There is some sort of specialized interface in the mix of that system to allow it to understand NCE Cab Bus. While yooou CAN do it, the intent of LCC is not to replace your DCC system but supplant it and add features not avialable to most DCC systems.
The concept of a translator could theoreticaly be realized with JMRI, or with multiple interfaces to an LCC system, where you could use NCE and Digitrax throttles on a Lenz DCC system, for example. LCC will also be useful alongside a dead rail control system, since they are generally direct radio, there is no existing bus for signaling and detection. Plus the ability to control structure lighting and animations not directly related to train operation
My only beef is that right not it's not too DIY friendly, although I'm sure that will change, DIY DCC bits took a while to arrive on the scene after the standard was approved, and now there in everything from decoders to complete systems avilable as DIY projects.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Im not sure exactly what I am seeing (unfortuneately I went (well INRD and Gerry Albers layout were way better than going to a bunch of clinics) on a tour during the clinic), but you can see the presentation online at the NMRA 2016 convention website.
ATLANTIC CENTRALCan I assume that the only way to have a wireless throttle with that is to use a smart phone? That leaves me out thank you.
Dave Bodnar modified it so you can use a TV remote with an IR sensor. I think I'd turn off the talking part.
Dave and some other people over at the Trainboard forum are working on designing wireless throttles with knobs. Here are a few pics of what they've come up with.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/DCC_Arduino/Nextion_LCD/images/TopPic.jpg
http://trainelectronics.com/DCC_Arduino/DCC++/Throttle/images/plexUnit1.jpg
The plastic case below is made by Hammond Mfg.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3565228/IMG_20160117_243342069.jpg
Andrew,
LCC does not control trains(or consisting). It controls layout functions like lighting or signaling for example. The idea is to take non-train traffic off of the DCC bus.
LCC uses a standard automotive industry CAN bus, and is on a separate set of wires (bus).
My take on the next DCC thing is DIY stuff like DCC++. Us old guys like a hand held throttle with a 'knob'. The new generation is comfortable with a smart phone throttle. A DCC++ command station can be assembled in under a hour with about $30 worth of parts.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
LCC is NOT designed to replace DCC, it's for all the other stuff - structure lighting, animation, signal control, detection. DCC will still be used to run the trains, or DC, or anything else. All those people with other DCC systems that don't have the control bus capacity of Digitrax Loconet use either a standalone Loconet, or CMRI, or now, LCC, to gain that capability. Also the CMRI protocols have been adopted into the NMRA standards as well. It's just that the actual components are so expensive compared to other options - I'm rolling my own with Arduinos but using the CMRI protocol with an RS485 network for my signals and detection.
The biggest problem I have with CMRI, besides the cost of the boards for the 'real thing' is that there has been almost no progress on the software side - the newest code examples are maybe VB6 - pre .Net stuff. Any more, if you aren't using a REALLY old computer using a DOS BASIC, it's all JMRI. And I frankly do not like the Java programming language, nor the silliness that is Jython scripting as used in JMRI.
My club uses Digitrax with a JMRI interface. I love being able to my smartphone as a throttle. At home, I have an NCE PowerCab, also with the hardware to run JMRI down the road if I get a layout going. Try out as many systems as you can and see what you like best.
Alvie
My suggestion is to wait a few months and see what comes from Layout Command Control (yahoo groups: layout command control). LCC is an NMRA standard.
This year at the NMRA national convention, the LCC developers ran a battery power locomotive in consist with a DCC locomotive. These products are currently in development.
I encourage all to at least give LCC a drive by look and see what it has to offer. Join the group and ask questions if you think you might be interested.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL fieryturbo Why not use DCC++? http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/dccpp/index.shtml An Arduino Uno and motor shield are like a little more than $10 total shipped from China. A comparable Digitrax system is literally THIRTY TIMES the cost of this :/ Save your money and spend it on track or something really necessary. I also found this article: a DCC decoder for $5: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/19070 Also using the same arduino tools. That's entirely too much work of most people.......... Can I assume that the only way to have a wireless throttle with that is to use a smart phone? That leaves me out thank you. Most people in this hobby today use DCC because they did not want to do much wiring or learn anything about electronics......... Sheldon
fieryturbo Why not use DCC++? http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/dccpp/index.shtml An Arduino Uno and motor shield are like a little more than $10 total shipped from China. A comparable Digitrax system is literally THIRTY TIMES the cost of this :/ Save your money and spend it on track or something really necessary. I also found this article: a DCC decoder for $5: http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/19070 Also using the same arduino tools.
