I'm new to the hobby and starting my first layout. I'm reading Kalmbach's Trackwork and Lineside Detail book and it has a few chapters on building track from scratch and building turnouts from scratch. I have to ask, why would you do that when you can just buy track and turnouts that are already assembled? It seems like a great deal of work that doesn't really need to be done. I'd like to know what the benefits are before I start building my layout in case, that really is the way to go.
MIke Brubaker
If you search on here for the "Bronx Terminal", you'll see why handlaying track and turnouts is necessary in this hobby. There are no commercially available products for the type of trackwork needed at that terminal.
Also, if you have a need for gauntletted track you're going to have to handlay it. Dual gauge rails anywhere? Handlaying is the only option.
If you have a crossing between tracks that has to be on a curve, unless you want to introduce a straight section of track you're going to have to handlay your crossover.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
I agree with selector on that. There is a high degree of satisfaction that comes from building your own stuff.
I've only built freight cars and some structures (no hand-laid special work yet), but compared to the RTR ones I have - I like the kits a whole lot better. They (the kits) aren't "just another car" on the layout, they're "MY car".
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Handlaying track can allow for a greater degree and variety of detail. For example, on the prototype, tie spacing is not uniform and may be varied for specific situations. One could also simulate ties that were very roughly cut, and even slightly bent rail.
Secondly, handlaying can allow a greater degree of customization. Yard ladders handlaid in place can be more compact than a ladder assembled from RTR turnouts. Custom crossings at odd angles and with curves are possible. Special trackwork such as gantlets, and multi-guage trackwork can be made.
Dan
Good observations above. I've done both, and have always found hand-laying track to be very satisfying. "Eyeballing" down the track to find little irregularities and then correcting them made me feel like I was looking at it like an old lining-bar gang used to do. I had a basement HO layout in Virginia with hand-layed Code 70 and it held up well over many years. Some components for hand-laying track are getting harder to find (I used to use Campbell profile ties, but they seem to be scarce now.)
That being said, I now have to admit that spiking Code 70 is not as easy on the eyes as it used to be. I don't remember getting that much older, but my eyes tell me they are. For my new shelf layout I'm going with flex-track and commercial turnouts, although there can be different wiring considerations depending on your DCC decisions. As a new modeler, I expect that you will be using DCC. If I read the packaging correctly, some new releases of turnouts require adding some jumper wires if the "old" block control is used. I will still likely hand-lay at least one of the foreground spurs so that visitors can say "you did WHAT"?
Bill
I recently came across a scratchbuilt ferry bridge deck that I built for a previous layout. It has a handlaid wye switch on it. While I didn't think it was that great when I was building it, I was amazed at how good it looked after years of storage in less that ideal conditions. Checking it with the NMRA track gauge showed that everything was still in gauge and still worked.
George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Well, see, that's the thing, I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy doing it. I have a feeling I'll enjoy building structures, doing scenery, weathering cars, etc. But, knowing myself, I have a feeling I'll get very frustrated with handlaying track. That's why I was trying to get an idea of whether there were some overriding benefits to doing so.
Could someone tell me why they feel handlayed track is more reliable than bought track? Don't you introduce a lot of human error(shaky hands, glue spots, etc.) with handlaying? I'm afraid I'd make a mess of things.
FEW commercial turnouts maintaine 'gauge' throuhout -particularly through the points/frog area. It's a qustion of individual manufacturing tolerances vs. cost.
Check one with with an NMRA 'gage' sometime.
Hand laying (spiking) allows precise spacing - resulting in fewer derailments.
2, FROG 'WING' RAILS carry the wheels - elininating bounce when properly gauged. Since too many wheelsets come with various spacing and flange dimensions (width, depth), manufacturers catering to the mass market use 'oversized' flangeways (to eliminate returns).
Flangeways are gaps in the track.
Makers of more 'in gauge' turnouts with better geometry have to charge more. Most 'NEWBIES' idea of tolerances is 'if it stays on the track'.
The case (today) for hand laid rail on wood ties is mostly appearance. Micro-Engineering caters to the 'Savy' crowd with more scale sized rail and Atlas to the 'Cost' crowd'. (Example: Atlas code 83 is code 100 height.)
