Well, while that doesn't explain your other issues, Rich, it is an important question answered. That said, it might be worth measuring anyhow - just for confirmation. Not like things have been incorrectly labeled before...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I went down to measure the ohms. Before doing so, however, I noticed markings stamped on the back of the speaker. It reads 4 ohms, 2 watts
Rich
Alton Junction
I spent some time down on the layout this morning, so let me update my findings.
Regarding the volume itself, I played with the speaker and the baffle. The speaker fits snuggly in the speaker mount, but it is not tightly sealed against the baffle. When Intermountain sent the 3-part kit (decoder, speaker, and baffle), the baffle was referred to on the invoice as a "QSI style" baffle. It is identical to the baffle found in my other Intermountain F3A loco with factory installed sound. Either the speaker is slightly too big to fit inside the baffle or the way the wires are soldered to the speaker prevents a tight, sealed fit. That said, I can hold the assembly together in my fingers for a tighter fit and produce higher volume.
The bigger issue, though, is the sudden loss of sound in certain instances. When the sound is lost, all of the lights (headlight, Mars light, number boards) remain on and the loco continues to run. But all of the sound (whistle, horn, prime mover) cut off, and the only way to restore sound is to lift the wheels off of one rail and then back down on the rail. That loss of sound can happen anywhere on the layout, and it only happens when I press the F2 button. When I apply a different button for short beeps, there is no loss of power.
One curious thing is that if the loco is sitting still and not moving, the sounds remain on no matter what. So, even if I press the F2 button and leave the horn blaring, the sound never cuts out, only when the loco is in motion.
Mark mentioned the possibility of a corrupt sound file. If this were the case on this decoder, would the situation that I am experiencing be the consequence?
Clearly, the pressing of the F2 button is causing a complete loss of sound when the loco is in motion.
What the heck is going on here?
Do you have a multimeter handy?
How to measure speaker impedence
Tom, thanks for that info. I actually cannot say for sure how many ohms are associated with the speaker that was sent to me from Intermountain. I was just going on the assumption that it was 100 ohms, as stated on the Intermountain web site. Is there a simple way to determine the ohms on a speaker?
Rich,
I found the following blurb on speakers on the ESU site:
"LokSound V4.0, LokSound micro V4.0 and LokSound V4.0 M4 decoders need the new speaker with an impendance of 4 Ohms. With the present 100 Ohms loudspeakers you would hardly hear anything." [Underscored by me]
While the Select decoder is not directly mentioned, per say, I'm guessing it's the same as the V4.0 decoders.
Maybe the problem?
I knew that was true for the older Loksound sound decoders (V3.5/2.0) but thought I read that the newer ones could use the 8ohm speakers, like TCS & Soundtraxx.
[Edit: Rich, 4ohm is actually listed for the Loksound Select decoder;same for the Loksound Silect Direct. If you're using a 100ohm speaker then that may be part of the problem.]
tstage Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?
Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?
The LokSound decoder is designed to use 100 ohm speakers instead of the 8 ohm speakers. No capacitor is used between the decoder and the speaker which saves some space. Using a higher impedance speaker, less current is needed to drive the speaker. Less capacitance is needed meaning a smaller decoder.
tstage Rich, Is the tan "dome" on the right the speaker enclosure? If so, does the speaker point up or down inside it? (In other words, as shown or flipped upside down?) The speaker enclosures that I bought for my Loksound decoders in the past were always cylindrical, ~3/4" deep, and the rear of the speaker snapped into it for an airtight fit. Tom
Is the tan "dome" on the right the speaker enclosure?
If so, does the speaker point up or down inside it? (In other words, as shown or flipped upside down?)
The speaker enclosures that I bought for my Loksound decoders in the past were always cylindrical, ~3/4" deep, and the rear of the speaker snapped into it for an airtight fit.
