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Problems with a Loksound Select Decoder

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Problems with a Loksound Select Decoder
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 8:48 PM

I installed a Loksound Select decoder today in an Intermountain F3A locomotive. I bought the decoder from Intermountain to replace a non-sound decoder that I previously installed.  The loco runs smoothly and all of the light functions work, but I am having no end of problems with the sound.  I am not even sure where to start.

One issue is the volume.  Try as I may, I cannot raise the volume of the prime mover, the bell, or the horn.  It is not very loud.

Another issue is that when I press the horn function, the horn sounds for a few seconds, then there is a complete loss of sound although the loco continues to move.

I will stop there for the moment.  Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Rich

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 9:19 PM

Rich:

I'm assuming you have done a reset, yes? If so, and the problems persist, you might have a bad decoder.

Dave

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 9:27 PM

hon30critter

Rich:

I'm assuming you have done a reset, yes? If so, and the problems persist, you might have a bad decoder.

Dave

 

Dave, I think that you are correct.  I have done numerous resets (CV8=8), but the problem persists. I set the master volume (CV63) to zero and that did mute the sound. I then raised the value to 192 (maximum) and that increased the bell volume, but the horn is barely audible.  As soon as I activate the horn, it sounds for a moment but then kills all sound entirely.

Rich

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 9:53 PM

Rich - I don't remember .... do you have a Lokprogrammer ?

Mark.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 9:59 PM

Mark R.

Rich - I don't remember .... do you have a Lokprogrammer ?

Mark.

 

Mark, I do not.  That crossed my mind, but how would the LokProgrammer help in this instance?  I feel so intimidated by LokSound decoders.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:03 PM

This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:04 PM

My thought was (if you had a programmer) was to try loading a different file. Could be a corrupt file.

Another thought .... that speaker you used has a fair bit of flex to the cone. Its movement isn't impaired in any way, is it ? The cone WILL move further forward than the rim of the speaker.

Mark.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:06 PM

maxman

This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?

 

It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ?

Mark.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:10 PM

maxman

This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?

 

No paperwork came with the decoder, so I called the technician at Intermountain. He referred to the decoder as a LokSound Select, #93423, an OEM sound file designed specifically for Intermountain locos.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:11 PM

As far as volume, it's also possible that the speaker is bad, or the baffle enclosure is not creating a tight seal around the speaker.

I believe I had a bad speaker one time with a Loksound decoder.  Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:12 PM

Mark R.

My thought was (if you had a programmer) was to try loading a different file. Could be a corrupt file.

Another thought .... that speaker you used has a fair bit of flex to the cone. Its movement isn't impaired in any way, is it ? The cone WILL move further forward than the rim of the speaker.

Mark.

 

Before I installed the decoder, I called the technician for a few pointers. He indicated that I needed to be sure that there was a tight seal between the speaker and the baffle.  Tomorrow, I will recheck the installation to be sure that the speaker is firmly seated.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:14 PM

tstage

As far as volume, it's also possible that the speaker is bad, or the housing is not creating a tight seal around the speaker.

I believe I had a bad speaker one time with a Loksound decoder.  Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?

Tom

 

Tom, I do not have any spare speakers.  In fact, this was my first sound installation. All of my other sound decoders have been factory installed.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:16 PM

I get the sense that the sounding of the horn is causing a momentary short. When I sound the horn, it cuts out all sound after a moment, but the loco keeps moving and the lights stay lit.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:21 PM

I am puzzled by the fact that the bell sounds great but the horn is barely audible.

Does the bell sound project through the speaker, or does it somehow project right off the decoder?

Rich

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:37 PM

Rich,

Pretty sure the bell sound comes out the speaker, too.

The tech mentioning getting a good seal is important.

But the earlier comment by Mark about the speaker needing clearance in front may also apply.

Usually, if the speaker sits on the floor or the bottom of the fuel tank to fire through holes in the floor, then you'll need a ring to raise the speaker so it's off the floor and can be seated so it seals. In other words, you often need some sort of spacer underneath the speaker and it's enclosure so when the front of the speaker is at higher volumes it won't touch the floor. This often results in symptoms like yours.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:44 PM

I started a thread earlier today with some photos of the installation. 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/253035/2825887.aspx#2825887

The speaker sits in a specially designed baffle which is secured in place.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:45 PM

Mark R.

 

 
maxman

This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?

 

 

 

It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ?

Mark.

 

Because we were trying to load some sounds to two Select Micro decoders last week and were unsuccessful.  The symptoms were similar in that the lights worked okay and the loco moved.  The only sound we could get out of the decoder was a single chirp when the horn sounded.

We called Loksound and were told that there had been a batch of Select Micros that had gotten out that were defective.  We are waiting for the replacements.

That's what it has to do with it and was the reason why I asked.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:50 PM

When I spoke to the technician at Intermountain today, I mentioned the problem with the horn.  He seemed unfamiliar with the problem. That would be interesting if this decoder is part of a bad batch.

Rich

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:52 PM

maxman

 

 
Mark R.

