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4 x 8 Design Contest***LAST DAY***

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4 x 8 Design Contest***LAST DAY***
Posted by SpaceMouse on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 2:37 PM

As someone pointed out, I'm getting $$$ from Microsoft every time the characters 4 x 8 pass through my Internet Explorer.Big Smile [:D]

So, are you game? You can put your effort where your mouth is. The best ones I'll post for postarity on my website. 

The rules.

It has to be HO and fit on a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood. You can build up or down as much as you want.

You can use any brand of track or flex or handlay.

18" minimum radius for Post 1920 non-geared locos. 15 inch minimum for geared and pre-1920 steam. #4 turnouts or greater. Grades should be 4% or less. In other words, it has to work. 

All track should have a purpose and work for that purpose. If you have a siding or spur to service an industry, the industry should fit (or you need to show how to kitbash it to make it work.) There should be access roads to the industies (real or implied). Industries can also be implied--such as a coal conveyor coming from the other side of a hill. 

You should have a plan for scenery ( at least describe how it works.) In other words, it has to be finishable.

Your layout can be railfan or operations-based or both.

You an post your plan on this or another site for comments to refine it. Post it here when you are ready to rumble. 

You can put up things you've designed in the past.

At the end we will narrow it down to the top 5 through discussion among the contestants and post it for the general population for ranking.  

How far out do you want the deadline? a week? two-weeks? a month? Any rules you want to change?

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 2:53 PM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

It has to be HO...

Grumpy [|(]

GMR had a four track PRR layout on a 4x8 a few years back...

In my opinion the only thing more limiting to a beginner than assuming they have to build a 4x8 is assuming they have to do it in HO.

If you'd open it up to N I would be all over it.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:01 PM

What the heck I'm in.  Cool [8D]

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:01 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 SpaceMouse wrote:

It has to be HO...

Grumpy [|(]

GMR had a four track PRR layout on a 4x8 a few years back...

In my opinion the only thing more limiting to a beginner than assuming they have to build a 4x8 is assuming they have to do it in HO.

If you'd open it up to N I would be all over it.

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

Or not....I need to be working on MY layout!

 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by secondhandmodeler on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:04 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 SpaceMouse wrote:

It has to be HO...

Grumpy [|(]

GMR had a four track PRR layout on a 4x8 a few years back...

In my opinion the only thing more limiting to a beginner than assuming they have to build a 4x8 is assuming they have to do it in HO.

If you'd open it up to N I would be all over it.

  Maybe you could try something in a 2x4 in N scale.  Even if it doesn't fit the contest,  I'm sure you would come up with something worth seeing.
Corey
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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:15 PM

Why, this is easy Space Mouse

Concept 1: Take a 4x8 3/4" plywood panel, lay horizontal on two (2) saw-horses.
Paint light tan, cover panel with a copious even layer of screened sand, then make several mounds/dunes of sand, add a few rock outcroppings.
Add some garage-sale quality beat up flextrack, half buried in the sand.
Then add some beat up, derailed European steam loco & crappy passenger cars, and finally some model figures, dressed in arab garb, but really depiciting Lawrence of Arabia & his men.

Concept 2: Buy the new Walther's Milwaukee terminal + associated support buildings - arrange on 4x8 panel, add some flex track & ballast & detail parts - and that's about all you'll have room for...

Of course, the toughest part of either one will be getting a 3-D looking flat backdrop which has good prespective no matter what angle you view it from...Tongue [:P]

Disclosure - I had a 4x8 'plywood special' layout for many years, it was an oval gussied up from some Atlas track plan book of year's past, and it was... operationally rather boring.  Even designing a tight switching layout (I'm thinking of the Raritan Central in Edison, NJ, but RMC is running a series on the Modesto in California) is best with track/structures over several fingers/pennisulars rather than one big table with a PITA-to-reach center.

Extra bonus question: that Atlas track plan book, I suppose it was from the early 1960s, had in the front a cartoon of some guy with a oval track gathering dust at his feet, sitting in an easy chair leering over some girlie magazine - anyone remember the of that track plan book? I ask not for the cartoon, but for the last track plan which was the very stunning definition of Spaghetti-bowl track planning - I think the multiple loops of track in the center of the plan were even located in a pseudo-valley - I'd love to see that plan once again to see if my memory is correct or not...

