BRAKIE wrote: jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12.Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..
jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12.
Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..
Okay, Larry ... you win. Your experiences are obviously are magically prophetic of the hobby's future, while my experiences simply insult people's intelligence.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
marknewton wrote: Shilshole wrote:Quite honestly, I find it unfortunate and disappointing that you would attempt to mislead readers with respect to what Mr. Christianson, as managing editor of the leading scale model railroading magazine and arguably much more aware of the state of the hobby than you or me, considers to be factual.Be fair, Andre
Shilshole wrote:Quite honestly, I find it unfortunate and disappointing that you would attempt to mislead readers with respect to what Mr. Christianson, as managing editor of the leading scale model railroading magazine and arguably much more aware of the state of the hobby than you or me, considers to be factual.
Quite honestly, I find it unfortunate and disappointing that you would attempt to mislead readers with respect to what Mr. Christianson, as managing editor of the leading scale model railroading magazine and arguably much more aware of the state of the hobby than you or me, considers to be factual.
I'm not Andre. Can't you blokes keep your pollyannas straight?
Mr. Christianson is a mere industry professional. He hasn't got the knowledge, credibility or gravitas of our very own Visting Professor of MR History...
I sincerely apologize to both Mr. Christianson and Mr. Dr. Visiting Professor for any confusion I may have created regarding the relative veracity associated with their respective positions.
CNJ831 wrote:In the news release that Joe F. cited, Lionel was quick to associate its recent growth to the popularity of The Polar Express and the Hogwart's (Harry Potter series) train.
Whoopsie! Bad assumption. The date of the article was 3 March 2007. Lionel released Hogwart's only in the last few months of 2007, so it's pretty near impossible in the real world for Lionel to be quick to associate anything with Hogwart's.
Just a hunch, but Lionel's self-acknowledged change in marketing strategy (focused adverts, displays, retail partnerships, participation in WGH -- all mentioned in the article) and reorganization since filing for bankruptcy in 2004 might have a slight bit to do with increased sales.
Even though Lionel has marketed Thomas sets, please note that no mention is made of them assisting in Lionel's improving sales figures
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The article was a fluff marketing piece, not a quarterly financial report. It offered no breakdown of sales figures according to Lionel product line. The only relevant number provided by the Reuters reporter was "sales are up 40 percent in the last two years."
Shilshole wrote:[ CNJ831 wrote:In the news release that Joe F. cited, Lionel was quick to associate its recent growth to the popularity of The Polar Express and the Hogwart's (Harry Potter series) train.Whoopsie! Bad assumption. The date of the article was 3 March 2007. Lionel released Hogwart's only in the last few months of 2007, so it's pretty near impossible in the real world for Lionel to be quick to associate anything with Hogwart's.Just a hunch, but Lionel's self-acknowledged change in marketing strategy (focused adverts, displays, retail partnerships, participation in WGH -- all mentioned in the article) and reorganization since filing for bankruptcy in 2004 might have a slight bit to do with increased sales. Even though Lionel has marketed Thomas sets, please note that no mention is made of them assisting in Lionel's improving sales figuresAbsence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The article was a fluff marketing piece, not a quarterly financial report. It offered no breakdown of sales figures according to Lionel product line. The only relevant number provided by the Reuters reporter was "sales are up 40 percent in the last two years."
I'm can only go by what the press release actually says and that is they credit the upswing in sales to their product's association with the Potter series and The Polar Express. I'm sure if Thomas were creating runaway sale for them, they unquestionably would are mentioned it. When a corporation issues a press release of this nature, they will cite anything that tends to backup their premise. So, absence of Thomas mention is indeed evidence of absence of Thomas sales for Lionel.
CNJ831
CNJ831 wrote:Mark, as I've pointed out to you repeatedly, your location half a world away puts you at a decided disadvantage when it comes to knowing and undertanding how model railroading has evolved in America.
American tinplate trains were replicas of real American trains that, in the past, dominated transportation here....
