FORUM CLINIC: 12 years using DCC - SIGNIFICANT NEW INFO!

[jfugate]

Nope, you didn't miss it ... I just have never gotten around to posting it.

Guess I should one of these days, aye?

[jcopilot]

Hey Joe,

You ended the topic "Super Simple Decoder Programming with DecoderPro" with a note that the next topic would be "Cool Ways to Use DecoderPro for Programming on the Main". This was quite a while ago and I'm wondering if I missed that next topic. I've been 'copy and paste'ing useful information from this clinic and I really appreciate your work in this and the other clinics.

Jcopilot

[AntonioFP45]

Joe,

Thanks for the info and diagrams on Decoder Pro (it's back on page 3 of this thread). You made it easier to understand.

Roger that.

[jfugate]

A couple further comments on the 1156 bulbs and shorts ...

Because the 1156 bulb circuit when shorted is technically not a short, but is instead now a circuit with the 1156 bulb as the load, that's why the booster never sees a short ... there isn't any short. The bulb works really slick for this!

My friend and fellow modeler Charlie Comstock wired the 1156 bulbs in using a SPDT-center off toggle switch. You throw the toggle one way, and the 1156 bulb is in the circuit. Throw the toggle the other way, and the 1156 bulb is not in the circuit -- and you get your normal booster short protection. Throw the toggle to the center position and you kill the power to the block, which is handy for debugging.

This gives Charlie the best of both worlds ... he can try running the railroad with the bulbs in the circuit, or not. After trying things both ways, Charlie typically leaves the toggles set to the 1156 bulb short protection setting now, by the way.

[jfugate]

The 1156 bulbs limit the current to just under 2 amps, and remember the bulb is acting as the new load, so technically, it's not even a short ... it's a circuit with an 1156 bulb as its load. So the damage should be minimal, if any.

A short does damage when it doesn't have a load -- there's lots of free energy that usually gets released in the form of heat, and it's the heat that does the damage. You shouldn't see much heat with an 1156 bulb in the circuit, except the bulb itself.

Take another look at my demo video: http://mymemoirs.net/preview.php ... I drop the quarter on the track and then leave it there for several seconds while I keep talking. If that was an ordinary short with no bulb in the circuit, that quarter would get hot very quickly. But as it is with the 1156 bulb, the quarter doesn't heat up at all ... no more than any wire in a normal 1156 bulb circuit does.

[Anonymous]

I have a question on the 1156 bulb.... I'm building a new N layout which is DCC and needs to be Child Friendly.... If one of my sons causes a short, bulb comes on but they don't come get me and leave it, what kind of damage to the rails am I going to end up with??? The system is run with a Prodigy Advance.... I want to be able to leave the room without fearing them welding while I'm gone.... I know the prodigy itself is limited to 2.5 amps....

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher


Also, bumping a thread only means that it gets filled up with dozens of posts all saying "bump". A bit of a waste, if you ask me when it could simply be "stickied".

Yeah, there is that. I get tired of going to see what's new in the thread and seeing only "Bump" or some variant....

[Bob Hayes]

Bump

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton
Well, the clinics get bumped back to the top on a regular basis, so I think they get pretty good visibility.

If only that were true for all three of Joe's clinics. This happens to be the most read, so it gets bumped often. Only the gods know exactly where the other two Forum Clinics have gone...

Also, bumping a thread only means that it gets filled up with dozens of posts all saying "bump". A bit of a waste, if you ask me when it could simply be "stickied".

[Pruitt]

Well, the clinics get bumped back to the top on a regular basis, so I think they get pretty good visibility.

[chateauricher]

Sure, bookmarking forum threads is great ... for those who know the threads exist.

But what about those newbies who don't know about these clinics ? They have to resort to wading through all the back pages to find this (and other) threads. Then, there are, of course, those of us who access the forums from computers other than the one at home (ie: at work; friend's; etc.) where we can't have personal bookmarks.

So, the best option would be to put this (and other useful threads) in a locked and stickied topic. Despite the efforts of myself and many other members, Bergie seems not to agree with us (or so it seems since he hasn't stickied any threads).

