable in an HO locomotive, a Tyco is just about the opposite of all of them (except price).
The others you mention were/are in the same boat. AHM is gone, but they were, in many cases, worse than Tyco. Bachmann at least now has a couple of quality lines that are lighyears ahead of the 1980's junk they still sell. Rivarossi has "seen the light" and over the last 10 years or so retooled their line of steamers with RP25 wheels, can motors, etc. Life-Like (ther other major junk brand) is now owned by Walthers, and makes several lines of quality products (some of which are very high quality). LL still makes their 1980's stuff, too.
Look, I had Tyco/Bachmann/Lilfe-Like/AHM models as a kid. I grew up with them as my father has been a model railroader since Truman was President. I have no positive feelings toward any of that junk that I used to play with. I like my dad's old Lionel collection, I like my mom's Marx trains (yes, she had model trains as a kid, too). But that "Silver Streak" Century I used to own? That Chattanooga steam engine with the smoke unit and tender drive? That AHM RS-2 that literally dropped drive parts as it went down the tracks? I don't miss them at all. All I remember is how often they didn't work & how often they derailed. Not good memories...
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid). Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963. After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.
Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!
-Phil
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I guess I'm one of the weird ones.
I actually like Tyco,and all the others mentioned.
Carl T.
shayfan84325 wrote:On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid). Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963. After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!-Phil
That 1963 F-7 had the 5 pole power truck, which will last forever. Unfortunately, the mid-70's design probably drove more kids from the hobby than not.
I had an AHM RS-2 that cooked its armature after about a week. I had a lot of fun with the C-Liners, though. I still remember how they roared and shook the benchwork because of that huge lead weight over the power truck.
In a way I owe a debt to all of that cheap stuff, because that's how I became so good at fixing things.
I remember Christmas of 1975 when one of my gifts was an HO Tyco set. It was a Santa Fe yard switcher and several cars. I think it lasted all of two months before it died on me, but then I ran the "you know what" out of it too...
Tracklayer
shayfan84325 wrote: Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!
I wish I had! It may very well have been the Tyco diesel switcher, or one of its ancestors. All I remember now is that it was a four-wheel industrial switcher--lettered ATSF, I believe. This would have been in the late 1960s, and I don't recall it as a particularly bad runner. To my childish eyes, it was the height of prototypical realism.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
TYCO - Trains You Cant Operate
All kidding aside, Tyco's original products carried over from the Mantua days were functional and for the most part, ran OK with routine maintenance. I had a Mantua/TYCO GP-20 in the early 1970's and it was such a unit. But later diesel offerings, circa 1975 had the same motor they used in their slot cars mounted upright in the front truck. The truck had rubber tires on one side of each powered axle. The locomotives were light, traction was poor, motors were noisy and the lamp they used drew LOTS of current and were hot.
My brother and I received the 1776 Bicentennial train set with the Century 420 ALCO unit (which was supposed to mimic the SCL U36B) for Christmas and on my brother's unit the lamp ultimately melted the cab roof from the heat. The units had motor problems due to the poor design; and would require constant work to sustain operation.
Similiar things can be said for Life Like locos during that time frame. My first HO scale locomotive was a LL RS11 in D&H colors (1972). It was built in Yugoslavia and had a single powered truck with a vertical open frame motor. On day one it ran forward and backward with no issues, on day two I could run it backward but not forward, day three it died. After several attempts to revive it (I was a kid, and neither my family or friends were technically inclined) I sought advise from a local hobby shop. I was told to forget it and buy an Athearn locomotive. I bought an ALCO PA1 and it ran great! It saved my interest in the hobby.
Two years later I tried Life Like again - this time I bought the ALCO Century 415 locomotive. As with the RS11 due to the same construction, I ran poorly then quit.
I know now why I had trouble with them. They lubricated the motors with graphite! The graphite from the upper motor bearing would leak down onto the commutator and short the motor! Also the brush arms did not make good contact and caused poor operation.
Those of us with these experiences do not miss those products. I was away from the hobby during the 80's and 90's and when I restarted found Life Like turned things around with the Proto 2000 line of locomotives. Mantua eventually separated from TYCO and produced operational steam locomotives for a period.
Ebay has created a collectible market for old TYCO, LL, Bachmann, Varney, etc. Buy them to collect for sentimental reasons if you choose, but don't expect modern loco performance.
Carl in Florida - - - - - - - - - - We need an HO Amtrak SDP40F and GE U36B oh wait- We GOT THEM!
I got started in Model Railroading back in the '60's and Tyco quickly became my favorite. At that time, the diesel locomotives were gear driven, had good pulling power, ran reliably. In comparison at that time, Athearn was rubber band drive and seemed to run at speeds not compatable with train set 18 inch radius curves. AHM/Rivarossi was well detailed, but had the deep flanges and were so light they only pulled a few cars. Tyco cars were made with a die cast metal underframe that gave them weight and kept it low for good tracking. I still have quite a few of these on my layout, have modified the locomotives (cosmetically) but they still use the original power truck that Tyco called the MU-2. They were good technology for the time and reasonably priced. With periodic cleaning and VERY light lubrication, these things seem to run forever.
In the '70's, when Tyco was bought out by Consolidated Foods, they moved production from Woodbur Heights, NJ to overseas and the design and quality went downhill fast. Unfortunately, this is the Tyco that most people remember.
It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else. At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted. That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.
The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
The Tycos I remember didnt stay on track more than three loops.
One in particular got tossed into the trashcan after derailing while coupled to any kind of train.
The behavior exhibited by these units were not acceptable to one who was in a world where Brass, can motors, creeping operation etc were king.
Tyco make me quit hobby, Athearn's Blue Boxes saved it for me.
That was long ago and a different life. And a wasted one at that.
I suppose there is a little bit of thought to the Tyco once in a while wondering if they would have done much better with the trackwork I can put down now Im not even going to venture there and follow up on that path.
I had a lifelike trainset with the open frame single truck motor that racked up 20 years of service and then some. Compared to Tyco, Lifelike was a superior product.
Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I hate Tyco, and all the old Life-Like and B-mann junk. And that is what it was - junk. They knew how to build better, but they didn't want to bother. It was 99% inaccurate and poorly designed. Screw the kids or whoever else bought them after they got their money.
And please spare me the nostalgic retorts. We put a man on the moon in the '60s. THE '60s ! So don't tell me they didn't know any better. I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter. Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.
And, I am not the least bit ashamed I hate them. I am proud I am smart enough to hate them, because they deserved it.
Railphotog wrote: It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else. At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted. That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.
I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge Today
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
I have some fond memories of my 1971 Tyco set. As I recall the U.P. 4-6-2 ran pretty well, a friend of mine had a 2-8-2 and a couple of other engines and we used to run trains together. Tyco originally was just meant to be RTR Mantua (originally all Mantua engines were kits). Mantua for years was one of the better HO train manufacturers.
The big failing of those train sets was the brass rail track, if they had nickel silver it would have a big difference for me; after a couple of years of trying to keep track clean I gave up and switched to Lionel O for 15 years, eventually coming back to HO c.1988.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
There really are three (or more) Tycos, and it is unfortunate that the "hate" for the worst Tyco gets carried over to the better Tyco.
Initially, Tyco meant nothing more than ready to run versions of Mantua steam engines and cars. They were high-end train set quality, durable and worth the money, and modelers who progressed from train sets to real scale model railroading could still run the Tyco stuff without shame. One problem for the scale modeler was that Mantua/Tyco used an entirely proprietary type of freight car truck mounting.
Then came a line of Tyco that was not taken from Mantua. There was some OK stuff in that line. They had a nice 50' flat car with a separate deck that looked like wood that in many respects was one of the better plastic flatcars available for many years. The Tyco gondola, which was not the same as the Mantua gondola, has been the subject of advanced kitbashing articles.
They gradually cheapened the line more and more with chrome plated engines, etc. It was meant to be (and priced to be) played with and thrown away.
