BRAKIE wrote: Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Jeff,A very basic Bachmann DCC system can be had for around $100.00 plus some Bachmann DCC equipped locomotives.I suspect the final cost would be around $500.00 at full price..It would be less then that at discount.My guess would be around $300.00 or less at on line discounts.Exactly. A basic (I wouldn't say Bachmann, let's go for a Zephyr or Power Cab) system with an extra throttle or two for around $300, plus say $30 each to chip 10 engines (a nice number, for a single operator) is well south of $1500. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not really sure what the OP's point was. He doesn't use DCC, and that's fine. But his logic doesn't hold together very well, and could send someone just starting out heading for cover based on misleading, or at least incomplete, information. Jeff,The cost of DCC does add up if you have a basement size layout that requires several locomotives..I have seen home layouts that was bigger then the club I was a member of at the time..This guy use no less then 70 locomotives(2 engines per train) not including yard engines.Of course that may be a exceptional size home layout but,still a prime example how DCC costs can add up just in decoders..A more average size layout with modest operation may not even require 10 locomotives depending on layout design.Extra throotles can cost up to $229.99 msrp for a DT400 Super Radio Throttle from Digitrax even the old UT2 had a $99.95 msrp..All I am saying DCC *can be * costly depending on the modeler's DCC tastes.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Jeff,A very basic Bachmann DCC system can be had for around $100.00 plus some Bachmann DCC equipped locomotives.I suspect the final cost would be around $500.00 at full price..It would be less then that at discount.My guess would be around $300.00 or less at on line discounts.Exactly. A basic (I wouldn't say Bachmann, let's go for a Zephyr or Power Cab) system with an extra throttle or two for around $300, plus say $30 each to chip 10 engines (a nice number, for a single operator) is well south of $1500. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not really sure what the OP's point was. He doesn't use DCC, and that's fine. But his logic doesn't hold together very well, and could send someone just starting out heading for cover based on misleading, or at least incomplete, information.
BRAKIE wrote: Jeff,A very basic Bachmann DCC system can be had for around $100.00 plus some Bachmann DCC equipped locomotives.I suspect the final cost would be around $500.00 at full price..It would be less then that at discount.My guess would be around $300.00 or less at on line discounts.
Jeff,A very basic Bachmann DCC system can be had for around $100.00 plus some Bachmann DCC equipped locomotives.I suspect the final cost would be around $500.00 at full price..It would be less then that at discount.My guess would be around $300.00 or less at on line discounts.
Exactly. A basic (I wouldn't say Bachmann, let's go for a Zephyr or Power Cab) system with an extra throttle or two for around $300, plus say $30 each to chip 10 engines (a nice number, for a single operator) is well south of $1500. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not really sure what the OP's point was. He doesn't use DCC, and that's fine. But his logic doesn't hold together very well, and could send someone just starting out heading for cover based on misleading, or at least incomplete, information.
Jeff,The cost of DCC does add up if you have a basement size layout that requires several locomotives..I have seen home layouts that was bigger then the club I was a member of at the time..This guy use no less then 70 locomotives(2 engines per train) not including yard engines.Of course that may be a exceptional size home layout but,still a prime example how DCC costs can add up just in decoders..A more average size layout with modest operation may not even require 10 locomotives depending on layout design.Extra throotles can cost up to $229.99 msrp for a DT400 Super Radio Throttle from Digitrax even the old UT2 had a $99.95 msrp..
All I am saying DCC *can be * costly depending on the modeler's DCC tastes.
Brakie-
Of course that's true. I'm just saying that the original poster seemed to indicate a much more modest layout, which he operates alone. Based on that, I am assuming that the cost (for him) would be a lot less than $1500, at least for a relatively apples to apples system. Sure, if he adds wireless and sound, etc., he could spend a lot more, but he's getting a lot more, too. I think we are just looking at different sides of the coin. I'm thinking about what he would need to spend to get the DCC equivalent of what he has (which still adds capability), you are thinking about what he could spend to get a more advanced system. They are both true, I think.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
marknewton wrote:But really, everytime DCC gets mentioned this tired old line about " I have 974 locos, I can't afford to buy decoders for all of them!!!" gets dutifully trotted out, as if it were a fundamental flaw of DCC., Well, it isn't, it's like everything else in life, it's about how much do you want to spend, how much can you afford to sspend. If after careful consideration, you decide you don't want to spend money on DCC, good on yer! But don't turn around and try to pass that choice off as a failing of DCC.