'You pays your money and gets whatcha pays for'
I wanted to look into handlaying track just to see what its like and the costs. Can someone point me to a websitr where you can buy the supplies? Do you just make your own ties, or do you buy them? I doubt I would do it but can someone humor me with some info?
Thanks, Smitty
smitty311 wrote:I wanted to look into handlaying track just to see what its like and the costs. Can someone point me to a websitr where you can buy the supplies? Do you just make your own ties, or do you buy them? I doubt I would do it but can someone humor me with some info? Thanks, Smitty
http://handlaidtrack.com
You can buy their "copper coated" PC board ties and solder directly to them. The process looks fairly simple and straightforward if you can follow directions.
They sell rail, ties, various jigs and tools for making turnouts, and other bits and pieces.
Smitty 311:
http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bkho.html
My first HO layout in 1948 was with handlaid track and purchased turnouts. It was handlaid using punched fiber tie strip that had the holes for the spikes already punched through. Laying track went realy fast, it was always in gauge and never caused any derailments. Not so for the purchased switches, which I disassembled and rebuilt to get them in gauge.
Having seen the merits of not being locked in to what ever radius curved track was available in I also handlaid my next layout on stained wood ties from Clover House and used the best hand laying tool known to man, the Kadee spiker. I still wasn't up to hand laying switches, but used the rebuilt ones and rebuilt the new ones as well. On a large layout there is a substantial saving, especially in the switches. I have ordered the Fast Tracks jigs and kits, and will make all of my switches, now in code 83 rail.
If you want to lay a 42 1/2 inch outside corner curve, you either have to use flex track or hand lay it. With the ready made curved track you are stuck with what the makers offer.
If you are just doing a 4 x 8 loop, go with ready made by all means.
There is a cost and performance benefit to handlaying turnouts. Appearance is a wash. The tie spike detail is better on the commercial, but the points usually are stamped out bent metal. Handlaid has better looking points, but suffers in the spike/tie plate details.
Flex track costs about the same or less than handlaying if you spike every tie. If you do tie plates then handlaid is even more. Appearance, flex track with tie plates and scale ties is better than handlaid with oversized spikes. Flex track is available in several sizes for the different scales so that's only a problem if your looking to use really light rail code, say 40 for HO.
See this site http://www.proto87stores.com/ if exact detailed appearance is important.
Bottom line. Unless you enjoy handlaying, use flex with scale details (some flex has really clunky spike/tie plate detail) and some of the better commercial turnouts. Unless you do closeup photography you won't really notice the track details in HO.
All that said, a lot of folks find that Atlas works just fine and looks okay too.
Enjoy
Paul
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Why handlay track and handbuild turnouts???
Short & sweet:
1.To exceed prefab manufaturing TOLERANCES and reduce deraiments.
2. To reduce cost$.
Unfortunately the trade-off involves MORE WORK. ... as Chip (Mouse) Engleman can verify,
I agree that some flextrack today exceeds 'hand laid' (brand ME)... vs. out of NMRA spec (brand A) (yes)! it's 'super flexibility' allows 'kinking' - IE: multiple radii within it's general radius.
(I was wondering WHY my old 4-4-2 Atlantic was derailing on a 90o 26"r. curve). One can pay a price for too much added 'Simplicity'.
Years ago as a student it was far cheaper to build your own track and that includes turnouts.
I needed a double slip switch and I found an article in model railroader how to build one. That was THE first switch I ever built. Good article and it teached a lot about the track making basics.
Buying a double slip was expensive. But down the line I wanted better detail in my trackwork, experimented with individual tie plates, tiny spikes, found plastic joint details as joiners, things that detailed the track up. I won't do the handlaying I used to do in favor of better detail.
But I am no stranger to doing special work as I can build doubleslips at any angle and maybe make 2 or 3 tracks cross thru it at the same time. You need special trackwork at times to get something to fit the way you need. Commercial track just doesnt do that.
Short answer is handlaid looks great and performs better than any other type of track.
The reason it looks better is that you can easily stagger the ties the same way they are on the real thing. You can also easily color the ties to reflect various stages of weathering reflecting areas were the track is old and areas were the MOW crew has recently replaced ties.
