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Atlas turnout frog & dead zones

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  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 7, 2018 8:06 AM

zstripe

As far as the #8......there is no way around it.......He must power the frog and He is working on that now.

I don't have any #8 turnouts on my layout, so I am curious about this. Is it inevitable that locos will stall on on the frog on a #8 turnout unless the frog is powered?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 7, 2018 8:04 AM

zstripe
 

I spoke with Him last night and I covered all that You just mentioned and then some. I believe He understands better when He can speak to someone. He has some SD40-2's that are stalling at the frog....(the #4's/#6's)but I believe, that is caused by using loose fitting rail joiners at the point end.....they also have a slight gap in them. He says they are picking up power from all wheels, so that is what I base My feeling about the power issue. I convinced Him to add feeders to the point end of the turnouts and at least the two inside rails after the frog. He does not have very many feeders throughout His layout and that is contributing to most of His problem's and He's understanding that better now. As far as the #8......there is no way around it.......He must power the frog and He is working on that now.

So, is he wiring feeders to the rail joiners rather than to the turnout itself?

Rich

Alton Junction

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  • From: Chi-Town
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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 7, 2018 7:40 AM

rrinker

 I suspect you have some pickup problems, or a lot oof locos that only pick up from 2 wheels on each side, if they stall on a #4. Even my little GE 44 tonner negotiates unpowered Atlas #4's with no problem.

 #8's are a different story, that's a big frog. Powering them (or any of the other sizes) was covered in the thread about your short. You need either a Tortoise switch motor or Atlas SNap Relays, depending on which you use, to get the contacts to connect the correct bus to the frog depending on the way the points are thrown. There are also the Tam Valley Frog Juicers which do it electronically, but cost more.

 Hooking the wire to the frog is the hard part, the frogs do not take solder very well (the 8's I think have a solderable tab brought out to the side though - the 4's and 6's have a small hole). The best bet is to use a brass screw and then solder a wire to the brass screw.

                                                  --Randy

 

I spoke with Him last night and I covered all that You just mentioned and then some. I believe He understands better when He can speak to someone. He has some SD40-2's that are stalling at the frog....(the #4's/#6's)but I believe, that is caused by using loose fitting rail joiners at the point end.....they also have a slight gap in them. He says they are picking up power from all wheels, so that is what I base My feeling about the power issue. I convinced Him to add feeders to the point end of the turnouts and at least the two inside rails after the frog. He does not have very many feeders throughout His layout and that is contributing to most of His problem's and He's understanding that better now. As far as the #8......there is no way around it.......He must power the frog and He is working on that now.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 7, 2018 6:21 AM

 I suspect you have some pickup problems, or a lot oof locos that only pick up from 2 wheels on each side, if they stall on a #4. Even my little GE 44 tonner negotiates unpowered Atlas #4's with no problem.

 #8's are a different story, that's a big frog. Powering them (or any of the other sizes) was covered in the thread about your short. You need either a Tortoise switch motor or Atlas SNap Relays, depending on which you use, to get the contacts to connect the correct bus to the frog depending on the way the points are thrown. There are also the Tam Valley Frog Juicers which do it electronically, but cost more.

 Hooking the wire to the frog is the hard part, the frogs do not take solder very well (the 8's I think have a solderable tab brought out to the side though - the 4's and 6's have a small hole). The best bet is to use a brass screw and then solder a wire to the brass screw.

                                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 7, 2018 4:05 AM

Although the frog on an Atlas turnout is metal, it is unpowered out of the box. This is accomplished at the factory by isolating the frog from the connecting rail segments throught the use of plastic gaps. All of the other rail segments on an Atlas turnout can be powered by wiring feeders to all three ends of the turnout.

The Atlas turnout is a non-power routing turnout which means that all of the rail segments will be powered at all times if the three ends of the turnout are wired. If you use an ohmmeter to test for continuity , you will see that there are no "dead zones" on an Atlas turnout other than the isolated frog which requires a separate power source.

Even with an unpowered frog, most locomotives should not stall on the frog because most locomotives have more than one power pickup location. Two notable exceptions are (1) very short wheelbase locomotives and (2) certain locomotives on a #8 turnout due to the sheer length of the frog.

Are you saying that all your locomotives stall on your Atlas turnouts and that they stall on all of your Atlas turnouts? Can you provide us with a list of the types of locomotives on your roster?

I have a lot of Atlas Custom Line turnouts, both #4 and #6, on my layout, and none of my locomotives stall on any turnout. I have both 4-axle and 6-axle diesels as well as a number of steam locomotives.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Atlas turnout frog & dead zones
Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:13 PM

Besides buying buss bars and a snap switch for each turnout, any other solutions to address the "dead zone" on Atlas turnouts?  The dead zone I'm referring to is the unpowered frog.  For those who helped me earlier, I resolved the short.  Thank you!  Bravo!  Howeover, whenver my locomotives go into  #4, #6, and #8 turnouts, they stop once they touch the frog.

There was an earlier discussion on this topic here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/225048.aspx.  In that thread, some mention adding a screw to the frog, but is that really a substitute to not buying a relay switch?  Do I really need to invest in a snap switch for each turnout?  That will get quite expensive!

I understand the value of having three sets of feeders for each turnout and not depending on the joiners in providing power. I have three sets of feeders and still get the dead zone. 

Much appreciated!

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