But really, everytime DCC gets mentioned this tired old line about " I have 974 locos, I can't afford to buy decoders for all of them!!!" gets dutifully trotted out, as if it were a fundamental flaw of DCC., Well, it isn't, it's like everything else in life, it's about how much do you want to spend, how much can you afford to sspend. If after careful consideration, you decide you don't want to spend money on DCC, good on yer! But don't turn around and try to pass that choice off as a failing of DCC.
I agree with your thoughts on this part and it's too bad too many people fall into this mentality. Baby steps is the way to go.
marknewton wrote:Well, I think it's a good thought. I'll sneak one of my own in here, and suggest that this business of having too many locos to convert is a good argument in favour of modelling a particular time/place/prototype. The discipline imposed by this approach means that you can afford a small roster of the best locomotives on the market. The bowerbird approach, where you have 974 locos of varying degrees of quality and realism becomes a thing of the past. Just a thought...Cheers,Mark.
Well, I think it's a good thought. I'll sneak one of my own in here, and suggest that this business of having too many locos to convert is a good argument in favour of modelling a particular time/place/prototype. The discipline imposed by this approach means that you can afford a small roster of the best locomotives on the market. The bowerbird approach, where you have 974 locos of varying degrees of quality and realism becomes a thing of the past. Just a thought...Cheers,Mark.
On this part I partially disagree since I'm one of those "bowerbirds?" in that I want to amass a large fleet of locomotives. My purpose in doing this is that I want to collect at least one of each type of engine that I like. If I plan on running them, then I get more than one. The difference though is that for the most part, I just want to display them, so I get or make dummy locos. I do have powered locos too, but if and when I venture into DCC, I wont convert every single one I own to run on DCC, I'll probably just do some. All the locos I have, I'm making sure they're of equal quality and realism in the details deptartment.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I was DC for years. Now that I'm DCC I can't beleive that DC trains ever interested me!
Obr
selector wrote:Hey, if we have to use logic in these discussions....I mean....what's the fun in that?
Hey, if we have to use logic in these discussions....I mean....what's the fun in that?
Methinks this was bait.
On a more serious note, I hope that the OP is as most of us suspect...someone who has amassed a lifetime of possessions and now feels hopelessly behind the 8-ball now that he is slowly succumbing to the urge to try DCC. In that case, he is surely at the bottom of an expensive hill. But, if you want to play with the big boys...so to speak...maybe he can do what so many of you fellas do and sell some of his stash/hoard/treasury on ebay and finance a decent entry plan to the modern way of doing things. Just a thought.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:Actually, we don't know much at all, and he hasn't been back, at least not to post.
Actually, we don't know much at all, and he hasn't been back, at least not to post.
I'm thinking he somehow wants to justify in his own mind not going to DCC, and was looking for support for that position. The think is, the only person he has to make happy is himself. If he doesn't want to go DCC because he thinks something better is down the road that's fine. I'm sure something better is down the road, at some point in time. But that doesn't mean that DCC isn't a good solution at this point in time...
Some day, when battery technology catches up. In the meantime, I will enjoy my DCC. Hardly an early adopter, DCC was 10 years old before I switched.
It's no big deal in G scale, plenty of volume for batteries in locos and/or a trailing car, which gives plenty of running time. But HO trains are what, 1/4 the size, which trnaslates to 1/16th the volume. If you model modern equipent with big hi-cube cars adn auto racks, yeah you can get a nice big battery in HO, but then you can never switch out the car immediately behind the loco. With better motors and better battery technology, it migth just be doable in HO today - my Stewart switchers draw something on the order of 0.02 amp when running, except there's no room to stuff a battery in them. I do see a day in the future when it will all work though, with power pickups that charge the battery - reverse loops can be electrically dead, if hidden track gets dirty, no big deal, as long as there is some place power can be picked up. The ultimate would be for steam locos, with power pickups at water tanks so you have to make periodic water stops to 'fill the tank'. If I were building a G scale layout today, i would definitely use RC and batteries, and not try to power all the track, especially outdoors. It's just not practical in smaller scales yet.
Now, about N and Z scale.......
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is one of the reasons I went with DCC this time around...
(No, its not mine. Mine wasn't nearly this neat.)
I've "been there, done that" (haven't we all?) and call me crazy but I would rather spend my time doing other things than wiring control panels.