Tom, you mentioned that the speaker in your installation snapped into the enclosure. That does not happen here. I may try to call the technician again tomorrow to discuss this.
hon30critter Rich: Further to Mark R's comments about the speaker not having enough space for the cone to move properly, I noticed that you showed a picture in your other thread of the speaker mounting ring removed from the locomotive. Did you install the speaker and enclosure without the speaker mount? If so, your speaker cone might be doing exactly what Mark suggested. I'm totally speculating here, but is there a possibility that, if the speaker cone is trapped, the decoder is somehow reacting to the inability of the speaker cone to move through its full range by shutting down the sound? Dave
Rich:
Further to Mark R's comments about the speaker not having enough space for the cone to move properly, I noticed that you showed a picture in your other thread of the speaker mounting ring removed from the locomotive. Did you install the speaker and enclosure without the speaker mount? If so, your speaker cone might be doing exactly what Mark suggested. I'm totally speculating here, but is there a possibility that, if the speaker cone is trapped, the decoder is somehow reacting to the inability of the speaker cone to move through its full range by shutting down the sound?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Think it is a bad decoder or a bad speaker?
richhotrain When I spoke to the technician at Intermountain today, I mentioned the problem with the horn. He seemed unfamiliar with the problem. That would be interesting if this decoder is part of a bad batch. Rich
When I spoke to the technician at Intermountain today, I mentioned the problem with the horn. He seemed unfamiliar with the problem. That would be interesting if this decoder is part of a bad batch.
That problem was only with the Select Micro decoders. The wrong (earlier version) software was loaded onto the decoder that later version sound files wouldn't work properly with.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
maxman Mark R. maxman This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it? It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ? Mark. Because we were trying to load some sounds to two Select Micro decoders last week and were unsuccessful. The symptoms were similar in that the lights worked okay and the loco moved. The only sound we could get out of the decoder was a single chirp when the horn sounded. We called Loksound and were told that there had been a batch of Select Micros that had gotten out that were defective. We are waiting for the replacements. That's what it has to do with it and was the reason why I asked.
Mark R. maxman This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it? It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ? Mark.
maxman This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?
This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?
It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ?
Because we were trying to load some sounds to two Select Micro decoders last week and were unsuccessful. The symptoms were similar in that the lights worked okay and the loco moved. The only sound we could get out of the decoder was a single chirp when the horn sounded.
We called Loksound and were told that there had been a batch of Select Micros that had gotten out that were defective. We are waiting for the replacements.
That's what it has to do with it and was the reason why I asked.
Fair enough - I only knew it wasn't by the other post showing his installation. By the way, I had six of those bad batch Micros myself last month ! The good folks at ESU promptly replaced them.
I started a thread earlier today with some photos of the installation.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/253035/2825887.aspx#2825887
The speaker sits in a specially designed baffle which is secured in place.
Pretty sure the bell sound comes out the speaker, too.
The tech mentioning getting a good seal is important.
But the earlier comment by Mark about the speaker needing clearance in front may also apply.
Usually, if the speaker sits on the floor or the bottom of the fuel tank to fire through holes in the floor, then you'll need a ring to raise the speaker so it's off the floor and can be seated so it seals. In other words, you often need some sort of spacer underneath the speaker and it's enclosure so when the front of the speaker is at higher volumes it won't touch the floor. This often results in symptoms like yours.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I am puzzled by the fact that the bell sounds great but the horn is barely audible.
Does the bell sound project through the speaker, or does it somehow project right off the decoder?
I get the sense that the sounding of the horn is causing a momentary short. When I sound the horn, it cuts out all sound after a moment, but the loco keeps moving and the lights stay lit.
tstage As far as volume, it's also possible that the speaker is bad, or the housing is not creating a tight seal around the speaker. I believe I had a bad speaker one time with a Loksound decoder. Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich? Tom
As far as volume, it's also possible that the speaker is bad, or the housing is not creating a tight seal around the speaker.
I believe I had a bad speaker one time with a Loksound decoder. Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?
Mark R. My thought was (if you had a programmer) was to try loading a different file. Could be a corrupt file. Another thought .... that speaker you used has a fair bit of flex to the cone. Its movement isn't impaired in any way, is it ? The cone WILL move further forward than the rim of the speaker. Mark.
My thought was (if you had a programmer) was to try loading a different file. Could be a corrupt file.
Another thought .... that speaker you used has a fair bit of flex to the cone. Its movement isn't impaired in any way, is it ? The cone WILL move further forward than the rim of the speaker.
As far as volume, it's also possible that the speaker is bad, or the baffle enclosure is not creating a tight seal around the speaker.
Mark R. Rich - I don't remember .... do you have a Lokprogrammer ? Mark.
Rich - I don't remember .... do you have a Lokprogrammer ?