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwr_1986

Joe if you bookmark it you won't have to dig. If you use the firefox browser so you can really organize bookmarks you can have a whole folder of them right on the toolbar. it really saves time.

Jesse

Gee, being an internet developer in my day job, did I think of this? NO. Go figure. [xx(]

Well, I've done it now, and sure nuff, it helps find it.

What's the chance everyone on here who wants to refer to this info will have thought of this? Probably not as good as we would hope.

I feel a FORUM mini-CLINIC coming on ... how to never lose the forum's best postings.

Be pretty handy if we at least had one permanent sticky at the top of the forum with links to all the most useful threads. Point is there are ways to really leverage this internet forum thing ...

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Joe if you bookmark it you won't have to dig. If you use the firefox browser so you can really organize bookmarks you can have a whole folder of them right on the toolbar. it really saves time.

As Jessie indicates, this is also true for IE. I simply created a folder in Favorites called Clinics and then drop the link from the address bar into them.

[electrolove]

Bump!

[Anonymous]

Bump. This needs to have a sticky on it, or something.

[jwr_1986]

Joe if you bookmark it you won't have to dig. If you use the firefox browser so you can really organize bookmarks you can have a whole folder of them right on the toolbar. it really saves time.

Jesse

[jfugate]

Sheesh ... this is on the third page within a few hours.

This is getting ridiculous ... we need to do something for "keeper info" threads to get them outta here. Leaving them in the general discussion area is for the birds ... they are just getting lost in the din, and I for one am getting real tired of digging through the general discussion forum over and over trying to find this thread. [xx(]

[chateauricher]

bump

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Joe, I wanted to throw in another tip that may save some folks some grief programming with the program track. Lenz decoders (also found in the first Atlas non sound DCC and I beleive the Bachmann DCC offerings) do not put enough load on the programming track and are often not recognized by the DCC system. On the Zephyr, this is indicated by a dnd error message. A 1K resistor accross the track solves the problem. Since the 1K resistor is not needed for other brands of decoder you can either build it into the program track switch circuit, or make a simple rig with a 1K resistor and a pair of aligator clips. I have used this solution and it works like a charm.

Had this same problem. Thought I had a bad Atlas loco and or Lenz decoder and sent it back. Next time, I'll know. Thanks. This stuff is just great!

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Here's how to wire a programming track properly so it's safe to have it connected to the rest of the layout.

Glad I came across this link. I'm drawing up a new HO layout for garage and have added this tip to my plan. Totally forgot about the programming track. Great.

[fdmajor]

Joe & Tom;

Thanks so much for the photos and explaination of running power bus lines.

Joe, if you can post a photo or two, I sure would appreciate it. [bow]

I'm still a little unclear about the "purpose" of the sub-bus.

Do some people use the sub-bus for "Only" street lights, crossing lights ,building lights and so on?
Also, is this sub-bus hooked to a separate power supply (booster)?

Thanks Again, Hope everyone had a Great Week-End...

Don

[jfugate]

Don:

I cover some of your questions in my DCC video ... a picture is worth a thousand words, as they say.

I'll see if I can post a few photos for you in the next few days.

Tom is right ... nothing fancy. The bus connects up to the booster output, then runs around the layout along the front edge, with terminal strip feeds every few feet for track feeders. At the end, the wires just hang lose, no special termination is needed.

To make sense out of the following, consult my track diagram on my web site: http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/layoutDesign/trackPlan.html

My upper bus for the main starts at the booster at the Roseburg/North Bend end of the layout, and runs all the way around the room to Cottage Grove, for a total distance of about 100 feet (the room is 50 feet long).

Roseburg itself is on its own booster, also located under North Bend.

Dillard and staging are fed off a separate booster, also located under the North Bend end of the layout.

The lower deck main is fed off yet another booster, located under North Bend. The total bus wire run is about 100 feet.

And finally, Coos Bay and North Bend are on a separate booster, for a total of 5 boosters, all fed from under the North Bend area, and all using #12 guage bus wire.

