FORUM CLINIC: 12 years using DCC - SIGNIFICANT NEW INFO!

[BriansGrandy]

I could not agree more wholeheartedly with what was said in the first 2 paragraphs. I could have bought my DCC system years ago if I had all the money back that I spent on additional power packs, block control switches, extra wiring, etc. Your point is also well taken about the fleet size. When I converted last month, I only had 8 locos. I was able to convert all 8 and install a Zephyr system in less than 2 hours for $300.

[pcarrell]

Bump

[jfugate]

Take a look at 3rd-Planit. Very nice piece of software for layout design -- once you get past the learning curve.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Joe,

I had sort of pieced that together from some of the other posts, I ended up reading all 17 or 18 pages of the post yesterday. Electrically, this reduces the load across each of the individual taps, which is probably a good thing as well. It would certainly allow you to use even smaller tap wires from the bus to the track.

Thanks for the reply, and for the clinic.

I am just in the process of researching everything right now, my son and I have been running some off-the-shelf DC stuff on Bachman E-Z track, we've just been playing with it, but when I started reading about DCC I became intrigued, and am currently just soaking up everything I can before I decide on "how big" I want to go.

Any suggestions on design software? I actually ended up drawing all the EZ-Track pieces to scale in Autocad so I could get some idea of what kind of layouts I could make on our piece of plywood in the garage. I quickly realized how limited I was in trying to do it in autocad, (not to mention the rediculous amount of time it took me just to draw the pieces) and have been checking out some of the packages available commercially. Any help would be appreciated.

Mike

[DavidGSmith]

Joe in an earlier post I said that Al at CVP indicated that a BL 2-8-0 with sound is a difficult one to program as a first loco. I forgot to say that it is On30. Any suggestions re programing would be helpful.
Dave

[jfugate]

Mike:

Thanks for your kind words on my forum clinic content.

The multiple connections is a perhaps lame attempt on my part to indicate you run feeders to individual flex track section in each block, and *do not* rely on rail joiners to carry the electricity.

You can solder rail joints, and I sometimes do in certain cases, but as a general rule, I don't recommend soldering rail joiners everywhere since that limits the track's ability to expand and contract freely with temperature and humidity changes in the seasons.

Make sense?

[Anonymous]

Joe,

I am new to model railroading, and new to trains.com, this was effectivley the first thread I read. Although, this point has been made here already, I think it worth repeating, the information you have provided here is of great value, and I think more importantly your ability to provide it in such a clear manner. You are certainly an asset to this community.

Forgive me for going back in the thread a bit, but I am an electrical engineer, and although I fully understand the benefit of the current limiting capabilites of the 1156 lamp (and am enamored by both the elegance and functionality of this solution) I do have a question pertaining to the following graphic:

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

TOPIC THIS POST: Wiring details for 1156 bulb train blocks
...
Once you add all the toggles, bulbs, and track feeders for your power district, here's what you get. This is the complete wiring to add 1156 bulb short management to your layout.


(clcik to enlarge)
...

In the far left "bulb sub-district" (and the far right "bulb sub-district") you have multiple taps from your main "+" bus and your lamped "-" bus to that sub-section of track. I understand that this sub-section of track would be an average "train length" long, so I am curious why you would have more than one electrical connection here?

Thanks again for all the great information.

Mike

[DavidGSmith]

Canada, just about 1 hr north of Toronto Ont. I had a look at Digikeys book, they did not list one with screw terminals which is what I wanted.

[Bob Hayes]

David,
Are you in California or Canada? If in Calif., have you tried Fry's Electronics for your 4pdt switch? Or on-line at Mouser or Digikey?
Bob Hayes

[DavidGSmith]

Joe,I got my new system ( CVP EASYDCC ) wired in and used your schematic for the programing track. I cannot locate a 4pdt switch so I used two dpdt s. Seems to work but is not as idiot proof as yours. I try to make everything idiot proof. Have to!!
Al at CVP was as great a help as you said he would be. Al warned me that the Broadway 2-8-0 with sound is not a good loco to program as a first engine, any suggestions for this engine would be helpful.
Dave

[devils]

relucas
Will take time but read through this, it contains loads of useful information. There is also another thread about choosing a DCC system buried at least 14 pages down the list. Follow the links to Joe's page too for more bits and pieces.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Joe,
Luckily the free-mo wiring is simple enough to replace if anything goes bad and a 10-year life span of a module, I believe, is more than adequate.
Thanks again,
John B

[jfugate]

JB:

I use 3M type 905 connectors -- 3M colors them red. You can often find these at auto supply stores.