 

 
maxman

This doesn't happen to be a Select Micro, does it?

 

 

 

It's not .... but what would that have to do with it ?

Mark.

 

 

 

Because we were trying to load some sounds to two Select Micro decoders last week and were unsuccessful.  The symptoms were similar in that the lights worked okay and the loco moved.  The only sound we could get out of the decoder was a single chirp when the horn sounded.

We called Loksound and were told that there had been a batch of Select Micros that had gotten out that were defective.  We are waiting for the replacements.

That's what it has to do with it and was the reason why I asked.

 

Fair enough - I only knew it wasn't by the other post showing his installation. By the way, I had six of those bad batch Micros myself last month ! The good folks at ESU promptly replaced them.

Mark. 

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:54 PM

richhotrain

When I spoke to the technician at Intermountain today, I mentioned the problem with the horn.  He seemed unfamiliar with the problem. That would be interesting if this decoder is part of a bad batch.

Rich

 

That problem was only with the Select Micro decoders. The wrong (earlier version) software was loaded onto the decoder that later version sound files wouldn't work properly with.

Mark.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:03 PM

Think it is a bad decoder or a bad speaker?

Rich

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:03 PM

Rich:

Further to Mark R's comments about the speaker not having enough space for the cone to move properly, I noticed that you showed a picture in your other thread of the speaker mounting ring removed from the locomotive. Did you install the speaker and enclosure without the speaker mount? If so, your speaker cone might be doing exactly what Mark suggested. I'm totally speculating here, but is there a possibility that, if the speaker cone is trapped, the decoder is somehow reacting to the inability of the speaker cone to move through its full range by shutting down the sound?

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:29 PM

Rich,

Is the tan "dome" on the right the speaker enclosure?

If so, does the speaker point up or down inside it?  (In other words, as shown or flipped upside down?)

The speaker enclosures that I bought for my Loksound decoders in the past were always cylindrical, ~3/4" deep, and the rear of the speaker snapped into it for an airtight fit.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:54 PM

hon30critter

Rich:

Further to Mark R's comments about the speaker not having enough space for the cone to move properly, I noticed that you showed a picture in your other thread of the speaker mounting ring removed from the locomotive. Did you install the speaker and enclosure without the speaker mount? If so, your speaker cone might be doing exactly what Mark suggested. I'm totally speculating here, but is there a possibility that, if the speaker cone is trapped, the decoder is somehow reacting to the inability of the speaker cone to move through its full range by shutting down the sound?

Dave

 

Dave, that "mounting ring' has to be removed and then the speaker fits into the enclosure beneath it and the baffle goes on top and is screwed into the chassis. I checked another Intermountain with a factory installed sound system, and that is how it is done as well.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 11:56 PM

tstage

Rich,

Is the tan "dome" on the right the speaker enclosure?

If so, does the speaker point up or down inside it?  (In other words, as shown or flipped upside down?)

The speaker enclosures that I bought for my Loksound decoders in the past were always cylindrical, ~3/4" deep, and the rear of the speaker snapped into it for an airtight fit.

Tom

 

That "dome" is the baffle. The speaker is placed in the mount face down and then the baffle is screwed down on top of it.  The speaker is face up in that photo.

Tom, you mentioned that the speaker in your installation snapped into the enclosure.  That does not happen here.  I may try to call the technician again tomorrow to discuss this.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:02 AM

tstage

Do you have another 8ohm speaker you can test with that, Rich?

The LokSound speaker is actually a 100 ohm speaker. Here is an excerpt from Tony's Trains review.

The LokSound decoder is designed to use 100 ohm speakers instead of the 8 ohm speakers. No capacitor is used between the decoder and the speaker which saves some space. Using a higher impedance speaker, less current is needed to drive the speaker. Less capacitance is needed meaning a smaller decoder.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, December 24, 2015 9:07 AM

Rich,

I knew that was true for the older Loksound sound decoders (V3.5/2.0) but thought I read that the newer ones could use the 8ohm speakers, like TCS & Soundtraxx.

Tom

[Edit: Rich, 4ohm is actually listed for the Loksound Select decoder;same for the Loksound Silect Direct.  If you're using a 100ohm speaker then that may be part of the problem.]

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, December 24, 2015 9:23 AM

Rich,

I found the following blurb on speakers on the ESU site:

"LokSound V4.0, LokSound micro V4.0 and LokSound V4.0 M4 decoders need the new speaker with an impendance of 4 Ohms. With the present 100 Ohms loudspeakers you would hardly hear anything." [Underscored by me]

While the Select decoder is not directly mentioned, per say, I'm guessing it's the same as the V4.0 decoders.

Maybe the problem?

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 24, 2015 9:35 AM

Tom, thanks for that info.  I actually cannot say for sure how many ohms are associated with the speaker that was sent to me from Intermountain. I was just going on the assumption that it was 100 ohms, as stated on the Intermountain web site. Is there a simple way to determine the ohms on a speaker?

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, December 24, 2015 9:45 AM

Do you have a multimeter handy?

How to measure speaker impedence

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