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4 x 8 Design Contest***LAST DAY***

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Posted by selector on Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:02 PM

I hope my crude hand drawn sheet below can be accepted in lieu of the much nicer depictions everyone else is posting.  It is not to scale, except for the slab outline.  It is meant to be a schematic for later refinement, so the real thing would take some fiddling in the way of spacing and geometry.

I usually prefer some capability to run continuously, but I figure this limits creativity to some extent.  You have to cram a closed loop into it.  So, I thought I would take the approach that this would become part of a greater whole in time, hence the central interchange and the terminal outer curve.  The track plan requires extensive running to get from the inner through main (name the railroad) to the outer route ending at the yard and servicing.  I am a fan of the double-slip switch, so I shoehorned two of them into the yard.  The last two facing point turnouts are only facing point to allow a reversing engine to escape past its drag into the butt-end tracks on the ladder.  It could always run behind and clean up the positioning with a shove if the consist were long enough.

Anyway, here it is. Edit - rotated the image to landscape which has improved its aspect ratio, maybe too much?

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Posted by ereimer on Saturday, November 17, 2007 10:02 PM
 vsmith wrote:
 ereimer wrote:
 vsmith wrote:

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

can you do a timesaver in G on a 4x8 ? that might be interesting to see 

Yes easily, you actually only need as little as a 2 x 8 to do a classic Timesaver, I did an Inglenook switching puzzle plan on a 2' x 6' area with the idea of it being a portable something for shows, but given the loss of the GATS here I could only see taking it to 1 or 2 shows a year, not worth building for such a limited venue.

2 x 6 Inglenook, using HLW Mack engine and HLW shorty cars

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x6%20Inglenook.pdf

2 x 8 Timesaver, using same rolling stock as above

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x8%20Timesaver.pdf

 

 

very neat . i'd love to see one built , any examples ? 

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Posted by steinjr on Saturday, November 17, 2007 10:49 PM
 selector wrote:

I hope my crude hand drawn sheet below can be accepted in lieu of the much nicer depictions everyone else is posting.  It is not to scale, except for the slab outline.  It is meant to be a schematic for later refinement, so the real thing would take some fiddling in the way of spacing and geometry.

I usually prefer some capability to run continuously, but I figure this limits creativity to some extent.  You have to cram a closed loop into it.  So, I thought I would take the approach that this would become part of a greater whole in time, hence the central interchange and the terminal outer curve.  The track plan requires extensive running to get from the inner through main (name the railroad) to the outer route ending at the yard and servicing.  I am a fan of the double-slip switch, so I shoehorned to of them into the yard.  The last two facing point turnouts are only facing point to allow a reversing engine to escape past its drag into the butt-end tracks on the ladder.  It could always run behind and clean up the positioning with a shove if the consist were long enough.

Anyway, here it is.

 Roughing in the outline of a H0 layout based on your schematic, using 22" radius curves and Peco small turnouts, a 90' turntable (12" in the model) and a GE 70-tonner engine with 40' cars:

  

 Is your plan N scale ?

 Stein

 

 

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Posted by selector on Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:35 PM

Yes, it is HO, but I must say that what has turned up posted looks a bit thin...as if it were stretched longitudinally.  I have just checked my measurements for the outer border, representing the edge of the plywood, and I still get 4X8"...my scale in the drawing.

In fact, when I hold my ruler up to the screen, I get 3.75" X nearly 9", so there in an artifact of distortion that I am unable to explain.  Darn!

Any ideas?

Edit - Stein, I rotated the image which does seem to have reduced the drawn thin look, but maybe by too much.  In any event, this new version seems to be more in keeping with what I have before me on the desk....I think.

I appreciate your taking the time to help me out. Smile [:)]

-Crandell

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Posted by steinjr on Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:59 PM
 selector wrote:

Yes, it is HO, but I must say that what has turned up posted looks a bit thin...as if it were stretched longitudinally.  I have just checked my measurements for the outer border, representing the edge of the plywood, and I still get 4X8"...my scale in the drawing.

In fact, when I hold my ruler up to the screen, I get 3.75" X nearly 9", so there in an artifact of distortion that I am unable to explain.  Darn!

Any ideas?

Edit - Stein, I rotated the image which does seem to have reduced the drawn thin look, but maybe by too much.  In any event, this new version seems to be more in keeping with what I have before me on the desk....I think.

I appreciate your taking the time to help me out. Smile [:)]

-Crandell

 Sorry - I played a bit more with it in xtrakcad - and it seems like you can get most of the stuff you drew in on your rough sketch into a 4x8 layout without too much hassle. I had put in the turnouts for the yard in a non-optimal way, making the yard tracks quite a bit shorter than they had needed to be.

 Looks like it might be a challengewith the two switchbacks that go between the diagonal main and the yard area - as drawn in the figure below, it would seem to only leave room for a short engine and two cars.