A Tyco F7 from the early 1960s, or a Tyco metal Pacific or Mikado or 0-6-0 would be a decent piece of equipment. Their phony GG-1? Lowest end train set.
Dave Nelson
Toyco is what we called it. Tyco was more toy than model. Athearn and Roundhouse were the top of the line back then. Remember Revell? They had some model trains as well as the plastic models.
AHM was a sensation when the SP Cab Forward could be had for $25. Athearn had the HI-F drive with the rubberbands that either broke or slipped and stops were an interesting sight.
Most of the motors were a three pole truck mounted thing that would barely pull the locomotive much less a train of any length.
Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.
Just a couple of memories of the "Good Ol' Days"
Virginian wrote: And please spare me the nostalgic retorts. We put a man on the moon in the '60s. THE '60s ! So don't tell me they didn't know any better. I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter. Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.
V:
Marklin was just a leetle more expensive than TYCO was. Don't you think that might have been part of it? If you want a comparison, try the Lima locos with the pancake motors.
Before CF, Mantua-Tyco wasn't just adequate stuff, it was very good. Mantua was a huge innovator in the 1950s and 1960s. Did you know that the early Booster had a plastic frame? It didn't stick around, but it does show how Mantua was always ready to try something new.
Even under CF, Tyco had some good points. The PT truck wasn't good, no. The rolling stock wasn't bad. Some cars actually looked nice, like the flatcar. The 40' box and 40' tank were in some ways superior to their Athearn counterparts, especially the tank car. The Tyco snap-in trucks with metal axles roll better than most trainset trucks, too, and even the one-piece couplers seem more reliable than some (which isn't saying a whole lot, I know.)
As some on the Tyco forum have pointed out, Tyco knew how to build a set, adding accessories and little extras to make it more fun. They also had "themed" sets, where other manufacturers still tend to just throw together some cars and assign a random name like "Golden Rails". Very few manufacturers in HO offered so many operating accessories.
I do think some people were turned off by the running quality, but at the same time I have to wonder if these people would ever have Experienced Trains at all if there wasn't inexpensive stuff like Tyco around. I doubt I'd ever have had my first set if everything available had the quality and corresponding price of Marklin. My set was, in fact, a Tyco Golden Eagle, and no, it didn't run extremely well, but I'm still here, right?
Could be, but you couldn't GIVE me one in place of a newer car!
Tycos were TOYS, not model trains.
Hi,
I certainly don't "hate" Tyco or any other MR company, but can say that Tyco represents the "toy" image of model railroading that most of us sophisticated modelers abhore. We want our hobby and us to be taken seriously, and the Tyco image doesn't promote that. In contrast, Athearn - the Athearn of the 60s and 70s - promoted "realism" and quality performance in a low priced format. Hence, they became a major force in the industry.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mr. SP wrote: Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.
Mr. SP:
That's weird - I have two Tyco Plymouths and they can both run slowly if you don't advance th throttle to warp speed. You have to keep the wheels clean, and it helps to run them in for a while. They have the usual MU-2 droning sound.
Running in can do a lot for any old loco. I have a Life-like sidewinder F that cost me virtually nothing. It was a little cranky when I acquired it, and I'm not a huge diseasel fan, but it ran fine at top speed, so I cleaned the brass wheels and used it to pull the track cleaning car. This involves continuous running at almost full speed for an hour or so. After a lot of that, the thing will now run along steadily throttled down to 10-30 smph (and probably slower than that; I haven't really checked). It doesn't exactly creep, and it does make gear noise, but for what it is...not bad.
For me, I don't hate Tyco. I think it's just that I've outgrown it. Looking back at the Tyco stuff I used to have, it was basically toy trains, which I've outgrown. As I've gotten older, I wanted more realism in my trains, not something that speeds around a circle or figure 8 at the speed of sound. Granted, Tyco, for me, brings back good memories of my childhood when I was getting into trains. Before Tyco, I had (and still have), my Lionel. It was Tyco that got me started in HO scale.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
mobilman,
I agree with you completely. I have a sentimental fondness for my 1963 F7, but it operates far from realistically. It has a very high starting speed (wheelies may be possible) and it only picks up power from 4 of the 8 wheels. The paint is so-so. I can't even say it got me started in the hobby.
I remember in the '70s that TYCO was hardly ever mentioned in articles; you see it in ads, but they were the "economy" hobby dealers' ads. I dismissed it as toylike and my F7 resided in a storage box for 30 years. I got it out when my wife asked about setting up a train to run around the Christmas tree. I was happy to have a toy train to accommodate her (she thought it was sweet that it was the same engine and cars that I got for Christmas as a child. It spends most of its time in a box, making an appearance at Christmas.
Is the company still in business?
It's not still in business...Model Power bought the parent Mantua line a few years ago (around 2000 IIRC) and now make some RTR "Mantua Classic" engines and cars.
One thing about Tyco in the seventies is it was available in many places. Department stores and such that wouldn't carry upper end train stuff would carry Tyco so it was sometimes just more accessible to people - especially if they weren't regular hobby shop customers.
I have fond memories of my first 4x8 layout, running a Tyco 10 wheeler and a Tyco prairie with brass Atlas track and Atlas buidlings. It was a lot of fun. I was hooked on the hobby. I added some MDC cars, built a LaBelle flatcar, and built a Bowser K4. And so it goes.
Enjoy
Paul
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Have fun with your trains
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most brands of trains run like crap in the 60's-70's?? Even brass?? Unless you spent hours tuning them to run right?
I know as a kid I didn't even know the difference in brand quality. I just bought the stuff that looked cool. I could have cared less if they were prototypical or not.Gotta LUV that detail!They actually had pretty crisp paint jobs on them.
Hate? That's a strong word. Lets just call it a lack of Love for the Product.
To sum it up, the brass track that came with the sets sealed the deal.
loathar wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most brands of trains run like crap in the 60's-70's?? Even brass?? Unless you spent hours tuning them to run right?
You are probably right. I modeled in N scale in the '70s and I was frequently frustrated at the unreliable performance and zero to sixty in milliseconds acceleration. I remember talking to HO modelers who were frustrated with performance, too. The advent of transistor throttles helped a bunch (I still use one of these), but I think you're right: in that era, manufacturers put less emphasis on operation and more on visual appeal.
From what I've seen, both facets get equal emphasis these days. We have better motors and better gears to go with great looking models, and DCC has opened a bunch of new doors. Even the best that TYCO ever offered would not have survived in today's model railroad market. I do think TYCO contributed to the good of the hobby for a while, but they failed to keep pace and fell by the wayside. It's the way that business mirrors nature - the creatures/businesses who can't adapt go extinct.
I cannot remember the date but I was about 14 at the time the 2-8-0 choo choo came out, It had smoke and a bridge and tresle with the set. It included a bottle of oil for the smoke unit in the loco and the tiny pancake motor in the tender. Got it for Christmas in the 70's, I already had some AHM, and the older 8 wheel drive Bachmann's that seemmed like they could do stump pulling and the first Atlas GP series. But this was the first steamer I owned. The motor lasted about 2 days pulling the five cars on my 4 by 8 layout, smoke unit worked great though. Guess I should not have put the bridge and tresle up on my grass mat.
The AHM C-Liners were great, they did make allot of low bass noise, that was the built in sound unit, it was neat. LOL!
I never hated the older cheaper stuff it had its ups and downs, but it was fun.
I'm running my Tyco Santa Fe GP20 right now on my Unitrak floor layout!
Tyco's Operating Hopper Cars are still a big favorite and often bring as much as $20
each on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Tyco-Red-Box-Operating-Hoppers-C-O-B-M-Monon_W0QQitemZ130188796357QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19140QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Railphotog wrote:[quote user="C&O Fan"] I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge TodayCould be, but you couldn't GIVE me one in place of a newer car!Tycos were TOYS, not model trains.
Bob,With what those 56 Chevs are bringing you can buy several brass engines.Some of those old 50 era jalopy's bring mega bucks even in poor condition and far more then today's high price junkers will bring use in 7-10 years.