Rail weathering is much easier and more realistic as you apply the weathering to the rail before you lay it.
Additionaly you can vary tie spacing as appropriate. Yard tracks and sidings generally used a wider spacing than mainline tracks. Old time tie spacing was also different than modern. You can't do this with prefab track.
As far as improved operation goes, earlier posts have indicated why handmade turnouts work better. You simply can hold them to better and tighter specs than commercial turnouts makers can afford to do.
Ordinary track works better to as you can easily stagger rail joints and avoid any issues with kinking. Flex track has some real failings as far as avoiding kinked joints on curves without a lot of additional work such as triming rail and soldering the joints (always fun with plastic ties). You also know handlaid is absolutely in gauge as you check gauge constanly while laying.
I've got all three types of track on my layout --sectional and flextrack I already had on hand in hidden areas, some switches being replaced as I make my own. The handlaid track looks and performs the best by far. It also was much easier to do than most people who haven't tried it would believe.
I don't think you save any money by handlaying, in fact it probably costs a little more, but it's well worth it. I would reccomend that everyone give it a try, at least on a side track. A small quanity of rail for experimental purpose can be salvaged from used or odd bits of left over flex track. Give it a try, you'll like the results.
JBB
When I start on my next layout I will try to make my own turnouts using Fast tracks jig as Selector many moons suggested. I want large turnouts and that is the best way to get them. Plus I want to be proud over yet another thing that I've done on my own.
Magnus
With ballasted track, how often do you actually see the tie plates, spikes, etc?
Even on the prototype alot of that detail is "hidden" by the ballast....
Granite, I think that Mark has given us the answer. He noticed! It makes no difference if the occasional visitor to a layout might turn their nose up over a miss like that, but each of us knows, or ought to know, what pleases our own eyes and sensibilities when it comes to our approach to "modelling". For example, I have the odd visitor (in both senses of that word, BTW) who might rave over an aspect of my layout, but if I have determined that it still needs work, whose opinion will govern what changes will be make to that part of the layout?
I have seen others comment that handlaid track has its benefits, to be sure, but it takes an inordinate amount of detailed work to make it look as complete as plain old flextrack. And, I do agree with you that, depending on what a person does in the way of weathering, it can be difficult to notice that track is missing some spikes or plates.
-Crandell
The question is why handlay track and turnouts.
The appearance issue always comes up. Handlaid track in the typical 1970s style in HO consisted of code 70 rail with oversize spikes every 5th tie. Did it look better than Atlas code 100 flex track and Custom Line turnouts (pretty much standard then)? Yes! Does 1970s style handlaid track look better than ME flex track or CV tie strips with their tie plate detail, non-perfect alignment of ties, near scale-size spikeheads, etc? Yes and no, depending on weathering, painting, and what details matter to YOUR eyes. It also depends very much on what era you are modeling. ME flex track is not so great for a 19th Century or even early 20th Century short lines, where tie plates don't appear in prototype pictures, ties were not creosoted, and some (or even most) of the ties were hand-hewn.
But handlaid track can also be done a lot better, but will take more time. Scale size spikes, tie plates, joint bars, and other details are available from http://www.proto87.com/. You can now make handlaid track just as realistic as any commercial offering.
The reliability issue has been discussed.
Ultimately, it's a choice as to whether to hand lay track or buy commercial. Just like it is a choice to buy RTR cars or kits or scratch build. You can buy RTR cars that are very, very close to the equal of what most of us could scratch build. Not every RTR car available is going to meet the scratchbuilt standard, but there are some. The same with track. Handlaid track means consistent appearance and reliability standards set by you, the individual. Some commercial track and turnouts may be very close to your handlaid standards, but certainly not all.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
To split your question into two parts:
Why handlay track? No good reason that I can determine. All of my `plain Jane' track is flex.
Why handlay turnouts:
Just my . Other opinions may differ
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in 1964)
TTT's got it.
WHY handlay tunouts? - They're more WORK, (and PERFORM better). Worth it ?
NO. My trains stay on the track most of the time.
YES. I like thing to run more like a real railroad..
PREFAB turnouts have to make too many compromises to $ELL. (The better ones cost more). Duh!