George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
marknewton wrote: CSX Robert wrote:Does anybody know how many locomotives bnycrail has?Or how much they cost? I presume that he paid for them. Odd then, how he baulks at buying 100 decoders at $15 each, yet he can amass a fleet of over 100 locos, at how much per unit? Cheers,Mark.
CSX Robert wrote:Does anybody know how many locomotives bnycrail has?
Interesting post from one who hasn't experienced DCC for themselves. I predict that DCC will be just like that of Personal Computers - they aren't a fad and they will be around for the rest of our lives. DCC may morph and evolve but almost every manufacturer will attempt to make their system backwards compatible in order to maintain market share - just like most PC manufacturers did. Those that didn't either have very small market share or none at all (as they are out of business).
As for bnycrail, go out and try a few different DCC systems on other people's layouts.
Bill Carl (modeling Chessie and predecessors from 1973-1983) Member of Four County Society of Model Engineers NCE DCC Master Visit the FCSME at www.FCSME.org Modular railroading at its best! If it has an X in it, it sucks! And yes, I just had my modeler's license renewed last week!
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:Actually, we don't know much at all, and he hasn't been back, at least not to post...I'm thinking he somehow wants to justify in his own mind not going to DCC, and was looking for support for that position.
Jeff,
My gut feeling from the beginning of this thread was that the OP had very little interest in actually hearing discussion on the topic; only to verbalize generalizations/opinions on DCC then see where the regulars took it from there. I could be wrong but the lack of response by the OP sends up a red flag to me.
I am pleased that the topic discussion has been cordial by everyone so far.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
To each his own, as they say. You guys with small layouts and a few engines that were bought with DCC, or can easily be converted, can certainly benefit from DCC operation. More power, and good fortune, to you.
Those of us who have a lifetime collection (in my case, since 1948 with Varney Docksides and an ABBA lashup up Varney F units in Reading colors) can't even begin to consider the time, cost and benefits of converting a fleet of engines that are not now, and never will be again availble.
The biggest advantage of DCC is said by many to be the abillity to control more than one train at a time. DUH! I have run as many 5 trains at one time using a block signal system that also controls slowing trains at a yellow board and stopping them at a Red (stop and stay stopped) signal. With DC there is no way for a head on cornfield meet, and with this system there is never a rear ender.
I am not opposed to DCC. I regard DCC as a great leap forward in model train operation. But for myself, and probably thousands of others, it is just not in the cards. A big PLUS is that I can buy three new DC engines for the price of two with DCC and sound installed. When all is said and done, they are just model engines on the track, with the method of control being total indescernible. I would rather have more for my money.
THERE IS NO DEBATE! If you are in a position to start with, or invest in the conversion of, DCC by all means. I only wish I could.
For me, I would rather spend my available funds on acquiring the engines and rolling stock to fill out my roster, and improving scenery, etc. than dump all of those big bucks on something that will give me almost no cost effective benefit.
I can't blame the OP for being hesitant on DCC. I'm still deciding on VHS or Beta. And how do you stop the time display from blinking all 12's?
Actually, we don't know much at all, and he hasn't been back, at least not to post. And we've managed to kick a DCC discussion around for a day without nastiness! I think that's a new world record. I'm thinking he somehow wants to justify in his own mind not going to DCC, and was looking for support for that position. The think is, the only person he has to make happy is himself. If he doesn't want to go DCC because he thinks something better is down the road that's fine. I'm sure something better is down the road, at some point in time. But that doesn't mean that DCC isn't a good solution at this point in time. Or DC, in certain situations. Of course I armchaired for almost twenty years before I actually built something......
Jeff,A very basic Bachmann DCC system can be had for around $100.00 plus some Bachmann DCC equipped locomotives.I suspect the final cost would be around $500.00 at full price..It would be less then that at discount.My guess would be around $300.00 or less at on line discounts if he wants a basic system.
loathar wrote: BRAKIE wrote:Actually the $1500.00 is about the right price for a quaility DCC system and quailty DCC equipped locomotives...Even the the Zephyr is $199.99..Now add extra throttles,booster(if needed) and the price of DCC adds up..I know..I have a Empire Builder II and 4 extra throttles and had 6 sound equipped locomotives..Final cost around $1600.00..A real eye opener for me. Thank God! Another voice of reason...