CNJ831 wrote: Shilshole wrote:[ CNJ831 wrote:In the news release that Joe F. cited, Lionel was quick to associate its recent growth to the popularity of The Polar Express and the Hogwart's (Harry Potter series) train.Whoopsie! Bad assumption. The date of the article was 3 March 2007. Lionel released Hogwart's only in the last few months of 2007, so it's pretty near impossible in the real world for Lionel to be quick to associate anything with Hogwart's.Just a hunch, but Lionel's self-acknowledged change in marketing strategy (focused adverts, displays, retail partnerships, participation in WGH -- all mentioned in the article) and reorganization since filing for bankruptcy in 2004 might have a slight bit to do with increased sales. Even though Lionel has marketed Thomas sets, please note that no mention is made of them assisting in Lionel's improving sales figuresAbsence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The article was a fluff marketing piece, not a quarterly financial report. It offered no breakdown of sales figures according to Lionel product line. The only relevant number provided by the Reuters reporter was "sales are up 40 percent in the last two years." I'm can only go by what the press release actually says and that is they credit the upswing in sales to their product's association with the Potter series and The Polar Express.
I'm can only go by what the press release actually says and that is they credit the upswing in sales to their product's association with the Potter series and The Polar Express.
No, they don't. Think for a minute. As of the article's dateline, 3 March 2007, Lionel hadn't delivered Hogwart's to distributors, let alone released it for retail sales. Without sales of Hogwart's, there are no sales figures to associate with Hogwart's. This is really simple stuff, John.
Further, this is not a press release. It's a puff piece assembled by a Reuters reporter from several sources (do you really think Lionel would quote MTH in a Lionel press release?). It's your interpretation of the piece that's faulty, not Lionel's or the reporter's verbage.
So, absence of Thomas mention is indeed evidence of absence of Thomas sales for Lionel.
Nope. Never has been and never will be. Especially in a puff piece serving as feel-good seasonal filler for news outlets. You're reading waaay beyond the article's content. Make your case, if you have one, with real Thomas data or real Lionel sales figures, not wishful thinking.
marknewton wrote:American tinplate trains were replicas of real American trains that, in the past, dominated transportation here....Yeah, real American trains - like the giraffe car and the exploding boxcar. What were their AAR classifications again, I seem to have forgotten?
Giraffe car: RB, converted from an RS having roof bunkers -- prolly Canadian. Or how about LC? Exploding boxcar: XC4? XTNT? "Boom car" won't work...
jfugate wrote: BRAKIE wrote: jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12.Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..Okay, Larry ... you win. Your experiences are obviously are magically prophetic of the hobby's future, while my experiences simply insult people's intelligence.
If I didn't know better, I'd say there are some old-timers here who want the hobby to die with them.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
SteamFreak wrote: jfugate wrote: BRAKIE wrote: jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12. Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..Okay, Larry ... you win. Your experiences are obviously are magically prophetic of the hobby's future, while my experiences simply insult people's intelligence.If I didn't know better, I'd say there are some old-timers here who want the hobby to die with them.
jfugate wrote: BRAKIE wrote: jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12. Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..Okay, Larry ... you win. Your experiences are obviously are magically prophetic of the hobby's future, while my experiences simply insult people's intelligence.
BRAKIE wrote: jfugate wrote:That's been my experience too at the WGH shows -- they're packed, with youngsters under 12. My NMRA sources tell me their studies show most people in the hobby today got interested in it from about the ages of 8-12. Joe,I have attended many shows as a part time dealer and of late as a attendee and I have seen just the opposite and as anybody can tell you that goes to more then one or two shows a year you will see far more middle age adults then kids.So please refrain from insulting our intelligence..
I just want a factual, realistic representation of where the hobby stands.
Problem is, people who are certain everything is fine keep giving us ancedotal evidence or getting angry or using one tinplate manufacturer's sales increases as a gauge of the whole hobby's health, which does not help answer the question.
I'd like to know how many people are scale model railroaders today.
Okay, let's give it a rest. When we start with the insults it means time's up.
Next thing we'll be calling each other outside.
-Crandell