Another more expensive alternative is 3M type 567 connectors - 3M colors them tan. They are more robust and cost more. I've never found the extra price to be worth it. My layout's coming up on 15 years old and I've never had a single 905 suitcase connector fail -- ever.

Some people on here with high humidity environments report some suitcase connector failure at 10+ years, so take that into account. My layout is in a dry and heated basement, and the humidity in Oregon typically runs around 30%, so I'm probably less likely to have issues with these connectors.

[Anonymous]

Joe,
I just found your site and it has been a boon to my DCC learning.
I’m currently wiring a Free-mo module and am interested in the 3M suitcase connectors you use. Do you have a part number for them?
Thank you for starting this site and sharing your information.
John B

[tgsargent]

Joe,

This is only my second post (I do a lot of reading), and I must say I am amazed at the amount of knowledge and experience that is displayed in the 17 pages I have read on this forum. Many, many questions I have had have been answered. I really appreciate you and all contributors taking the time and effort to share this information. I'm looking forward to your next and following segments.

Regards,

Terry

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solosdad

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Now you can see why I'm so insistant that you want to use something like decoderPro to program decoders?

Have you tried speed matching yet with decoderPro? DecoderPro allows you to open the decoder windows for two different decoders *at the same time* which makes speed matching a *breeze* ! There's nothing like point-and-click decoder programming with a mouse on your PC!

Are you saying that with decoder PRO all you need to do is save the speed CVs from one locomotive to another and they will then run the same. Is this true? Is it true regardless of model and make. This was my assumnption when I bought the equipment to do this - but I'm not so sure now . I spoke to one LHS and he still uses the trial and error method of placing two engines on the track and using programming on the main - making adjustments through Decoder Pro.

Boy, I wish setting the CVs in two different locos' decoders would make them run the same. Unfortunately, no, that's not how it works.

Even two locos from the same manufacturer, with identical decoders installed in them, may not run the same if you just copy the decoder settings. Mechanical mechanisms being what they are, two locos from the same manufacturer may run differently -- that's just the way life is.

The beauty of DCC, and especially DecoderPro, is I can get the two locos to run nearly indentically at all speed settings with less effort than just about any other method.

DecoderPro allows you to open up multiple windows on your PC, one for each loco. Then you can bounce back and forth between loco windows, altering decoder speed settings via ops mode programming (aka programming on the main).

I put the two locos on a section of track on my layout where there is a long straight stretch with two parallel tracks, then I alter the CV settings of the two locos until I get them to run neck and neck at any speed setting.

I start with setting the throttle to 1/4 speed (speed step 7 out of 28) and get the locos to start out the same and run together side by side. Then I go to full speed (speed step 28) and get the locos to run neck and neck.

Often, this is all it takes. If the locos run together at speed steps 7 and 28, and the speed curve you've used in DecoderPro has the same contour (straightline, logarithmic, etc.) then the locos will be very closely matched at all the other speed steps.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Say, D:

Now you can see why I'm so insistant that you want to use something like decoderPro to program decoders?

Have you tried speed matching yet with decoderPro? DecoderPro allows you to open the decoder windows for two different decoders *at the same time* which makes speed matching a *breeze* ! There's nothing like point-and-click decoder programming with a mouse on your PC!

As to systems, Digitrax and NCE are both great systems, but I personally prefer the NCE system's true wireless that allows acquiring a loco without having to plug in and its very obvious user interface.

Are you saying that with decoder PRO all you need to do is save the speed CVs from one locomotive to another and they will then run the same. Is this true? Is it true regardless of model and make. This was my assumnption when I bought the equipment to do this - but I'm not so sure now . I spoke to one LHS and he still uses the trial and error method of placing two engines on the track and using programming on the main - making adjustments through Decoder Pro.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by devils

Simon does it give any problems apart from having to point it at the reciever, is there a reasonably wide arc like a tv remote, I assume it's a bit slower than radio to transfer data as well.
Paul

It seems fairly directional to me. You can add more UR90's to the system for better coverage. It seems to respond quickly to me, so if there is a speed difference it is not noticeable.