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 3:50 PM

Very vaguely, from that period, I recall a John Armstrong layout based on the Bingham Canyon copper mine (which had not yet gone to truck haulage.)  The center of the layout was the main pit - a moon crater with a 'main track' spiraling to the bottom and loading spurs here and there all the way down.  I wonder if that's the layout that found its way into that book.  More than a few of the layout books put out by track manufacturers over the years have been full of John Armstrong designs, acknowledged in the fine print next to the copyright date (or not at all.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by on30francisco on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 4:07 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 SpaceMouse wrote:

It has to be HO...

Grumpy [|(]

GMR had a four track PRR layout on a 4x8 a few years back...

In my opinion the only thing more limiting to a beginner than assuming they have to build a 4x8 is assuming they have to do it in HO.

If you'd open it up to N I would be all over it.

I agree that with an N scale 4x8 you can get almost four times the railroading in an equivalent space compared to HO and have broad curves and much less compression of scenery. Although there is some steam available and the equipment has vastly improved in the last thirty years, those of us who have an interest in modeling older small branchlines with small steam locos and older rolling stock would be severely challenged as there is very little available. For contempory railroading, a 4x8 in N scale is just the ticket.

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Posted by SD60M on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 4:32 PM
 DigitalGriffin wrote:

What the heck I'm in.  Cool [8D]

 

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]
Long Live The Burlington Northern!
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Posted by Guilford Guy on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 5:08 PM
Train comes off the staging onto the layout. Goes onto the curvbe and into the tunnel. Pops out under the road bridge in the town of becket. Station in becket etc. I built it modern era but all industries can be changed. They do work in Becket, Shove a few cars up towards the industry in Becket Falls, heads south and reassembles train. Does a few laps and eventually ends up back in staging. :)
Operational based with Lots of varied Scenery and a loop for breaking in locos, and continuous  running. 

Alex

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 5:19 PM

 on30francisco wrote:

Although there is some steam available and the equipment has vastly improved in the last thirty years, those of us who have an interest in modeling older small branchlines with small steam locos and older rolling stock would be severely challenged as there is very little available...

Not quite so.  Check on Athearn's re-release of the MDC old-time stuff.  There's tons.  Boxcars, reefers, stock cars, coaches (long and short), cabeese, all with truss rods and finely detailed.  They also have some of the finest-running N scale steam engines, the old-time 2-8-0 and 2-6-0.

Other options on steam include the Bachmann 2-8-0 and Model Power 4-4-0 and 2-6-0.  Bachmann has announced that they're doing their M&PA ten-wheeler in N soon too.

I was actually considering doing an N scale 1910-era Colorado Midland using that stuff.  I could probably do the Leadville to Hagermann Pass segment on a 4x8.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 5:34 PM

Extra bonus question: that Atlas track plan book, I suppose it was from the early 1960s, had in the front a cartoon of some guy with a oval track gathering dust at his feet, sitting in an easy chair leering over some girlie magazine - anyone remember the of that track plan book? I ask not for the cartoon, but for the last track plan which was the very stunning definition of Spaghetti-bowl track planning - I think the multiple loops of track in the center of the plan were even located in a pseudo-valley - I'd love to see that plan once again to see if my memory is correct or not...

It was  the  HO Custom Line  track planning book by John Armstrong and Thaddeus Stepek. This was the track plan: http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/pages/10029.htm

The magazine the guy was reading was "Playman".

Andre -  

 

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Chuck Geiger on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 5:45 PM

Space - what do you win?

 

 

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Posted by vsmith on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:02 PM

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:28 PM

 andrechapelon wrote:
It was  the  HO Custom Line  track planning book by John Armstrong and Thaddeus Stepek. This was the track plan: http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/pages/10029.htm
 

Ah, dang, my memory was wrong...I would have sworn that layout had more track, and even a pond+dam in the middle.  Oh well.
Using that link and moving through the layouts, I found mine was 10014 - Improving the Simple Oval which apparently was in a totally different book altogether (HO Layouts for every Space). I had the Tyco Pipe Unloader on the switchback, the Revel Enginehouse on the end of the left side spur which approaches the double track section, and of course the mandatory Revel Passenger Station on the lower right, before the enginehouse spur.  That was when Model Railroading Was Fun, my friends...Laugh [(-D]
Maybe the Spaghetti Bowl one I was thinking of was this one 10023 - Folded Dog-Bone, with 5 thru tracks in a row at one point (not a yard) - too bad the schematics on that Atlas site don't include the original artwork.  Pretty sad that I remembered the silly guy reading girly mag cartoon...