BRAKIE wrote:Actually the $1500.00 is about the right price for a quaility DCC system and quailty DCC equipped locomotives...Even the the Zephyr is $199.99..Now add extra throttles,booster(if needed) and the price of DCC adds up..I know..I have a Empire Builder II and 4 extra throttles and had 6 sound equipped locomotives..Final cost around $1600.00..A real eye opener for me.
Thank God! Another voice of reason...
But the original poster (who doesn't seem to have returned) said he was a lone operator. So he most likely doesn't need four extra throttles, boosters, etc. If he wants sound, that's nice, but it is not a base cost of a DCC system to replace his DC, which was (or at least seemed to be) his cost basis. Based on his (minimal) description of his setup, I think his $1500 number is high, at least to do a one-to-one upgrade. Sure, he could spend $1500, or a heck of a lot more, but he would have also added a lot of functionality.
On the other end of the spectrum, I just bought a Zephyr a few months ago for the new layout I'm building. I paid about the same a Brakie did for it, added a $16 decoder to an "old technology" Athearn swithcer, I was up and running with DCC - for about the same as one would pay for a couple of "new technology" DCC equipped locos. I was even able to run independent locos right away - one DCC and one DC - at the same time.
Since it was an old Athearn that I put my decoder in, I didn't even need a sound unit thanks to the ubiquitous "Athearn Growl"
What I didn't have to do was buy a ton of DPDT center off switches and spend hours upon hours wiring control panels (anyone who can wire a two cab control panel will have no problem installing a DCC decoder) and running miles of wire under the layout.
Yeah, eventually, I'll have to buy a couple of walk around throttles and maybe a booster, but I still think I'll be ahead of the game as compared to straight DC.
My real dollar investment since starting in this hobby in late 2005 is $4600. My DCC investment, which includes Digitrax Zephyr, a few non-sound decoders, and the incremental difference for DCC/sound locos is $460 - 10% of my total expenditure. For me, that's a pretty small price to pay for the perceived convenience and features provided by DCC. (I say perceived because being a newcomer, I've never done DC)
Although I'm not quite as...ahem, mature as ARTHILL (57 last month), like him I'm not too concerned about 10 years down-the-road technology - I'm happy where I'm at.
Starting from scratch, it was an easy decision for me to go right into DCC, but I can see where it can be tough if you already have a large fleet of non-DCC motive power.
Threads on control systems get funny at time, bad information, conjecture, what if's are always fun.
My current three deck HO layout was started in 1988. It was operated by a pre dcc product called Dynatrol. Worked well, had some limitations and was certainly expensive for receivers and the guts to run the system. Only ran on 18 channels also.
I switched to DCC in 1999, settled on NCE. Didn't have to rewire the railroad, it already had power busses and such, just had to remove the Dynatrol and install the NCE. Didn't cost me 1500 dollars either. I have stayed with DCC including the NCE radio. I operate with a group, but also operate solo and wouldn't begin to think of dropping the DCC. I started in HO in 1958 with DC, and had my fill of it.
Mention has also been made of radio control/battery. I have a garden railroad in the backyard, started in it in 1989 after an NMRA region event in Omaha where I saw my first garden railroad.
I decided from the gitgo I didn't want to use track power outdoors, started trying various radio control/battery power, which was more for aircraft than trains and ended up wth RCS systems.
The cabs are similar to DCC as far as functions, use a 9 volt battery. The diesels are equipped with new technology battery packs which give me over 3 hours of running, and recharge quickly. I have additional battery pack freight cars that can be used during a running session.
I don't have to fuss with wiring outdoors, or the problems of conductivity. The radio is easier to install than DCC in an HO loco. The bottom line is you buy what gives you the functionality that you want, you test it to make sure it works, and then you enjoy your railroading. The NCE isn't perfect, but after operating on other layouts with other brands of DCC, I am thankful for the decision to NCE. Also having run on garden railroads using conventional track power, I am completely sold on my decision for radio/battery.
You can debate the subject until the cows come home, but ultimately you buy what works for you, or sit around and gripe with the group.
Bob
$1500?
I bought a Zepher for $149 two weeks ago. I have a 5x9 and two large ovals with swithes. I will add more wires but as of now I am running two engines at the same time and it is so much fun I have a hard time walking away. These forums really swayed me to go DCC. I only have two wires touching the track and have had no real issues. So I am not sure where the $1500 is spent. The zepher says in the manual that you can run dc and DCC just not at the same time. There is a learning curve though.