I had a TYCO/Mantua 4-6-0 and that was a very smooth runner..
cmarchan wrote:Two years later I tried Life Like again - this time I bought the ALCO Century 415 locomotive. As with the RS11 due to the same construction, I ran poorly then quit.I know now why I had trouble with them. They lubricated the motors with graphite! The graphite from the upper motor bearing would leak down onto the commutator and short the motor! Also the brush arms did not make good contact and caused poor operation.
What you probably saw was brush dust. Those motors were famous for grinding their brushes down due to the crude commutator. That dust can accumulate in the gaps and cause shorts.
The Consolidated Foods era is what generated so much antipathy for Tyco. I actually had good luck with my Chattanooga; it ran for several years, but then I wasn't running it on carpet. My worst experience was when I bought a Tyco Pacific in '76 with every penny I had to my name at the time. CF had seen fit to eliminate the brass driver axle bearings, and the resulting slop was so bad that the loco actually lurched side-to-side, and couldn't get the traction those heavy Mantuas were known for. It was a complete disaster, and soured me on Mantua until I discovered the reason years later. I even had a friend give me his because he had the same issues.
I can completely understand CF's decision though, since those 4 tiny brass channels must have cost a mint to produce, and they only sacrificed the running characteristics of a good basic loco in the process. Something to consider if you're thinking of buying an old Mantua steamer - stay away from the brown box-era Tycos.
Maybe this thread should be titled "Why does everyone hate Consolidated Foods so much?"
I did a search for TYCO under HO trains and got 1012 items for sale. Most of those items were inexpensive so for those who want TYCO, bid now because now is the time.
And why does anyone want to know what we think of TYCO. Is this a test???
Dave Vollmer wrote:
Is anyone else getting tired of this magazine's spam advertising?
PB-J RR wrote:As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others... As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO... Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.
As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others...
As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO...
Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...
I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.
Yes. My thoughts exactly. As a kid my Tyco stuff was KING! It worked well for me then and some of it is still working just fine today. It's a curious thing...
I see many guys suggesting that TYCO was responsible for "driving" many people away from the hobby. I guess my experience was unusual in that TYCO started what has become a love affair with trains and model railroading. For that reason alone TYCO will always have a place on my layout and in my heart.
Tyco was cool back when I was a little kid but so were any other trains. I would say Tyco makes an "ok" toy train but I would never classify tyco trains as model railroads. Tyco seemed more like sort of a fantasy type train sets. Tyco made toys and their trains were no more.
Back durring high school I built a model railyard for a seinor project. Tyco rail cars, turnouts, assesories, ect worked great... However they only worked great because I was not leaving my nice models out for the general student population to drop and break. Tyco does nothing for me these days. The only Tyco trains that get to grace my layout are Union 76 tank cars and even they are tucked away in a whole mess of tank cars on siddings.
TG3 LOOK ! LISTEN ! LIVE ! Remember the 3.
I'd like to see Atlas or Athearn or BLI make a glow in the dark Turbo Train that can run up and down a verticle wall!!Beyond the scale speed of sound!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U63hHDbw_E8And it even came with a Dare Devil jump!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YngIuQoBRIsAnd just who DIDN'T want a Choo Choo!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHHnNT7h8ICome on! THOSE were COOL!!!
I feel that TYCO had some very nice HO toy train freight cars in the 1960's and 1970's such as the silver Virginian (NS) quad hopper and the green Western Maryland (CSX) skid flatcar with pipes or tractors, but their HO Chattanooga 2-8-0 steam locomotive does not match or come close to any prototype paint schemes. I also feel that the TYCO locomotives are not as good of quality to operate such as those made by Athearn or Walthers.
A cheap, small Tyco train set that I bought for my son 30 years ago started me off in the Hobby. After the hook was set, I moved on to more expensive stuff.
I still have the engine and it still brings a smile to my face.
TYCOs offerings were just another phase of model railroading, the locos didn't run particularly well, but that was the ''phase'' the hobby was in, can anybody say that the Athearn rubber band drive locos were superb runners? nope. So although Athearn might have been superior to TYCO, it wasn't always so wonderful.
I have a couple TYCO locos that run ok, but I did a lot of tweaking and cleaning, they don't run as well as a Spectrum or a new Athearn for sure, but for their time theres nothing wrong with them.
The TYCO buildings and rolling stock are still very good, even by todays standards. The building kit molds and freight car molds are still in use and are great sellers, and if you want to go with super detail, they provide a good starting point.
The people who ''hate'' TYCO generally hate anything thats considered ''low priced'', to them spending a small fortune on something is a badge of honor and provides what they consider ''bragging rights'', thats fine, if you have the money to spend on high priced stuff, by all means go for it!
I don't particularly care for TYCO locos, too much time needed for maintenance and tweaking. I do, however, like the building kits and some of the rolling stock. I have heard a lot of talk about ''old'' equipment, TYCO, Bachmann,Athearn,Mantua and Life-Like, they all had problems, but so do a goodly amount of these new models out, bad decoders,motors that seize up after a few hours, bad wiring, what will people say 20 or 30 yrs from now about that ''junk'' they had in 2008?
Nostalgia aside, most of the older stuff will run ok, if you want to invest time into making it run like you want it to. But with the market flooded with moderately priced Bachmann,Athearn and Life-Like equipment, you might be better off relegating that old stuff to the siding. Unless you really like working on it, then by all means, run it! and have fun doing it!!
baberuth73 wrote: By the way, a scale model locomotive is a TOY, maybe a rich man's toy, but still a toy ( unless you get paid to run it ).
Babe,
I've got to differ with you on that last statement. Here's the Mirriam-Webster Definition of toy:
1 obsolete a: flirtatious or seductive behavior b: pastime; also : a sportive or amusing act : antic 2 a: something (as a preoccupation) that is paltry or trifling b: a literary or musical trifle or diversion c: trinket bauble 3: something for a child to play with 4: something diminutive; especially : a diminutive animal (as of a small breed or variety) 5: something that can be toyed with 6 Scottish : a headdress of linen or woolen hanging down over the shoulders and formerly worn by old women of the lower classes
I'm not insulted when someone refers to our hobby with such references (sticks and stones...), but for us to refer to our fairly sophisticated models as toys is really inappropriate and inaccurate. Since TYCO products fit #3 fairly well, I'd say the definition is correct for TYCO; it does not fit my brass locos or hand built wooden structures.
Back to the topic. TYCO products were what they were. They are no longer manufactured, I presume that's because they lost their place in the market - most likely because the quality of their products was insufficient, or something else caused customers to shop the competition. The same thing happened to Nash/Rambler/American Motors, BSA motorcycles, Norton motorcycles and other noteworthy (but now gone) companies.
It seems like wasted energy to hate TYCO now that they are no longer in business. They paid the ultimate price for their misjudgment. What more can be said?
My first scale trains were a Tyco set in 1969 or 70. It had a GP-20 loco with a power truck that looked a lot like the later PFM "Spud" (if anyone remembers those). Probably didn't run nearly as well as the Spud, but it did OK for a 15 YO new to the hobby. In fact, I still have that power truck! It sits in my junk box. Maybe I'll try to fire it up and see what happens!! The rest of the loco is long gone, though.
(I traded my old early 60s-era Lionel plastic set, and my dad's WWII vintage Lionel set, for the Tyco set. The guy I traded it to knew he was ripping me off big time in terms of relative dollar value, I think, but I didn't know that at the time, and in terms of what that scale beginning has done for me throughout my life, it was an OK deal. Still, he could have been decent about it and made a fair trade... but I digress).
I think the loco was a Santa Fe, but I might be wrong about that. I remember I wanted to have my own freelanced paint scheme, so I spray painted the shell this godawful mint green color, from a hardware store-purchased can (i.e., not hobby paint)! Barely any detail left to be seen (and there few enough to start with!). But it was mine, and I had a LOT of fun with it.