Cool link by the way, good to see the ol'-skool HO layouts of the past...

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:35 PM
 chutton01 wrote:

 andrechapelon wrote:
It was  the  HO Custom Line  track planning book by John Armstrong and Thaddeus Stepek. This was the track plan: http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/pages/10029.htm
 

Ah, dang, my memory was wrong...I would have sworn that layout had more track, and even a pond+dam in the middle.  Oh well.
Using that link and moving through the layouts, I found mine was 10014 - Improving the Simple Oval which apparently was in a totally different book altogether (HO Layouts for every Space). I had the Tyco Pipe Unloader on the switchback, the Revel Enginehouse on the end of the left side spur which approaches the double track section, and of course the mandatory Revel Passenger Station on the lower right, before the enginehouse spur.  That was when Model Railroading Was Fun, my friends...Laugh [(-D]
Maybe the Spaghetti Bowl one I was thinking of was this one 10023 - Folded Dog-Bone, with 5 thru tracks in a row at one point (not a yard) - too bad the schematics on that Atlas site don't include the original artwork.  Pretty sad that I remembered the silly guy reading girly mag cartoon...

Cool link by the way, good to see the ol'-skool HO layouts of the past...

How much spaghetti had to die to draw some of those?Big Smile [:D]

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:50 PM

 andrechapelon wrote:
that Atlas track plan book, ,... but for the last track plan which was the very stunning definition of Spaghetti-bowl track planning
 chutton01 wrote:
Ah, dang, my memory was wrong...I would have sworn that layout had more track, and even a pond+dam in the middle.
There is nothing wrong with your memory. The one you are thinking of the with pond & dam is from the book Custom-Line Layouts HO Scale Railroads by John Armstrong.  You are talking about the first edition published in 1957 with a black cover.  The track plan you are speaking of is the second to last in the book, #18, and is called "The Big PanHandle".  That is on pages 36 and 37.  This plan was dropped from the book somewhere along the line.  My copy of a later edition of the same book does not have it; neither has Atlas reproduced it for their on-line gallary of track plans.

It is a great plan for someone with a very limited amount of space who wants a real yard and to run multiple trains for some distance simultaniously.   It is a terrible plan for people who enjoy way freights and switching, as there is only one industry. The pond and dam is a mill-pond for that industry.   It is NOT a 4x8.

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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:53 PM

 Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:
How much spaghetti had to die to draw some of those?Big Smile [:D]

Hey, maximum utilization of scarce space! Tongue [:P]  When you look at them from this distance, you just try to figure out what they were thinking - 1 car spurs jutting out here and there, 5 tracks right next to each other (yeah, I know you could find this in a few prototype places, mostly when 2 or more railroads shared the same ROW, but still), curves and double backs, and best of all no backdrops or scene blockers - it was perfectly toy-like because these layouts were NOT representations of tight terminal district trackage (e.g. the famed circular CNJ freighthouse/float terminal in the Bronx), but were instead suppose to represent an average town/area, with 5 tracks looping around to serve the 2 or 3 industries (+ 2 passenger stations, one on each end of the loop).  I know that Atlas et. al. wanted to sell lots of that quality Code 100 Steel Track (forget Brass, Steel!), but still less can really be more...
OK everyone, vote for your favorite Atlas 4x8 track plan, we'll put some industries on the winner, and present that to Space Mouse as a group-effort entry!  It'll be a cinch to win! Tongue [:P]

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 6:58 PM

 chutton01 wrote:
Maybe the Spaghetti Bowl one I was thinking of was this one 10023 - Folded Dog-Bone, with 5 thru tracks in a row at one point (not a yard) - too bad the schematics on that Atlas site don't include the original artwork.
Yeah, I know that layout too.  I intend to build it some day (one of the few from that book that I have not). 