Why not use DCC++?
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/help/en/html/hardware/dccpp/index.shtml
An Arduino Uno and motor shield are like a little more than $10 total shipped from China.
A comparable Digitrax system is literally THIRTY TIMES the cost of this :/
Save your money and spend it on track or something really necessary.
I also found this article: a DCC decoder for $5:
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/19070
Also using the same arduino tools.
That's entirely too much work of most people..........
Can I assume that the only way to have a wireless throttle with that is to use a smart phone? That leaves me out thank you.
Most people in this hobby today use DCC because they did not want to do much wiring or learn anything about electronics.........
Sheldon
We're not talking about most people (whatever that implies). We're talking about the OP who said he was very technologically inclined. I highly doubt he will have any difficulty with the solution I suggested.
DCC++ requires less effort than setting up JMRI does, and that's by a long shot. You plug two boards together, download some software, install it, and upload it to the board. Then you have to configure it in JMRI.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
I have CVP's EasyDCC. It was recommended by a friend who has tried all systems out there. I am very pleased and their service is top notch.
Ken Vandevoort
Thank you for all the responses! I'm more confused then ever! LOL! Just kidding. Very, very good information!
Rinker nailed it for me. I've built my own servers for personal use and love the hardware side of computing. I will go with a JMRI for sure and I like what I've read about Loconet.
My local club uses Digitrax. I hope to join next month but would like at least some experience with DCC before walking in there.
I did order a MRC sound controller 2.0 to use with my first DCC sound loco. I want to run DC with sound control. That constant bell ringing at yard speed drove me nuts. I'm pretty sure my figures don't move so safety is not a big concern for them.
I built a control box years ago that can handle three cabs with the use of rotary switches and DPDT switches. Layout is block wired so all I have to do is plug in whatever system I want
Pat Bandy
I have a Digitrax Super Chief and JMRI. I am completely satisfied with it and have no difficulty finding everything I need in the manuals. I find them clear and complete.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
The only DCC system I have ever run is the one I bought, and after I bought it. Its an NCE system. I have no complaints.
- Douglas
Well, I'm somewhat anti Digitrax, not because of manuals, or complexity, but simply what I consider the poor ergonomics of most all of their throttles......
Most of the DCC layouts I have operated are Digitrax, I can't push those little buttons, or see that display......
selector Well, not to start a flame war, or to kvetch,
Well, not to start a flame war, or to kvetch,
but judging by the annoyed posters who swear that Digitrax almost ended their foray into DCC because the manuals were so complicated, I'd say just stop right there and go right in that door...Digitrax. Also, you probably know about loconet...it's wonderfully complex. Gruesome, dark, and mysterious. Abandon all hope, though, if ye enter.
And of course the flame war continues. To be fair, it totally depends on the user - some love Digitrax and loconet and others hate (see above). Is there anything wrong with Digitrax? It depends on who you ask and the war continues. Those who like it are happy and in the end, each side honestly wants it's own converts so it's really more a pride thing - thats my unscientific assessment of the Digitrax vs. NCE kvetch war. Is kvetch polish? eastern european? I'm of English/Swedish/German decent.
Anyway, I have had a Digitrax Chief system I bought many moons ago but due to bumps in the roard didn't have a layout for many long years to use it. I bought it based on price/feature comparison and at that time, it was a better deal than the Wangrow/NCE more costly systems at that time.
I have used Digitrax at a modular group in the last year or so and have to be shown every time how to do stuff so that tells me something else might be better for me. Right now it's down to cost so eventually I may try out NCE and see if it really is more intuitive for me and make take the plunge.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
JEREMY CENTANNIDigitrax is nice and does everything it says it can, although their instruction manuals are garbage.
I've heard this kind of comment many times and just can't agree. I've used Digitrax and NCE and never had a problem with Digitrax manuals whereas I've had lots of problems with NCE manuals. I'm getting better with NCE now but there have been times when I had to search and search to find out how to do something. At times the NCE manual just doesn't seem logical.
I love both of these systems. I'm presently using an NCE Power Cab because I just have a very small switching layout and it's perfect for that. But if I had a larger layout I wouldn't hesitate to go back to Digitrax as I really like everything about it. These are two great systems by two great companies and you just have to choose the one with features that best suit your needs.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
crusader27529 JoeinPA I have two Digitrax systems - both Zephyrs. One is dedicated to programming and the other to running trains. I am not a computer geek and have not had any trouble in understanding the manuals and putting them to work. I don't know why others have had difficulty understanding the manuals. Joe Seems like alot of expense just to do decoder programming, but I guess that having 2 complete DCC systems gives you a spare/backup DCC system as a result.