When I got my first Athearn a couple of years later, the Tyco became a relic that almost never ran again. Whatever happened to the shell I don't remember - probably threw it out when I left the hobby (and sold nearly everything) for a time in college.
I forgot how much I enjoyed that old clunky-running Tyco. Maybe I don't really dislike them as much as I've come to think I do!
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I too had Tyco's in my youth - the Lionel I started out with in 1970s was too expensive for a teenager's budget 10 years later, so I bought HO. Had two of the GP20s. They didn't run all that well at first - off or lightspeed - but the problem was the powerpacks, not the locos. A good powerpack made them run well - no smoking engines or cab-melting headlamps.
You did have to keep the carpet fibres out of them.
It is curious that so many people responding have criticised the track - I still have a fair bit of late 70s Tyco brass track and I use it regularly, setting up a loop of track to entertain my four-year-old. Occasionally a spot of black crud appears (easily wiped off) but overall it is of better quality than the Atlas brass track of the same era that I also have a loop of. Perhaps the fact that the Tyco track is all marked 'made in Austria' makes a difference? I no longer have the Tyco GP20s, but the 'four wheel pick-up, four wheel drive' 1970s Model Power F9 works just fine on the Tyco brass track, as do more modern locomotives. Oh, and that Model Power F9 pulls a number of unmodified Tyco freight cars without derailments. Now I know why I kept them - the four year old enjoys 'running trains' and my more expensive models are kept out of his little fingers (he managed to mangle the door on an Athearn blue box once when my back was turned....)
well i read the first few responses or so and most say the quality was bad. while that is true.... I look back on my childhood trains (most of which I still have) with fond memories. It's that now I understand why my tyco gp 20 (the late durango version) or gp 38 (sante fe) usually stalled through a switch.
keep in mind i didn't know there was anything else beyond tyco LL bachmann until i stopped into a LHS and discovered Athearn. I asked if they were good runners and the owner replied they were the best. I bought my first Athearn loco (gp 40 BN) right then and when I got it home I was in awe!
so I can't say I hate the old tyco stuff I'm just dissappointed I can't run it with the quaility stuff.
EDIT: hey steamage!
I just took a look at your site about converting tyco cars... NICE JOB. I've been working on about 10 of those hoppers to make em stone cars for our club's railroad... but I have 3 of those same flat cars you show!
I have a Tyco Amtrak set of 3 coaches and F7 from a disowned friend. The cars still work, they have a paper people windows with a backlight. But I recall the engine making an attempt at 2 inches before giving up, partially because the only thing attaching the truck to the body were wires to the headlight. for not having a chassis, it wasn't bad. And the shell may live on.
Ironically, I had to take them out of the boxes beacuse the boxes were deteriorating around them.
-Morgan
-
My first, too.
I sort of super detailed one of those 0-4-0s. I epoxied brass detail castings to it and added the appropriate plumbing, Kadee couplers, and painted it. It looked pretty good. With a transistor throttle, it ran pretty well, too. I really think the power packs were as much to blame as the locos for the performance issues.
Time to lighten up and let this deceased company rest in peace.
shayfan84325 wrote: Time to lighten up and let this deceased company rest in peace.-Phil
Ummm...Tyco's not deceased. They just quit making train stuff. Do a Google and see all the toy, medical and industrial stuff they still make. And their old CEO is still sitting in Federal prison...
That's two different Tyco's if I remember right.....Tyco of toy train is now owned by Mattel and makes R/C and slot cars...but no trains.
The CEO in jail is a different Tyco........
Great Western Rwy fan wrote:One word........JUNK
yup that pretty much sums it up.
Looks like some one still loves Tyco
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130188796357
Over 30 bids from 4 different people
PBandJ RR wrote:As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others... As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO... Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
CO Fan wrote:Looks like some one still loves Tycohttp://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130188796357Over 30 bids from 4 different people
Those operating hoppers were nice because they were made in the pre-Consolidated Foods era. They were very free-rolling for the time, and had RP25 flanges. The underframes and hopper doors were diecast. I built up a Renwal coaling station years ago that was designed to operate with these cars. The function was always a little bit dicey, but then operating accessories like that are better left to O scale.
There seems to be quite a demand for the old Ulrich diecast operating hoppers as well.
Yes Nelson they do run quite well
I have 8 of them and i use them to haul live loads from the mine
to my Walthers coaling tower
I installed one of their operating tracks in the coaling shed and cut a hole
in the bench work so the cars empty into a coffee can below
Some think it's too toy like but i have fun with it !
_________________________________________________________________
BECAUSE we now have things that are better.
TRANSLATION: At one time TYCO was 'good' - until you tried something else. - OR
Bought them because they were cheap, and wanted a challenge.
SteamFreak wrote:This is kind of a funny thought, but I always disliked even the earliest Tyco diesels because they didn't have a frame. They were just trucks and a weight snapped into a shell, with those ugly locking tabs protruding through sides. The F7's in particular just didn't have much substance, so I always felt like I was running a locomotive skeleton. It seems even funnier when you realize that you could hammer nails with their steamers.
SteamFreak
I think your comment , "you could hammer nails with their steamers" really does hit the nail on the head. I don't hate TYCO, just ignoring their products and always have.
Darth Santa Fe wrote:I don't hate Tyco. In fact, I actually have fun taking poor quality stuff and making it work better. I may even look for the dreaded Power-Torque 2-8-0 at an upcoming train show and see what I can do with it.
Wanna play with some of my stuff? I have a ton of old Tyco stuff you can rebuild......
PASMITH wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I don't hate Tyco. In fact, I actually have fun taking poor quality stuff and making it work better. I may even look for the dreaded Power-Torque 2-8-0 at an upcoming train show and see what I can do with it.I'm with you. I have purchased two Tyco 4-8-0's on e-bay. I am using them as a base for kit bashing SP's 4-8-0 1890's Mastodon TW-2 so I don't have to scratch build or buy brass. I have already re-motored one of them with a Yard Bird drop in motor and I am now in the process of scratching a whale back tender over an IHC tender frame with all wheel electrical pickup. So far, in tests, it is running like a charm. I will post pictures when I am done. If you read this post Andre, the prototype can be found on page 51 of Signor's SP Shasta division.Peter Smith, Memphis
I've got his earlier version( "Rails In The Shadow Of Mt. Shasta" ). OTOH, I do have a nice copy of Dunscomb's "A Century Of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives".
I'm wondering if a Mantua/Tyco mechanism could be mated with an MDC Harriman boiler to make a TW-8.
Andre
andrechapelon wrote: PASMITH wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote:I don't hate Tyco. In fact, I actually have fun taking poor quality stuff and making it work better. I may even look for the dreaded Power-Torque 2-8-0 at an upcoming train show and see what I can do with it.I'm with you. I have purchased two Tyco 4-8-0's on e-bay. I am using them as a base for kit bashing SP's 4-8-0 1890's Mastodon TW-2 so I don't have to scratch build or buy brass. I have already re-motored one of them with a Yard Bird drop in motor and I am now in the process of scratching a whale back tender over an IHC tender frame with all wheel electrical pickup. So far, in tests, it is running like a charm. I will post pictures when I am done. If you read this post Andre, the prototype can be found on page 51 of Signor's SP Shasta division.Peter Smith, MemphisI've got his earlier version( "Rails In The Shadow Of Mt. Shasta" ). OTOH, I do have a nice copy of Dunscomb's "A Century Of Southern Pacific Steam Locomotives". I'm wondering if a Mantua/Tyco mechanism could be mated with an MDC Harriman boiler to make a TW-8.Andre
When I started collecting trains in the 1970's I bought what I could find and a lot of it was Tyco. Over time I discovered that Tyco, as well as Bachmann and Life Like, cars didn't stay on the track as well as other more expensive brands (the more you pay for something the better it is, right?) I got a weight chart from NMRA and replaced a lot of plastic wheel sets with metal sets, weighted the rolling stock to just below the weight standards. Now my "cheap stuff" runs just a good as the "expensive stuff". Now when a piece of rolling derails I have to look closely to see what brand it is. And I'm very happy ;with the performance of my Tyco trains. As for motor issues if the engine can't pull X number of cars, I don't try to pull more.
shayfan84325I can almost feel the TYCO prices climbing on eBay.