[devils]

Simon does it give any problems apart from having to point it at the reciever, is there a reasonably wide arc like a tv remote, I assume it's a bit slower than radio to transfer data as well.
Paul

[simon1966]

As far as I am aware neither the NCE or the Digitrax radio can legally be sold outside of the US. This is apparently the main reason Digitrax offers IR to provide some wireless support to customers outside of North America. Paul, I use the Digitrax IR and it is worth noting that it is directional. So careful attention to the placement of the UR90 panel is essential. In my case I have it in the cieling in the center of my layout room (around the walls design) so it works fine for me.

[devils]

Haven't got into speed matching yet, that's next on the list though as it's more use on the diesels I'm going to equip next.
I'm in the UK and got to be careful about radio throttles due to legal frequencies as we have had problems with a friends US Aristo system in g scale which interferes with our LGB radio throttles. That's why i'm considering digitrax as it's the only one I've seen infra red throttles for. I prefer the NCE slightly but still want the cordless so it'll probably depend on what kind of deal I can get.
Thanks
Paul

[jfugate]

Say, D:

Now you can see why I'm so insistant that you want to use something like decoderPro to program decoders?

Have you tried speed matching yet with decoderPro? DecoderPro allows you to open the decoder windows for two different decoders *at the same time* which makes speed matching a *breeze* ! There's nothing like point-and-click decoder programming with a mouse on your PC!

As to systems, Digitrax and NCE are both great systems, but I personally prefer the NCE system's true wireless that allows acquiring a loco without having to plug in and its very obvious user interface.

[devils]

I'm thinking of changing my Forum name to Tsunami! seem to be going on about it so much[:D]
I've set up my programming track with some bachrus saddles and a switch box so I can switch between the PC/ SPROG programmer running DecoderPro and my cheap BachmannEZ DCC unit on the workbench. This allows me to program and test the differences quickly. I spent an hour yesterday using the PC panes to alter the effects and now have a Chinese QJ 2-10-2 that cuts off as you reduce the throttle and then really picks up as it reaches the lower throttle setting. Sounds superb.
It was worth all the mucking around getting the PC unit going, thanks again everyone who questions and answers on this thread, I get all sorts of info I never thought of asking.
Just deciding between a couple of DCC systems. I'm looking at NCE Procab which seems to be popular for it's user friendly control screen against the digitrax with infra red cordless throttles, any major advantage or disadvantage to consider as I haven't managed to get hands on with the NCE system yet?

[oleirish]

Thanks will check it out!
JIM

[NZRMac]

I used a PSREV from Tony's (it doesn't need to be a Bachmann one) for two loops it will only work if only one train at a time enters the loops.

Ken.

[oleirish]

Joe
I'am useing an EZ command DCC,no problems yet .But I'am getting reday to re-do every thing and put the HO in storeage,and start an N-scale,now I'am probley going to have three places with a reverse loop,two train turn a rounds and an turn table ,will one module handle all three loops??The EZ command reverse loop module is $57.00 I would hate to have to buy three of them,in analog a simple DPDT switch was all that was needed!!From what I've read you still have to isolate the turn a round anyway?If I install an bus line It looks like an bunch of wireing,whitch I throught I was getting away for by going to DCC?My bench will be about 36"X10'may be even 36"X8'.(cookie cutter)
Thanks
JIM

[NZRMac]

Thanks Joe, I can sleep at night now. I'd hate to see all the magic smoke leak out of expensive loco's!!

Ken.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac

Joe I'm a bit concerned someone may take your diagram above literally and plug the booster straight into 110V with out a transformer!!

Just a thought, Ken.

Ken:

Good point. How about this more accurate diagram:


(click to enlarge)

[cmarchan]

Joe,

As a electronics professional for over 20 years and a front line supporter for DCC, I applaud your hard work and dedication to the technology. Forum clinics like these are wonderful resources for fellow hobbyists seaching for answers, or for those intimidated by electronics (a common thing since the hobby's inception). I began my career in electronics as a teenager interested in signaling systems for my HO scale layout. I have come full circle with DCC (so to speak) and I am not looking back.

Once again, thanks and great work!

Carl

[devils]

Doing well so far with different volumes, whistles and sounds etc, I'm currently playing with the sound synch to get a good speed / sound match and matching the sound to the current draw for the load effect. Saving the settings into the file so you can go back just one step is the real secret as it saves a factory settings reset.
All we need now are steam locos with room for speakers in the smokebox, ( and access into it ), to get the sound in the right place!
Passed on those links and some more off JMRI to some of the other guys trying to fit sound. Once you're in it's fun.