And of course, if you watch the video clip on 1156 bulb short management, you know my layout is busted up into train length blocks to make short management easier. I have about 27 such blocks on the layout. If you haven't seen this video clip, you can watch it here: http://mymemoirs.net/preview.php

Each block has its own third bus wire, also 12 guage. One side of the block gets its track feeds off this third bus. This third bus is fed off one of the main bus wires, through an 1156 bulb and a toggle switch, which makes the entire block protected by an 1156 bulb in case something shorts.

The layout was not originally wired with the train length blocks and believe me everyone knew where the booster block boundaries were whenever something shorted because everything quit running in that booster block until the short was cleared. Now with the 1156 bulbs, no one knows or cares where the booster blocks are located because shorts have become a local event, only affecting the guy who gets the short.

Rewiring the layout with the train length blocks took me and a helper three 8 hour days of work and cost me about $100 in materials. It's the best thing I've ever done electrically to the layout, well worth the 20-some hours of extra work it took to redo the wiring this way. [swg]

[tsasala]

Start at one end, run the wire around, and just let it hang at the other end.

I think Joe has some pictures on his site. Here are some of my layout:

http://www.cyberrailguru.com/gallery/ig_wiring

http://www.cyberrailguru.com/gallery/ig_trackwork

I haven't gotten around to the sub-bus part, but I have all the pieces ready to go.

-Tom

[fdmajor]

Hello,

Could someone PLEASE supply me with a drawing, picture, or a link to a site that has drawings or pictures of;

The main BUS Wire run under a layout?
Some pictures or drawing of How to run a Main Bus Wire?
Some pictures or drawing of how to run and wire a sub-bus wire?
(taking in consideration of , and using the 1156 bulbs)

Also, I have read here about just running the bus around and under the layout, OK,
(I have a 4x8 layout)

What do I do with the END of the run of wire???

Thanks AGAIN for your Help,
"I will get this right (The DCC Wiring Thing) , sooner or later" with your help. Thanks for your time and understanding my lack of brains, when it comes to DCC...

Have a Good Day...

Don

[Anonymous]

.

[NZRMac]

And very well presented too!![:D][:D]

Ken.

[jfugate]

Ron:

Happy to help out. Like I tell people when I do a face-to-face clinic ... this is how I do it on the Siskiyou Line and it works for me. I realize you may have other ideas and prefer to do it differently than me, and that's okay.

But I think it's important to share ideas that have stood the test of time, and that's mostly what I try to present.

[n2mopac]

Thanks for your input, Joe. I will take all of this under consideration as I build.

Ron

[jfugate]

Ron:

I run feeders to each track section and do not rely on rail joiners.

However, if the track section is shorter than 1 foot in length, I solder one end to an adjacent track with feeders. On turnouts, I solder the joiners on the point end.

This means that most of the time, all the rail joiners in a yard ladder are soldered.

Some mention they like to not solder rail joiners so they can replace the turnouts if there is a problem. On the Siskiyou Line, I've only replaced a couple turnouts in nearly 14 years of operation (I have some 120 turnouts on the layout). I cut through the rail joiner with a motor tool, then use a soldering iron and solder wick to remove the solder and half-joiner on the track that remains.

I prefer the reliability to the ease of replacement, figuring that planning first to allow easy turnout replacement is planning to fail. I'd rather plan for reliable, trouble-free operation first, take my time to install the turnout right and then just live with any extra effort to replace something if that ever is needed.

[n2mopac]

Joe,

I haven't been around in a while (like 2 months). Things get pretty crazy for me at work August through December. Well, since my last post I have installed my first two decoders--one drop-in in an Atlas GP40 (easy 10 minute job) and one complicated installation of a Z scale decoder in a non DCC ready Life Like N scale SW9. I blew one decoder in the process there, but Digitrax replaced it cheap and the secod go-round went flawlessly.

I am in the process of building my major yard. I am running feeders to every yard track (approx. 4'6" long each) but I am wondering about reliable wiring for the ladder. I would prefer not to solder the trunouts in place, but will they get reliable power from the yard tracks through the joiners without running feeders to eacy turnout (whick I also do not want to do)? Tell me how you wire your yard ladders and tracks.

Thanks,
Ron