I would say the speaker is damaged. Possibly the decoder.
As to smaller speakers, impedence is very close to the resistence. With larger speakers, that's a different matter.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffin I would say the speaker is damaged. Possibly the decoder. As to smaller speakers, impedence is very close to the resistence. With larger speakers, that's a different matter.
Rich
Alton Junction
Big Update
I went over to Radio Shack today and picked up 29mm diameter, 8 ohm speaker, and hooked it to the LokSound Select decoder. It worked, no sound cutout, no problem. And the sound volume was acceptably higher. I will call Intermountain tomorrow to discuss a replacement speaker. I will follow up once I get this all resolved.
Rich,
Since ESU says they recommend the 4 ohm speakers for their Select decoders (see earlier link from pg. 1), it may be worth contacting them, as well, to find out if an 8 ohm speaker is an acceptable substitute.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
ESU decoders are designed to work optimally with 4 ohm speakers. However, using 8 or 16 ohm speakers is not a problem.
I've never tried a 16 ohm speaker, but I've noticed very little difference in volume between a 4 or 8 ohm speaker.
There is never a problem using a higher rated speaker - never use a lower one. A higher rated speaker will just create a bit less volume.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
The Radio Shack speaker is 29mm, but it is slightly too big to fit in the chassis mount which is intended to hold a 28mm speaker. So, I will need to contact Intermountain to get the correct size replacement speaker.
I did check the LokSound manual, and it indicated that an 8 ohm speaker would be acceptable although the volume might be slightly lower. I wanted to check before putting in that Radio Shack speaker.
The only reason that I got that Radio Shack speaker is that it was immediately available, and I really wanted to test the speaker before sending both the speaker and decoder back to Intermountain. I am glad that I did since I now know that the decoder is good.
Wow!
5 days and 65 replies to figure out that the speaker is bad!
Please understand that I'm not being critical at all. In fact, the back and forth was very interesting. However, several people, myself included, jumped to the conclusion that the decoder was messed up. This is one situation where a decoder tester would have come in handy. I built one which has a motor and a speaker but I never use it. Perhaps I should start.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Wow! 5 days and 65 replies to figure out that the speaker is bad! Please understand that I'm not being critical at all. In fact, the back and forth was very interesting. However, several people, myself included, jumped to the conclusion that the decoder was messed up. This is one situation where a decoder tester would have come in handy. I built one which has a motor and a speaker but I never use it. Perhaps I should start. Dave
gmpullmanMany of the OEM speakers and even the ESU ones that come with the decoders I set aside and use only as a last resort.
I've done about forty sound decoder installs.
Number of bad decoders: 0 — Number of bad speakers: 3!
Add to that the three sound locomotives I purchased from Ebay sellers for bargain prices due to poor (or no) sound and when I got them the first thing I did was try a known good speaker — you guessed it.
Well, I'm glad you finally pin pointed the cause, Rich. The failure rate must be pretty high on these little speakers.
One thing I have learned, though, is to protect the speaker until the very last moments before installation so it can not pick up the least little speck of iron filing or other ferrous gunk! That will kill the voice coil travel in a heartbeat.
In one of my threads maybe a year ago I was looking for a very thin fabric, somewhat like grille cloth but much finer, to seal the holes in the bottom of a tender frame in order to keep out the ferrous gunk.
So, just like any lamps or LEDs you're going to install in a locomotive — test them first!
I mentioned the MP3 player I use but a plain old radio will work if you use the earphone jack and get a cheap pair of ear buds and cut them off to use the cord with the 1/8" plug. Don't overdrive the speaker but at least you will get an idea of the sound quality.
I'm sure Intermountain will send you another speaker but... if it were my choice, I'd go with one of the Railmaster models... just my 2¢
Regards, Ed
Ed, that is interesting stuff about speakers and speaker failures.
I have never done a sound decoder install, just non-sound decoder installs. I would never have attempted this one, but once the Intermountain tech described it as a drop-in install, I thought, what the heck.
The installation went so smoothly that I never expected any follow-up problems. As I previously mentioned, this has been a real learning experience. I wonder what specifically was wrong with that speaker.
Aha some very good troubleshooting on this. I had no idea it could be the speaker I either, so I'm surprised as well.
In any case, at least we finally figured it out.
Let us know what Intermountain says.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Depends on where you are at with installations. First installs, you tend to not have spare parts to swap for testing. In the early days I built a decoder tester. And promptly tossed it in a drawer and never touched it again. I keep eying the Loksound decoder tester, but think about how I never used to one I built for just a few dollars in parts. I have enough spare parts and extras now that it's no big deal do twap in another decoder to see if the problem is the decoder, or grab another speaker and try that. Thiose are the things I would have tried, but I have the spare parts available. After a few installs it's easy to build up a supply of spares (plus the fact that I use only 2 types of decoders - I actually have spare decoders. I'm not so worried about Loksound ones - they can always be updated to the latest firmware easily enough, but if TCS adds features, the ones I have are stuck).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A couple of the guys mentioned the possibility of a blown amp on the decoder. Had that been the problem, is there a way to test for such an issue?
richhotrain A couple of the guys mentioned the possibility of a blown amp on the decoder. Had that been the problem, is there a way to test for such an issue? Rich
If you have sound with the new speaker, you don't have a blown amp. Simple as that.