JoeinPA I have two Digitrax systems - both Zephyrs. One is dedicated to programming and the other to running trains. I am not a computer geek and have not had any trouble in understanding the manuals and putting them to work. I don't know why others have had difficulty understanding the manuals. Joe
I have two Digitrax systems - both Zephyrs. One is dedicated to programming and the other to running trains. I am not a computer geek and have not had any trouble in understanding the manuals and putting them to work. I don't know why others have had difficulty understanding the manuals.
Joe
Seems like alot of expense just to do decoder programming, but I guess that having 2 complete DCC systems gives you a spare/backup DCC system as a result.
My first Zephyr was the original model and served me well. I got the second (a Zephyr Extra) later for a little more power and some features. My programming setup - Zephyr, Locobuffer USB,PTB100 and laptop - is in my shop while the layout is in another room. It's just for a little convenience in my old age. I think that I'm having more fun than the law allows.
I come from a technical background, EE degree and my regular job involves computer networks and server builds. When I researched DCC systems, it was the Loconet on Digitrax that sold me. None of the other brands has anything nearly as capable as this bus system. In fact people with other brands often install Loconet to handle their detection and signalling when they get that far. There is more third party support for Loconet than the others combined - both pre-built components that are compatible with loconet as well as DIY bits, including libraries for various microcontrollers so you can build your own devices.
That said, I've never had any issue figuring out how any of it works, nor have I had any issues with other non-technical people figuring out how to use the Digitrax equipment. The manual complainer is ONE person here and seems very prone to hyperbole, since Digitrax manuals, at least for the past 10 years, are almost exactly like any others in that in the first few pages they tell you to hook up wires to the proper terminals and then press certain buttons on the throttle and your loco should run - step by step getting started directions that get you up and running in a very simple fashion. The more advanced features come up later, including a button by button description of the throttle and what you would use each button for, often with examples. It's all freely downloadable, so you can compare the manuals from different systems.
I did an awful lot of research and questioning before I left DC for DCC. For me, it was a $2k investment (system & decoders) and I was super cautious. It didn't take long to realize Digitrax and NCE were the front runners. For strictly minor reasons I chose Digitrax over NCE for the system, but ended up with almost all NCE decoders.
I won't badmouth the other systems out there, but will say that Digitrax and NCE are the "biggies" and you can't go wrong either way.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
ATLANTIC CENTRAL If I was going to buy a DCC system..........Easy DCC by CVP Products, one of the first, still one of the best. http://www.cvpusa.com Sheldon
If I was going to buy a DCC system..........Easy DCC by CVP Products, one of the first, still one of the best.
http://www.cvpusa.com
ditto - I've used CVP since 2000.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Code and a LOT of computer related things are not so much hard as they are detailed. CV values and dcc stuff is detailed and missing a step can be very frusterating.
Ignatosky I want to jump into DCC. I am a computer nerd and would like full access to all DCC features. I have read that some systems are more complex then others. The more complex, the better for me. Been looking at Digitrax. Any suggestions?
I want to jump into DCC. I am a computer nerd and would like full access to all DCC features. I have read that some systems are more complex then others. The more complex, the better for me. Been looking at Digitrax.
Any suggestions?
Digitrax is what you want. It will do all you want,and since you are a computer nerd it will be easy to understand. I am also a computer geek and I found that the manual was not that hard to digest. Of course I found a book on low lever operating system calls and found that I not only enjoyed reading it,I understood it and was able to use it when I wrote code.
Robert nailed it. I didn't think it was an unknown expression but this morning SWMBO told me she never heard the expression "You can never be too thin or too rich"
There are others here who can have a high level discussion of Arduino with the OP. I just put it on the table for consideration.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Steven S BigDaddy If you haven't run across the term "Arduino" you should do some research. It is way above my pay grade and interests but it might suit yours. You can get an Arduino Uno clone for 5 or 6 bucks...
BigDaddy If you haven't run across the term "Arduino" you should do some research. It is way above my pay grade and interests but it might suit yours.
You can get an Arduino Uno clone for 5 or 6 bucks...
To say something is "above may pay grade" does not mean that it is expensive. "Above my pay grade" is an idiom that means too complex or important for my skill set (because gnerally speaking the people with a more complex or important job get a higher pay).