As for the R/C stuff well I do have many hobby R/C cars and trucks and there is a big difference when comparing to DCC. Using AM and FM transmitters around a metal track with eletricity does not sound cool. Though I am sure it is possible. If you like DCC than go for it. Dc is ok too. I just like the zepher and learning something new. That is from a newbie.
$149 for a Zepher
$200 for a Genesis SP A/B black widow
$180 for a BLI SP 2-8-2 SP light Mikado
$200 track
Controlling two trains at once and blowing the whisle:
PRICELESS
tomikawaTT wrote: Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: tomikawaTT wrote: As another analog DC holdout, I don't find the $1,500 estimate unreasonable. How many locos will have to be converted? How many other grand whoop-te-do functions (like turnout control) will be included. What quality are we talking about, beginner el cheapo 4-function or all the bells and whistles (plus exhaust chuff, turbogenerator whine,...) How big is the layout, how many power zones with a booster for each, how much....If I were to clamber aboard the DCC bandwagon, going whole hog would easily cost me $1500, if I were to include the drive upgrades necessary to make DCC with sound worthwhile in '60s brass steam (with open frame motors and noisy gears.)All of this is true. My point is that it isn't fair to talk about the cost to go 'whole hog', only the cost to get the functionality the original poster has now. The rest is 'bells and whistles' so to speak. It is entirely possible, even likely, that one would go further, but that the additional extra cost should not be used as an argument against DCC.Please don't think that I'm running down DCC. Far from it. I am fully aware of its advantages for people who want realistic operation from the one train they are running. I am equally aware of the tradeoffs I would have to make to switch - and I choose not to.And there is clearly nothing wrong with that. Just for curiosity's sake (and not to start a flame war, as I think that is not either of our styles) what would you do if you were starting now?If I were to change scales (to On30) and limit myself to my two favorite 762mm prototypes (Kiso Forestry Railway and Kurobe Railway) I would go DCC in a heartbeat. With those prototypes, I would WANT to follow a single train through the canyons - and I wouldn't have to concern myself with four, six or a dozen other trains needing attention because there wouldn't BE four, six or a dozen other trains needing attention.Of course, I would also have about 1/10th of my present powered roster.If, OTOH, I was going to build the same railroad I'm now building, I'd probably end up with a lot of old locos (not manufactured recently) bought used. Also, I use a lot of automatic features (based on brute force, ignorance and cheap diodes) that can only be reproduced in DCC by programming a computer with a lot of layout-specific code - something a little outside of my area of expertise. The cheap and easy choice would still be analog DC, modified MZL system.The only difference is that I'd have a lot more money invested in it. Some of my bought-in-Japan brass locos cost less than the decoders needed to convert them - about 5% of the present-day cost of equivalent units.Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with 1960's control technology)
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: tomikawaTT wrote: As another analog DC holdout, I don't find the $1,500 estimate unreasonable. How many locos will have to be converted? How many other grand whoop-te-do functions (like turnout control) will be included. What quality are we talking about, beginner el cheapo 4-function or all the bells and whistles (plus exhaust chuff, turbogenerator whine,...) How big is the layout, how many power zones with a booster for each, how much....If I were to clamber aboard the DCC bandwagon, going whole hog would easily cost me $1500, if I were to include the drive upgrades necessary to make DCC with sound worthwhile in '60s brass steam (with open frame motors and noisy gears.)All of this is true. My point is that it isn't fair to talk about the cost to go 'whole hog', only the cost to get the functionality the original poster has now. The rest is 'bells and whistles' so to speak. It is entirely possible, even likely, that one would go further, but that the additional extra cost should not be used as an argument against DCC.Please don't think that I'm running down DCC. Far from it. I am fully aware of its advantages for people who want realistic operation from the one train they are running. I am equally aware of the tradeoffs I would have to make to switch - and I choose not to.And there is clearly nothing wrong with that. Just for curiosity's sake (and not to start a flame war, as I think that is not either of our styles) what would you do if you were starting now?