1960's Tyco/ Mantua was a quality product. Well made, free rolling, the horn hook couplers actually functioned properly. My 1969 Gp20 was the backbone of my first 2 layouts. It still runs.
And, I am currently setting up a display track for all my old trains, and the many I have accumulated. Tyco was great early on, yet cheapened in later years, with diminished quality.
Tyco is to poor detail as Rapido is to good detail.
There.
I have saved you from reading 3 pages of posts from 15 years ago.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy Tyco is to poor detail as Rapido is to good detail. There. I have saved you from reading 3 pages of posts from 15 years ago.
Exactly, but it was intended from the start to be durable starter product to introduce teens and adults to the hobby.
While the original versions were well made, it was a fine example of how to make a quality product at a low price with simple design and high levels of common parts from item to item.
As a teen, the first hobby shop I worked in was an aurthorized repair station for MANTUA/TYCO, LIONEL, and AHM. We also had a good stock of Athearn parts and did all sorts of repairs.
You learned quickly how the Mantua steam locos all shared a long list of parts, as did the freight cars.
For what it was intended to be, it was a good product for the market at that time. But even then, not something more advanced modelers were running unless they used it for kitbash fodder.
Sheldon
My Tyco rolling stock goes back to the 1960s. A tank car, a few box cars, and a parade of those operating clamshell hopper cars which I've carried around through 30 years of moves. Slowly, I removed the horn-hooks and the coupler brackets from the Talgo trucks, and drilled and tapped the frames for new Kadees. Later on, the Talgos disappeared, to be replaced with new trucks and Intermountain metal wheelsets. The old rolling stock now runs better than ever.
No, I don't hate my Tycos at all. They are, by now, old friends of 60 years. Blessed with today's trackwork and the patience of an old man like me to get it right, these are not junk at all, but smooth-running and attractive models that are actually a credit to my layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
(I like it when someone dredges up these old, old threads.)
I think Mr. Beasley said it very, very well and I quote....
"They are, by now, old friends.". Flawless statement!
Put me down as, in opposition to the haters of TyCo. To whom, in the truest sportsman-like competition..... I wave the Tyco Flag....
IN YOUR FACE!
Clear Ahead
PMR
But it does remind me of that great Bob Seger song, Like a Rock.
20 years now, where'd they go?20 years, I don't knowI sit and I wonder sometimesWhere they've gone
Rich
Alton Junction
Made me think of Conway Twitty's "Fifteen Years Ago"....
"Fifteen years ago, and I still feel the same...."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB5V7AUYIkw&t=11s
It’s only make believe.
Since somebody has decided to resurrect this zombie thread, I'll throw in my two cents. As people get more experienced in the hobby, they become more knowledgeable about quality. Generally speaking, trainsets are at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of quality because they are entry level designed to get people into the hobby. Tyco and Model Power were mostly of that quality. I had a Tyco Amtrak set with about 3 or four cars pulled by an F-7. The paint scheme was non prototypical and the lighted cars had sillouhetted passengers. My also bought about a dozen Tyco UP hopper cars with yellow plastic bodies with red lettering. I had no idea at the time how unprototypical those were. Eventually I become more discerning about things such as this.
The Tyco brand name was bought and sold several times and the quality of the brand suffered as a result. When I entered the hobby in the late 1970s, it was pretty much entry level stuff. Nothing a serious modeler would be interested in.
John-NYBW Since somebody has decided to resurrect this zombie thread, I'll throw in my two cents. As people get more experienced in the hobby, they become more knowledgeable about quality. Generally speaking, trainsets are at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of quality because they are entry level designed to get people into the hobby. Tyco and Model Power were mostly of that quality. I had a Tyco Amtrak set with about 3 or four cars pulled by an F-7. The paint scheme was non prototypical and the lighted cars had sillouhetted passengers. My also bought about a dozen Tyco UP hopper cars with yellow plastic bodies with red lettering. I had no idea at the time how unprototypical those were. Eventually I become more discerning about things such as this. The Tyco brand name was bought and sold several times and the quality of the brand suffered as a result. When I entered the hobby in the late 1970s, it was pretty much entry level stuff. Nothing a serious modeler would be interested in.
In both cases (Tyco and Model Power), it really depends on the product. As mentioned by others, when Tyco took over Mantua, there were some good loco kits offered. The problem is that quality just went downhill from the early 70s on, including the engine kits inherited from Mantua, and the company targetted the low-end youth market. Contrary to Life-Like and Bachmann, Tyco never changed its marketing strategy and died when most kids lost interest in trains.
Model Power was a different beast. They imported from various manufacturers, some good, some bad, some very good. Their N scale 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 were made in Korea, and were excellent. In the early 70s, they imported locos made by Roco, again excellent engines (but low in detail). But they also imported toy-quality engines that were only half a notch above Tyco.
Simon
TYCO (TYler CO.)was a decent brand when it was owned by the Tyler family that also owned Mantua- TYCO in the 60s was basically assembled Mantua product. The printing was mediocre, the detail was bare minimum, but they ran well. It changed when the Tylers sold TYCO to Consolidated Foods (the brown box era), who were more interested in selling them as multi-colored, mass-market toys. This began the era of the mega-sized tank cars that would derail at sharp curves, the gaudy paint jobs, and crappy electric motors and drives.
AHM and Model Power were basically importers of model train equipment under their own packaging. AHM seem to have better overseas manufacturers-Rivarossi and Lima and Pocher from Italy, Pola from Germany. Model Power's stuff wasn't as good-mostly imports from Mehano in Yugoslavia and Frateschi in Brazil. Both had more Asian made replacements by the late 70s/80s when importing from Europe was increasingly expensive.
OK John we get it.
But when you say "quality" to me, my first thought is build quality, are the wheels round?, do the parts fit together and work as designed and expected?, does the engine run reasonably smooth?, is it reasonably durable for the intended use?
As train sets of that era go, TYCO was good quality.
Prototype accuracy is not "quality", that is a feature.
A model can be perfectly "accurate" and run like cr....., that is not quality.
And then you go and use that dreaded phrase, "serious modeler". What exactly makes someone a serious modeler?
Am I not a serious modeler because I still run Athearn blue box equipment? Or because I will not replace all my old models with "better stuff"? I will go one better, I still run Athearn metal cars, and Varney metal cars from the 50's. Guess I need to turn in my "serious modeler" card because I am not replacing all that stuff with high end stuff made for me by little china girls.
I have no dog in this fight, I don't really have any old Mantua/Tyco stuff.
But in its day, it had its place in the market, and it was one of the better products in that entry level part of the market.
maxman It’s only make believe.
No.1 song on the Billboard pop/rock charts the week I was born, before Conway 'went country' in the sixties.
My memory re Mantua / Tyco matches what Azrail said - Mantua was an earlier model railroad company, mainly making kits (John Allen's G&D included a Mantua 2-8-2) and I guess pre-Kadee many modellers used their couplers. Tyco came later as RTR versions of the Mantua steam loco kits. Over time they stopped using the Mantua name, and Tyco devolved into toy train HO stuff.
The Mantua name resurfaced in the 1980s, and some of the stuff from the 1980s-90s, like the 4-4-2, were really pretty nice - especially when they switched to Sagami can motors.
I too had a handful of Tyco as a youth, would have been late-60s early 70s vintage. Later, when I had kids of my own, I bought a small set off eBay to see if they would be interested. I'm glad I did - not because my kids had any interest, but because it brought me back into the hobby. The set was headed by Mantua-Tyco C-630, a solid runner.
Although I no longer run much HO (yes, I still have the set and a small layout), what I most enjoyed about Tyco was the operating accessories - Post Office car, etc. Great stuff and they were affordable and FUN. Trains weren't so prototypical and finely detailed but neither was Lionel through the '40s, so there!