 Not necessarily a huge problem if the 4x8 is connected a bigger layout, and most traffic for the yard comes from the track that goes leaves the layout in the lower left hand corner.

 

Smile,
Stein

 

 

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:12 AM

Cool, Stein!  Smile [:)]  There might be some promise in this plan after all.  One of the hazards of doing it freehand, and in a hurry, is that you forget that track has a width and that turnouts must have a specific geometry and length.

Again, I sincerely appreciate what you have done on my behalf.  You're a real trooper!  Cool [8D]

-Crandell

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Posted by Don Z on Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:14 AM

Crandell,

Here is my interpretation of your plan:

Don Z.

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:36 AM

Don, thank-you for your efforts, too.  We have an assembly line going with this problem child. Cool [8D]

The scale at the side of Stein's latest drawing shows a problem in length now, so my software is playing tricks on us, either the scanner's or the imagery software in my computer, at railimages, or here.  Whaddaya do?  I think that my plan will work, with some adjusments/deletions?, a beer or six, and some salty language.

I supply the last two.

-Crandell

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Posted by steinjr on Sunday, November 18, 2007 1:01 AM
 Don Z wrote:

Crandell,

Here is my interpretation of your plan:

 Cool - Don's interpretation of Crandell's plan looks much better than the way I drew it !

 Mmm - if you drop that upper right hand corner industry track anyways, how about pulling the diagonal main a little upwards in the upper right hand corner and turn that short switchback between the diagonal main and the yard area into a longer interchange track with room for about 5 40' cars ? Rough idea:

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 18, 2007 1:06 AM
Whoa, you guys are goooooooood!  Big Smile [:D]
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Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:47 AM
 Don Z wrote:

Crandell,

Here is my interpretation of your plan:

Don Z.

Don

What Software are you using to draw with ?

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by Don Z on Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:58 AM

Terry,

I used XTrkCad software to draw the plan. It is free software, available at:

http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

Don Z.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:07 AM

Here's my offereing. Is a sNOHOw guage.

 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:42 AM
 Don Z wrote:

Terry,

I used XTrkCad software to draw the plan. It is free software, available at:

http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

Don Z.

Thanks Don I bookmarked it and after my open house i'll give it a try !

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:29 AM

Gosh, that almost looks...........purposeful............, Chip. Mischief [:-,]

I like it.   That works for me, considering your intention. Big Smile [:D]

-Crandell

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Posted by C&O Fan on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:05 PM

Ok if this is meant to be a 4x8 for a beginner then my first design is far to complex being triple decked with an internal helix.

 This design could be done by a total novice laying section track.

 The one non Atlas product is the curved radius turn out on the inner main line which is a Peco with an outside radius of 18' and an inside radius of 15"

  Advantages are

 Simple

 Section Track

 Double Main lines

Reversing loop

Sky board in the middle makes trains disappear

 Loads in empty's out enhances operations  

 Disadvantages 15" inner track limits access only 4 axle diesels and short hoppers

could be used on the inner main reversing loop

   Two hills with a valley in the middle Coal mine on one side power plant on the other OR if western scenery is preferred Ore mine/Steel mill  

 Other buildings on the back side are builders choice i.e. Walther's background buildings

Gray rectangle could be a passenger platform

  If I had more time and better software I would put the mainline crossovers on the radiuses on diagonally opposing corners

This would allow longer trains and a continious running passing siding

 

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by steinjr on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:42 AM

 Here is my contribution to the 4x8 layout contest. It is based on an idea presented by Linda Sand in the article "One plan, three options" in Model Railroad Planning 2002, lightly modified by me.

 Linda's original layout was something like this (my drawing, not a copy from the magazine):

 My modified layout (Edit: let's call it "Loopy Bridge and Terminal Railroad - LBT RR" - it combines continuous run, bridge traffic and classification/industrial switching Whistling [:-^]) looks like this:

 Highlights:

  • Continuous running (18" radius curves) through two scenes
  • No complex track work - uses flextrack, Peco short turnouts and a wye turnout.
  • Railroad has a purpose - bridge traffic between interchange 1 and interchange 2, plus local switching.
  • Variety of industries - 6 industries on the switching half of the layout.
  • Trailing and facing sidings (needs runaround moves)
  • Can arrange meets between trains (has two double ended two sidings and the possibility of using the long single ended siding at the lower half for meets - if you back into or out of the siding).
  • No staging - but you can attach a cassette (or a shelf layout) to either interchange track.
  • When you get tired of running in circles, you can do as Linda Sand proposed in her article - cut the layout in two (along the backdrop), and arrange the two parts as an L or an I (2x16), making it part of a larger layout. Only tracks you in principle need to modify is the main curve - where the two halves will join together.

 And the reason I can squeeze in more than Linda did is 18" radius curves vs the 20" radius curves Linda used, and that Linda didn't overcrowd things quite as much as I do.