tomikawaTT wrote: As another analog DC holdout, I don't find the $1,500 estimate unreasonable. How many locos will have to be converted? How many other grand whoop-te-do functions (like turnout control) will be included. What quality are we talking about, beginner el cheapo 4-function or all the bells and whistles (plus exhaust chuff, turbogenerator whine,...) How big is the layout, how many power zones with a booster for each, how much....If I were to clamber aboard the DCC bandwagon, going whole hog would easily cost me $1500, if I were to include the drive upgrades necessary to make DCC with sound worthwhile in '60s brass steam (with open frame motors and noisy gears.)All of this is true. My point is that it isn't fair to talk about the cost to go 'whole hog', only the cost to get the functionality the original poster has now. The rest is 'bells and whistles' so to speak. It is entirely possible, even likely, that one would go further, but that the additional extra cost should not be used as an argument against DCC.Please don't think that I'm running down DCC. Far from it. I am fully aware of its advantages for people who want realistic operation from the one train they are running. I am equally aware of the tradeoffs I would have to make to switch - and I choose not to.And there is clearly nothing wrong with that. Just for curiosity's sake (and not to start a flame war, as I think that is not either of our styles) what would you do if you were starting now?
As another analog DC holdout, I don't find the $1,500 estimate unreasonable. How many locos will have to be converted? How many other grand whoop-te-do functions (like turnout control) will be included. What quality are we talking about, beginner el cheapo 4-function or all the bells and whistles (plus exhaust chuff, turbogenerator whine,...) How big is the layout, how many power zones with a booster for each, how much....
If I were to clamber aboard the DCC bandwagon, going whole hog would easily cost me $1500, if I were to include the drive upgrades necessary to make DCC with sound worthwhile in '60s brass steam (with open frame motors and noisy gears.)
All of this is true. My point is that it isn't fair to talk about the cost to go 'whole hog', only the cost to get the functionality the original poster has now. The rest is 'bells and whistles' so to speak. It is entirely possible, even likely, that one would go further, but that the additional extra cost should not be used as an argument against DCC.
Please don't think that I'm running down DCC. Far from it. I am fully aware of its advantages for people who want realistic operation from the one train they are running. I am equally aware of the tradeoffs I would have to make to switch - and I choose not to.
And there is clearly nothing wrong with that. Just for curiosity's sake (and not to start a flame war, as I think that is not either of our styles) what would you do if you were starting now?
If I were to change scales (to On30) and limit myself to my two favorite 762mm prototypes (Kiso Forestry Railway and Kurobe Railway) I would go DCC in a heartbeat. With those prototypes, I would WANT to follow a single train through the canyons - and I wouldn't have to concern myself with four, six or a dozen other trains needing attention because there wouldn't BE four, six or a dozen other trains needing attention.
Of course, I would also have about 1/10th of my present powered roster.
If, OTOH, I was going to build the same railroad I'm now building, I'd probably end up with a lot of old locos (not manufactured recently) bought used. Also, I use a lot of automatic features (based on brute force, ignorance and cheap diodes) that can only be reproduced in DCC by programming a computer with a lot of layout-specific code - something a little outside of my area of expertise. The cheap and easy choice would still be analog DC, modified MZL system.
The only difference is that I'd have a lot more money invested in it. Some of my bought-in-Japan brass locos cost less than the decoders needed to convert them - about 5% of the present-day cost of equivalent units.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with 1960's control technology)
You know, despite the appearance that DCC is what you would think you'd use to automate, there is something to be said for DC! I have often thought that the 'gap' in using DCC to really automate things is describing the layout to the computer. I think it is a lot harder than it sounds. With DC and brute force you can get around that.
I see you are in the Southwest, and you layout sounds very interesting. I have visited Japan a couple of times (working), and was really fascinated by the train system. Narrow gauge on the one hand, to the Shinkansen on the other.... I may have to convince you to invite me to visit someday!
Yeah, but the all the guys who have NEVER CONVERTED OR RUN DCC ON A REAL SYSTEM think that you should "convert your whole fleet" and go "all or nothing", putting your non-converted locos "on the shelf".
Heck, my DC locos aren't on the shelf, they are parked on an isolated siding and brought out and run around the track daily.
Why does everyone always assume they have to convert their whole fleet of locomotives instantly? I've been running DCC since before most people knew how to spell it and I still don't have the "whole fleet" converted probably never will. That doesn't stop me from running them. Like jfallon says, just unplug the DCC unit, plug in the good old MRC Ampak II and go. OR set the throttle to channel zero. It isn't black and white - it is gray.
This could be one reason I'm not as smitten with DCC and sound as most people are. It is old hat almost hum-drum technology.