Cheap but fun - what more do you REALLY need?
It's a shame that Tyco got such a bad name later on, the Tyco/ Mantua trains were actually very well made. They ran well. Not scale models, but they very closely followed the example of Lionel, and American Flyer even down to the artwork on the box. They were somewhat like a smaller version of these. And the operating accessories. I had a very positive experience in the '60's.
I like 'em!
I have a "mixed bag" of feelings towards Tyco.
My first exposure to Tyco was in 1975. I got the Bicentennial train set.for Christmas. I do not remember all the cars that came with it. But, I do remember it came with a flat car loaded with concrete pipe. I later got the operating un-loading dock, and a few more flat cars full of pipe.
They were FUN !
I then found Athern cars in a local hobby shop, and started adding them to the layout ( along with a handful of Tyco buildings : Miracle furniture, Honest Sam's used car lot, Standard Electric, gruesome casket, ect.)
After about 2 years, the engine gave out , by then I had found Athern and Roundhouse locomotives.
It was then that I realized ... Tyco was Toylike. I pretty much got rid of most of my Tyco stuff by 1981.
HOWEVER: I kept the Tyco gondolas. With a little work, they can be very accurate, and run well.
Their flatcars required more work to make them look right, and I never bothered. Better kits were available to me by then.
I wish I had kept the buildings.
You can still find some of them, now labeled as Wathers Cornerstone series.
Overall, I can't really say Tyco was garbage.
But, I can't give them "kudos" for being accurate.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
Tyco is back like that box under the table at the trains show that will not go away..... I started as a kid in the brown box era with a tyco trainset. We had to send the Loco back once for replacement when it was still under warranty which was only 90 days I think. The transformer fared slightly better lasting a couple of years before going up in a puff of smoke that made the whole house smell like burning tires for a day and a half. (Got in trouble for that somehow) The neighbor kid did have the earlier old west Tyco which was of better quality and lasted longer. One swap meet (Enid OK???) had a Tyco toss for several years. In retrospect one of Tycos biggest issues was their open gearing that was prone to cracking and over lubrication that attracted carpet fibers and dirt. Saw a couple brought in to the hobby dept I worked in in high school and college that you could pull a whole Persian cat out of.
Little TimmyI kept the Tyco gondolas. With a little work, they can be very accurate, and run well.
Yes... absolutely.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
Little TimmyI wish I had kept the buildings. You can still find some of them, now labeled as Wathers Cornerstone series.
Not Cornerstone, Walthers Trainline.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Ah, yes.
I stand corrected.
Walthers Trainline.
( sorry about that.... 50 years of glue fumes will do that ...)
Little TimmyWalthers Trainline.
This example is interesting, to me anyway...
The classic Tyco version is wood with a wooden dock, but the Walthers Trainline version is brick with a concrete dock.
Oher than the building material represented, the buildings look identical.
The freight house had been offered in a brick before as well as the wood. Some of these kits passed through so many hands. I think it might have been AHM that first offered these in brick?? AHM offered some of these roughly at the same time as Tyco and kept them going after they exited.
Some threads ought to just die off. Why did anyone bother to respond or generate discussion. Never had Tyco but refuse to waste time/money on replacing horn-hook couplers, etc. IMHO, such cars are not RTR.
You have to go back to the Mantua era with Tyco to get the better stuff. There was a huge difference in quality. The later stuff doesn't stay running for very long....
You have to go back to 1960's production.....
kasskabooseWhy did anyone bother to respond or generate discussion.
Because the topic is still valid.
Some people hate Tyco, and some people have fond memories. Some people want to recreate them, only in a better running version. Some people want to forget about them.
I like my Tyco cars with Kadee trucks and couplers.
With just a bit of work, you can run a memory with reliability.
I like to have fun with my model trains, and sometimes it is fun to pretend to be a kid again.
kasskaboose Some threads ought to just die off. Why did anyone bother to respond or generate discussion. Never had Tyco but refuse to waste time/money on replacing horn-hook couplers, etc. IMHO, such cars are not RTR.
SeeYou190 kasskaboose Why did anyone bother to respond or generate discussion. Because the topic is still valid. Some people hate Tyco, and some people have fond memories. Some people want to recreate them, only in a better running version. Some people want to forget about them. I like my Tyco cars with Kadee trucks and couplers. -Photograph by Kevin Parson With just a bit of work, you can run a memory with reliability. -Photograph by Kevin Parson I like to have fun with my model trains, and sometimes it is fun to pretend to be a kid again. -Kevin
kasskaboose Why did anyone bother to respond or generate discussion.
I have 2 large cardboard boxes of old trains I am trying to work in, here or there....
My dad traded in his well worn, actually worn out, Lionel train set to Lewis K. English Sr. at English's Model RR Supply (now Bowser) in 1972 or 1973. He got me the Mantua Tyco Santa Fe freight set with the red and silver C430 (painted in the scheme of the actual U28CG units). The Lionel train set went into Mr. English's ultimately $1,000,000+ collection. That HO set got me hooked on HO trains. So far as Tyco dying--maybe the Power Torque crappy drives only lasted a year or two--but with proper maintenance, we got 10 to 15 really good years out of the Mantua Tyco locos made in Woodbury Heights, NJ (not to be confused with the Power Torque later Tyco crap from Hong Kong). In fact only one power truck ever actually died, after two or three replacement sets of brushes. All the other Mantua Tyco diesels and steam power were still operable when I was in my 20's (actually even after many years of storage, the surviving steamers were still operable recently). They all ran ok as long as they were run fairly often. They ran basically fine after nearly 30 years of storage at Dad's house.
I have so many good memories of playing with those trains with Dad and my sister.
Later on I moved into Athearn, then Atlas, Stewart, and Kato diesels. In my 20's I either gave away or threw away the Mantua Tyco diesels (I had done some not so good paint jobs into NYS&W yellow and black, and I didn't want to remember them that way). All the steam engines had been well played with; we got our money's worth out of all those trains.
The memories are better in my mind than the cosmetic condition of some of the steam engines after nearly 50 years, so I just retained the one trolley to remember my childhood trains.
To this day whenever I see Illinois Central Gulf orange and white diesels in photos or as models, it takes me right back to my childhood and specifically the time period from about Christmas, 1975, to 1983 or so when I was really into Illinois Central Gulf trains, before I got into more prototypical railroad modeling.
In hindsight I never should have gone the "more prototypical" route of this hobby, because I was absolutely the happiest with the ICG and Santa Fe trains of my youth, before I knew that Alcos didn't actually do so well for Class 1 railroads and before I tried to fit Alcos into rosters where they most certainly didn't fit in real life. Now I've gone back to Illinois Central but with the correct locos that they did have, including also the late black Deathstar diesel paint scheme.
The intervening years from 1983 or so to 2023 were quite a railroad journey, and I am thankful to the folks in Woodbury Heights, NJ, for the Mantua Tyco trains that started it all. I don't hate them; they served their time quite well. I just have some better IC/ICG stuff now such that I wouldn't buy Tyco off ebay.
I literally spent so much time with the train layout that Dad built with a little help from Susan and me that I have a complete photographic memory of it in my head that can be replayed whenever I wish to see it. Those were good years.
The freight house was first issued as an Atlas product...It was made in Germany by Pola, who had a version under its label.
The Pola kits went under a number of importers....Atlas, Life Like, Tyco, AHM, and now Walthers!
In my opinion, it's because some people need to feel superior to others. Totally forgetting two things 1) "Model Railroading Is Fun" - Al Kalmbach 1) "The are nine and sixty ways of contructing tribal lays - and every single one is right" - Rudyard Kipling. If it's not your way of doing things, so what? The point is for each of us to enjoy the hobby in his own way.