 I think this one should be possible to build and operate, as long as you use short cars (40' cars) and short diesel engines (say GE 70-tonners or Alco S1s). It might to have the potensial for shortish operating sessions for one or two operators. 

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:20 AM

OK here is an entry that I drew up just for this contest.   It is based on the same concept as my 1979 N-scale layout, although scaled down quite a bit.  This actually seems to be a common theme and concept for small layouts as I have found other examples in the literature.  It is commonly called a "continous run with branch" design.

The Ward City Mead & Eckley  WM&E

The main layout represents a shortline interchanging with a class one.  There are two small towns represented.  The continuous run loop represents the class one with which the shortline interchanges.  It has hidden storage for trains to be staged, including one stub ended.  The mainline class 1 train drops off cars for the short line.  The track going straight back from the main turnout is meant to be the interchange track however it will only hold a few cars.  The actual branch could be used for an interchange; however, the grade might make it difficult to spot things there.

The short line daily takes the cars and spots them at the appropriate industries.  Industries have single serving tracks that will require internal moves.  The industries will require a variety of freight car types to make the roster interesting.  There is no turn at the end of the line so if steam power is selected it will have to run the train backwards one way or the other.

The two towns can be separated by just scenic elements or with a backdrop as indicated by the line.  The backdrop and the tracks are slightly off kilter from being exactly parallel with the edges of the board.  This hopefully helps distract the eye from the rectangular edges of the 4x8. 

Mainline has outside minimum radius of 22".  Shortline minimum radius is 18".  I've used 22" easements were possible.   One will imediately notice some of the very short (one car) industrial sidings.  They could be extended and/or curved for greater capacity at the expense of looks and making the railroad's civi engineer look like a drunk b#$T(#@.   I prefered having more industries variety of rolling stock over quantity.  If I were to extend one track it would be the quarry.  Here a vertical "wall" of rock behind the track would make most sense.

Finally if one didn't mind a steep grade the stub end staging track could be extended on around the corner and down along the entire length of the layout.  Two trains could be stacked linearly on that track. 

The track plan:
 

The lower level:


The scenery concept:

The original N-scale Layout:

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:13 AM
We have some nice one's here. Only three days left.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:02 PM
Okay, one last thing. Think of a name for your layout because that's how people will vote on them.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by chadw on Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:37 PM
OK spacemouse, my layout's name is the Newport Northern.  Check your Pm's too.
CHAD Modeling the B&O Landenberg Branch 1935-1945 Wilmington & Western Railroad
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Posted by C&O Fan on Friday, November 23, 2007 8:19 AM

 Name

   "The Loup Creek RR"

I forgot to say that if this layout were running DC you could isolate the mainline crossovers and reverse the polarity on one of the mains with a switch making it possible to run trains in opposite directions using one DC power pack

        

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by selector on Friday, November 23, 2007 10:25 AM
"Selkirk & Pacific Ry" for mine.
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Posted by vsmith on Friday, November 23, 2007 10:41 AM

 ereimer wrote:
 vsmith wrote:
 ereimer wrote:

can you do a timesaver in G on a 4x8 ? that might be interesting to see 

Yes easily, you actually only need as little as a 2 x 8 to do a classic Timesaver, I did an Inglenook switching puzzle plan on a 2' x 6' area with the idea of it being a portable something for shows, but given the loss of the GATS here I could only see taking it to 1 or 2 shows a year, not worth building for such a limited venue.

2 x 6 Inglenook, using HLW Mack engine and HLW shorty cars

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x6%20Inglenook.pdf

2 x 8 Timesaver, using same rolling stock as above

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x8%20Timesaver.pdf

 

 

very neat . i'd love to see one built , any examples ? 

Sorry never got beyond the planning stage, these are still big layouts and I dont have the spare room

 

 

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by PASMITH on Friday, November 23, 2007 10:50 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:
Okay, one last thing. Think of a name for your layout because that's how people will vote on them.


Whisper River Timber Company- Level 3
Whisper River RR- Level 2
Long-Bell Lumber Company Weed Division- Level 1

Use Whisper River RR as Priority name

Peter Smith, Mempis
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Posted by Don Z on Friday, November 23, 2007 1:29 PM

In honor of the holiday, the name is "Turkey Trail Railroad".

Don Z.

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Posted by selector on Friday, November 23, 2007 1:41 PM
I had been toying with "The Staph & Carbuncle RR", but thought better on't.
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Saturday, November 24, 2007 2:06 PM

Tomorrow I will be starting working on a web page to display all the layouts for voting. If you have not already submitted your layout let me know ASAP so I can allow room for it.

Make sure you have the name you want and your description is how you want it as I will cut and paste that info.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:06 AM

Last day to make Entries, Name your entry, or give a descrption

If there is no name, I'll make one up based upon the layout.

Examples. Twice around with 2 sidings or Small town switching

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by NYCentral1 on Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:14 PM

Ok, this is the Sierra Mesa Southwestern.

 

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