That layout was made from a prototypical scenario called the "Non-branching branch".  In real life the branch paralleled the double track main, just like the model layout does.   It was written up in the April 1957 issue of Model Railroader.  The Atlas plan was an adaptation using their snap track of that original.   Two of the track which you say are 5-in-a-row are not.  There are three layers of track and two (the top most and bottom most) of the tracks at that point are hidden.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:01 PM

One interesting point that I see in all of this is the growth and evolution of John Armstrong's thinking over the years.  If I am not mistaken, a lot of these spaghetti bowls are at least to some degree his.  Yet by the time Track Planning For Realistic Operation came about the less is more idea was clearly forming.  And I think this evolved even further in his later designs.  It would be an interesting study.

 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:06 PM
 chutton01 wrote:
curves and double backs, and best of all no backdrops or scene blockers
You too easily criticize what you do not know of what you speak.  You are talking only to a track plan without knowing anything of the prototype it is designed to represent.  And By the way it did have scene blockers.  As I recall one of the places the track exited to one of the hidden loops was cleverly disguised by an over pass.  Something many people today still can't figure out how to do.
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Posted by on30francisco on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:33 PM
 vsmith wrote:

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

I've been tempted to build a small Gn15 layout on a 4x8; not for the contest but to complement the 45mm gauge equipment. I've seen some excellent ones featured in NGSL. Gn15 can realisticaly be built with curves that would be considered very sharp in HO - and you have all the advantages of Large Scale. 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:58 PM
 vsmith wrote:

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

Think of it as a Haiku.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:00 PM
 Chuck Geiger wrote:

Space - what do you win?

Bragging rights and seeing your name in lights.  

Chip

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Posted by ereimer on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 10:07 PM
 vsmith wrote:

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

can you do a timesaver in G on a 4x8 ? that might be interesting to see 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, November 8, 2007 8:03 AM
Any more takers. I'm going to attempt a version of an old Paul Mallory design, mostly just to be sure it can really be done.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by C&O Fan on Thursday, November 8, 2007 11:10 AM

Ok here's mine

Kinda weird but certainly different

 

Think Vertical,3 Levels High. Kinda like the mountain the guy was trying to model in "Close Encounters"

The center loops are a helix with access via the inside turnout

There would be tunnel portals on either side of the inside turnout and only the front track

and sidings would be visible on each level

The center would be hidden by vertical rock walls

The tracks could vary on each level to suite your needs

and more runaround space could be had by using curved turnouts 

The upper levels would be supported by 1X2s cantilevered from a center box frame

so that there are no posts on the outside edges

Each level would be 12 inches apart

Three levels high

Starting at 3ft 

With the top level at 5 ft

Questions ?

  TerryinTexas

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by vsmith on Thursday, November 8, 2007 12:43 PM
 ereimer wrote:
 vsmith wrote:

HO only?? SoapBox [soapbox]

Eeh! H-ow O-rdinary, I was gonna give it a whirl in G Tongue [:P], but since this is a private party, I'll just say 'Bah humbug' and go back to my workbench! Wink [;)]

can you do a timesaver in G on a 4x8 ? that might be interesting to see 

Yes easily, you actually only need as little as a 2 x 8 to do a classic Timesaver, I did an Inglenook switching puzzle plan on a 2' x 6' area with the idea of it being a portable something for shows, but given the loss of the GATS here I could only see taking it to 1 or 2 shows a year, not worth building for such a limited venue.

2 x 6 Inglenook, using HLW Mack engine and HLW shorty cars

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x6%20Inglenook.pdf

2 x 8 Timesaver, using same rolling stock as above

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/Microlayout%20Study%202x8%20Timesaver.pdf

 

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, November 8, 2007 12:55 PM

 SpaceMouse wrote:
Any more takers. I'm going to attempt a version of an old Paul Mallory design, mostly just to be sure it can really be done.
I suppose I'll enter the two I already put into the other thread.   This time of year (train shows, end of fiscal years for non-profits, holidays, etc.) makes taking on another MR task daunting.

Are we supposed to post them to this thread, or are we supposed to get them into their "final" format all nicely written up and then post them to a new thread?

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, November 8, 2007 1:00 PM

Post them here. The top 5 voted by us submitters will go to general populous for vote. Unless there are only like 7 then they all should go.

 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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