I never owned any Tyco equipment, but still own some 1960's vintage AHM cars that came with truck mounted X2f couplers and oversized flanges. I was a teenager, it's what I could afford. So I saved my money to buy replacement trucks and Kadees added weight to NMRA standards and some kind older members of the club I was a junior member of showed me how to turn down the flanges on my two locomotives (IHB 0-8-0 and B&O 2-10-2) and add front couplers so they met club standards. I've repowered them with can motors and added DCC since then, but they still are AHM equipment from the Sixties in terms of detail. And guess what? I still enjoy operating them and my freight cars.
BEAUSABREIn my opinion, it's because some people need to feel superior to others. Totally forgetting two things 1) "Model Railroading Is Fun"
In the 5th grade I bought a Tyco train set which came with a flashy red and silver Santa Fe F7. Imagine my disappointment when it wouldn't run. It went back for a refund. That wasn't much fun. My only other Tyco set was one that came with a little switcher as an engine that didn't run great. Well, that wasn't much fun either. That was my experience, but I'll make no judgement calls because heaven forbid someone accuse me of needing to feel superior. Cheers.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 BEAUSABRE In my opinion, it's because some people need to feel superior to others. Totally forgetting two things 1) "Model Railroading Is Fun" In the 5th grade I bought a Tyco train set which came with a flashy red and silver Santa Fe F7. Imagine my disappointment when it wouldn't run. It went back for a refund. That wasn't much fun. My only other Tyco set was one that came with a little switcher as an engine that didn't run great. Well, that wasn't much fun either. That was my experience, but I'll make no judgement calls because heaven forbid someone accuse me of needing to feel superior. Cheers.
BEAUSABRE In my opinion, it's because some people need to feel superior to others. Totally forgetting two things 1) "Model Railroading Is Fun"
I suspect you were in the era when Tyco quality was at its lowest. And yes, at that point it was pretty bad.
The problem I have with some of these manufacturer bashing or praising threads is that people tend to over simplify situations and histories that don't fit into a "sound bite".
And they judge the entire history of a company on one bad product they purchased.
Tyco is a company who's best efforts over their whole history were very good, for the part of the market they were meant for. And their worst efforts, while owned by a big conglomerate, were very poor.
Then the heirs of the original owners bought it back, and offered some nice items for a decade or so.
Now that tooling belongs to LIONEL, a company that has repeatedly failed in the HO market.
I think I may have commented in this thread before. Without checking, here's probably the same thing written again.
When I was a teenager from about 11 to 13, I first owned TYCO, AHM, and Life Like products. They were fine because that was all I knew. Then at about age 14 I discovered Athearn blue box kits, and their rolling quality and paint jobs were just so much better. I never bought another TYCO product again.
It was the trucks and couplers that made the big difference...detail not so much.
Funny, even as a teenager, once I find something better I quit playing with the old stuff. I'm 60 and I still do that.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 Little Timmy Walthers Trainline. This example is interesting, to me anyway... The classic Tyco version is wood with a wooden dock, but the Walthers Trainline version is brick with a concrete dock. Oher than the building material represented, the buildings look identical. -Kevin
Little Timmy Walthers Trainline.
I think the actual first version of this kit was in brick, and the better known wood siding kit was a later copy. Speculation: somebody issued it with wood siding to avoid a copyright issue (or visa versa)?
Doughless SeeYou190 Little Timmy Walthers Trainline. This example is interesting, to me anyway... The classic Tyco version is wood with a wooden dock, but the Walthers Trainline version is brick with a concrete dock. Oher than the building material represented, the buildings look identical. -Kevin As others have mentioned, these kits were first introduced, I believe like so many kits that we know, by one of those European company's...Vollmer, Pola, etc. and imported to the USA via AHM, TYCO, etc. I think the actual first version of this kit was in brick, and the better known wood siding kit was a later copy. Speculation: somebody issued it with wood siding to avoid a copyright issue (or visa versa)?
As others have mentioned, these kits were first introduced, I believe like so many kits that we know, by one of those European company's...Vollmer, Pola, etc. and imported to the USA via AHM, TYCO, etc.
Didn't Art Curren do a kitbash using this kit, and when readers complained that the kits they subsequently purchased were brick instead of wood, whichever manufacturer/distributor it was at the time offered to replace the walls?
Edit: Yep, March 1985 issue of MR
Edit 2: There was a letter on page 17 of the June 1985 issue of MR where a reader wrote about the brick walls. Tyco responded that Pola was manufacturing the kits and switched the siding. Kit purchasers could exchange the kits, and Tyco promised the next run would have wood siding.
I can see Tyco serving as a practice line for weathering and painting. I don't have any and won't but fine for others.
Tyco probably had its place. It seems thing happened in its history. Such is life.
So you also refused to waste time/money on Athearn, MDC... and, well, everybody that sold cars with horn-hook couplers?
Before Kadee's patent expired in 1997, virtually all HO model railroad equipment came with horn-hook couplers. Walthers, MDC, Athearn, Stewart, etc.; cars and locomotives. Some continued doing so well into the 2000s.
When I was a teenager back in the 60s, i would say my Tyco rolling stock performed the best of all the brands i had, mostly for the wrong reasons. First, i was an impatient teenager, and if trackwork looked good enough, it was. I've since learned that 95% of poor train performance is because of the track, and my old Tycos were more tolerant than the rest.
They were heavy, with solid metal frames and metal trucks.
They all had Talgo trucks. You couldn't back them up, but running in forward they hugged the track.
When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Tyco! The standard Tyco wheels were those pizza-cutter plastic wheels with oversized flanges. No, they didn't climb over the rails with all that weight.
Now, my track is all Code 83, and as bulletproof as I can make it. Replacing the old plastic wheels with metal ones resulted in no difference in reliability, because the track is the way it should be, and getting rid of the pizza-cutters made the cars run better on Code 83 because they didn't bump along the ties.
My old Tyco friends have the kind of home they deserve.
here was also an article in RMC (or was it MR?) that bashed the Freight House onto the top of a Bachmann coaling tower (cut off the peak) to make a wooden coal mine "Frenda Mine." Actually, a second coaling tower was needed for the extra front slope area. And you can see the top of the Bachmann tower as part of the little supply house at the far end of the pic.
The kits make for a very nice older coal or silver mine.
I did not have the Bachmann Coaling Tower, but as a 15 year old I cut off the top of the popular TYCO AHM now Walthers Coaling Tower to make a smaller version of Frenda Mine. The TYCO tower is very close to the same width as the Freight House, so the bash is really easy. Cut off the tower at the heavy horizontal beam, and just plop on the freight house.
Like so many other modelers I fantasize about perfection in every respect, even perfect realism in dirt and grime. When I got my Masters in Historic Preservation I was one of apparently very few to specialize in historic technology. I'm philosophically, ethically and in lots of other ways committed to accuracy. The document called "The Secretary of the Interior's Standards for Rehabilitation," a preservation sacred text, has been applied to my models as much as it has been to the 1:1 scale preservation projects I've worked on. That applies as much to my railroad as to anything else, although what I see in my head isn't always what I see on my layout. Or, not yet, anyway. If only my budget could keep pace.
I can see how others might relegte Tyco and other similar pieces to their swap, sell or junk pile.
Except that the car I already have is a lot cheaper than the one I've been drooling over at the hobby shop.
I must have at least two dozen - probably more - real pieces of junk in my collection, including a bunch of Tycos from my earliest days in the hobby. Every one of them has undergone some level of overhaul to improve various characteristics, be it running, appearance, fidelity to a prototype. I've been gathering my stuff for more than 30 years. By now some even have sentimental value, like the HO caboose I was given because I rescued it from a mountain of debris while overseeing the recovery of the Gold Coast Railroad Museum after Hurricane Andrew in '92-93. Shall we say it needs no further weathering.
I was also given a barely operable Tyco Pacific, somewhat crappily lettered for the B&M, which I also pried out of a collapsed building that once housed GCRM's HO model railroad. It has become the lead locomotive in my Great Lakes & Hudson's River RR transition era passenger fleet, along with five less than stellar Tyco Pacifics I've since gathered. All have been drastically cleaned up, re-liveried, upgraded with new motors and many details, as well as sound decoders. They're all numbered and named for various boats in the same or related classes as the boat I served aboard in the Navy: USS Nathanael Greene SSBN636 now has a counterpart in the Great Lakes & Hudson's River engine No. 636, the General Nathanael Greene. I can sit there for hours, just looking at them in my main roundhouse, because each one represents a lot of hours, a lot of imagination, a lot of homework and a perfect platform as much for my pickiness as my dreams.
One guy's junk is another guy's challenge. It's sometimes easier, too, to dare to do a thorough reworking of an old junker than it is to try and work up the guts to pull apart something more modern, gorgeous and recent. And expensive.
And like I've said before, some locomotive or car is always better than no locomotive or car.
Save the Tycos. They're someone's dream awaiting.
navyman636 One guy's junk is another guy's challenge. It's sometimes easier, too, to dare to do a thorough reworking of an old junker than it is to try and work up the guts to pull apart something more modern, gorgeous and recent. And expensive. And like I've said before, some locomotive or car is always better than no locomotive or car. Save the Tycos. They're someone's dream awaiting.
I recall seeing someone who had, I believe, a Sierra Railroad layout that serviced a dam construction site, which ran multiple extra gravel trains to the concrete plant at the dam per day. They used live loads, with old Tyco or Mantua self-unloading hoppers, so that they didn't need to have operators handling the gravel cars or mess around with aprototypical rotary unloaders. For him, those Tycos were golden for what he wanted to model. I believe the comment was that it took about 3 of the cars to every single one on the layout to donate parts to make them work reliable though.
IRONROOSTER I have fond memories of my first 4x8 layout, running a Tyco 10 wheeler and a Tyco prairie with brass Atlas track and Atlas buidlings. It was a lot of fun. I was hooked on the hobby. I added some MDC cars, built a LaBelle flatcar, and built a Bowser K4. And so it goes. Enjoy Paul
15 years later and I still love my old Tycos.
allegedlynerdy I recall seeing someone who had, I believe, a Sierra Railroad layout that serviced a dam construction site, which ran multiple extra gravel trains to the concrete plant at the dam per day. They used live loads, with old Tyco or Mantua self-unloading hoppers, so that they didn't need to have operators handling the gravel cars or mess around with aprototypical rotary unloaders. For him, those Tycos were golden for what he wanted to model. I believe the comment was that it took about 3 of the cars to every single one on the layout to donate parts to make them work reliable though.
I still have about a dozen of those old Tyco "clamshell" door operating hoppers. Honestly, I've never had problems with any of them. I still have my original dumper insert for unloading them, too. I have removed the Talgo trucks with the plastic pizza cutter wheels, added body-mount Kadees, replaced the trucks with Tichy's and the wheels with Intermountains. They run better, but the originals still worked and my work was a planned upgrade not a maintenance repair.
MisterBeasley allegedlynerdy I recall seeing someone who had, I believe, a Sierra Railroad layout that serviced a dam construction site, which ran multiple extra gravel trains to the concrete plant at the dam per day. They used live loads, with old Tyco or Mantua self-unloading hoppers, so that they didn't need to have operators handling the gravel cars or mess around with aprototypical rotary unloaders. For him, those Tycos were golden for what he wanted to model. I believe the comment was that it took about 3 of the cars to every single one on the layout to donate parts to make them work reliable though. I still have about a dozen of those old Tyco "clamshell" door operating hoppers. Honestly, I've never had problems with any of them. I still have my original dumper insert for unloading them, too. I have removed the Talgo trucks with the plastic pizza cutter wheels, added body-mount Kadees, replaced the trucks with Tichy's and the wheels with Intermountains. They run better, but the originals still worked and my work was a planned upgrade not a maintenance repair.
It sounded like he was getting them on the second hand market, so I believe the issue was more "rehabilitating" ones that had sat in a garage for a few years or accumulated the other gunks that are known to happen to old rolling stock.
PB&J RR As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others... As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO... Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers... I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.
I worked in a hobby shop and the day after Christmas in would walk a parent and their child with a Tyco piece of trash that did not make it through the day. As the repair guy it was a quick fix that would not last as there was no bearing that the motor ran in just plastic that would not hold lubricant. We would tell the owner the problem and how to fix it. We would then try to get them to upgrade to an Athearn or Atlas engine. By the way the train set was usually purchased at Kmart or Hobby Lobby etc. who did nothing to help the customer.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Perhaps Tyco had its place and something else came along. I get it if you're just starting to use Tyco.
dti406 I worked in a hobby shop and the day after Christmas in would walk a parent and their child with a Tyco piece of trash that did not make it through the day. As the repair guy it was a quick fix that would not last as there was no bearing that the motor ran in just plastic that would not hold lubricant. We would tell the owner the problem and how to fix it. We would then try to get them to upgrade to an Athearn or Atlas engine. By the way the train set was usually purchased at Kmart or Hobby Lobby etc. who did nothing to help the customer. Rick Jesionowski
To a 10 year old kid on a bicycle with grass cutting money, that TYCO Santa fe F9 in blue and yellow looked beautiful to me along with that U P #29500 yellow gondola with the containers that had opening lids. Now I only needed some of that fiber tie track because I could use my Aurora slot car controllers to run the train, I think. I'v come a long way from that time in my life.
I still have that engine and gondola.
I've mentioned this on other Tyco-related posts but I have quite a few recycled Tyco engines/cars. I have a whole fleet of GP-20s and caboose that I have improved. The 20s ride on Athearn BB drives. The caboose have Athearn caboose trucks and body mounted couplers on them. I call them Tyrhearns. These are for my protolanced road.
I also have a a few other pieces of the other manufacturers mentioned previously. I have three AHM U-boats for coal hauling for the prototype side of my modeling. (One I will admit is in the shop waiting for me to either get a puller and upgrade the wheels or else order replacement traction tires.) I have some Bachmann caboose that happen to fit another prototype niche. They have had some upgrades as well.
For some of us even in this day and age of the RTR rolling stock, they fit prototype and budget.
As a teenager, I had a few boxes of trains found at yard sales. There were a couple of Tyco engines, which ran fine but physically looked in bad shape. They were so old that back in the sixties I actually had to upgrade their couplers to horn-hooks.
I still had those trains when I was in my fifties. I was running just diesels at the time, and had transitioned to DCC, so I abandoned the engines, but i kept the rolling stock. I think they were overweight, but the weight kept them on the track and the Talgo trucks were forgiving. I still have every one of those cars. With improvements, they all run fine and look better than they did when I was in junior high.
MisterBeasley Talgo trucks were forgiving.
I have noticed that Kadee recently updated their "talgo" style trucks with whisker couplers. Previously they had a version of the #4 coupler.
That makes me believe there are still some people that prefer to have truck mounted couplers.
Talgo trucks allow a lot more swing than standard couplers that are body-mounted, so the cars can negotiate tighter curves. The only remaining Talgoes on my layout are on a string of old Tyco passenger cars, which work fine so I'm not going to change them.
dti406 PB&J RR As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others... As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO... Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers... I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something. I worked in a hobby shop and the day after Christmas in would walk a parent and their child with a Tyco piece of trash that did not make it through the day. As the repair guy it was a quick fix that would not last as there was no bearing that the motor ran in just plastic that would not hold lubricant. We would tell the owner the problem and how to fix it. We would then try to get them to upgrade to an Athearn or Atlas engine. By the way the train set was usually purchased at Kmart or Hobby Lobby etc. who did nothing to help the customer. Rick Jesionowski
Well I suppose that depends on what era of Hobby Lobby you were talking about... my first job was running the hobby department in Hobby Lobby store number 5. We did carry the cheaper stuff but we also carried Athearn, Roundhouse and even some of the early spectrum and roco made Atlas. We even got to order from Walthers. At that time it was more sales rather than self service too. As the company expanded they centralized the Hobby department. First to go was RC then they just went to the cheaper stuff in trains and cut out outside suppliers.