DigitalGriffin richhotrain A couple of the guys mentioned the possibility of a blown amp on the decoder. Had that been the problem, is there a way to test for such an issue? Rich If you have sound with the new speaker, you don't have a blown amp. Simple as that.
Randy:
In my case I have hard wired all of my decoders to date so I was going on faith by not testing them first. Swapping out a hard wired decoder isn't as easy as a direct replacement obviously. I foolishly removed a decoder in a very tiny critter a while ago because I thought it was toast. Turned out that it was me not putting in the correct address. The decoder was fine, but I did so much damage to the critter's shell that I had to order a second kit to get it back together. I still haven't fixed it because I get so annoyed every time I pick the thing up.
Having thought about Rich's situation and the comments that have been made, perhaps the smartest route would be to test the speaker before doing anything else.
I hard wire all of mine, too, but that hard wiring usually involves a connector of some sort. One of these days I'll do something too small to have a connector - but even in my 44 tonner I used the MC2 from TCS, which has a very small connector instead of the rather large 9 pin JST type most all my other locos have. That means I'd have to get another MC2 decoder to try a swap in that one. There will be cases where the only way to swap is to break out the soldering iron, or cut the wires and splice in a new decoder. But so far I've never had a DOA one, nor had any fail after install.
hon30critter Having thought about Rich's situation and the comments that have been made, perhaps the smartest route would be to test the speaker before doing anything else.
The anticipated installation turned out to be so easy that I gave no thought to a component failure. Installed the decoder and speaker, programmed the long address, and placed it on the layout. Instantly heard sound, turned on the lights (headlight, Mars light, numberboards) and all worked, started the loco moving, yeah baby.
The one problem was that the horn volume was very low. Then, I noticed that the sound would cut out when I pressed the F2 button. So, my first thought was a defective decoder since the speaker seemed to be working. That's when I started this thread.
I had no way to test the decoder, so my only option was to find a replacement speaker and try that. Luckily, the speaker turned out to be the problem. So, now, I just have to get the properly sized replacement speaker.
You can't get much more drop in replacement than this, using the very same components the same loco was available equipped with right from the factory, plus having even the non-sound version chassis already set up for the speaker and decoder mounting. Just bad luck on getting a defective speaker.
rrinker You can't get much more drop in replacement than this, using the very same components the same loco was available equipped with right from the factory, plus having even the non-sound version chassis already set up for the speaker and decoder mounting.
You can't get much more drop in replacement than this, using the very same components the same loco was available equipped with right from the factory, plus having even the non-sound version chassis already set up for the speaker and decoder mounting.
Pretty good deal, actually - less than the price difference between the no sound and the sound one, I think. Price difference is usually $100 for most brands of locos.
Got a message from Intermountain today. A new speaker is on the way. The newer F unit baffle is also be included with the new speaker. I am told that the sound should be "obnoxiously loud" with this new combination. Stay tuned.
Very nice, glad to hear Intermountain is taking care of you on this.
Motley Very nice, glad to hear Intermountain is taking care of you on this.
That has been my experience with Intermountain too.
richhotrain Got a message from Intermountain today. A new speaker is on the way. The newer F unit baffle is also be included with the new speaker. I am told that the sound should be "obnoxiously loud" with this new combination. Stay tuned. Rich
Despite Intermountain's best efforts to provide me with a quality speaker setup, I still encountered problems with the installation. Along with the new speaker, the technician also sent a different baffle, but I wound up using the initial baffle that had been sent to me in December.
I am not sure why the speaker does not fit tight into the baffle, but it doesn't. I needed to add a gasket to push the back of the speaker up into the baffle. Even then, I had to wrap electrical tape around the edges of the baffle to totally seal it and provide a better seal for louder volume. But, all's well that ends well.
I had a problem exactly like this in 2 locos I was testing on DCC. It was a result of too much resistance in the track. After I put an ammeter on it, I discovered that there is a surge draw, especially when the horn is blown.
Check your track for poor connections, dirt, damage, dirty wheels, dirty/bad motor, or anything that may cause more current to be drawn.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
I should make one final comment about this thread. In retrospect, I regret the title, Problems with a LokSound Select decoder. Turned out, it was not the decoder at all, it was the speaker.
Rich:
I'm not sure if you know this, but you can edit the title of the thread. Just go back to your original post and click on 'Edit' and you will see that the title can be changed as well as the text.
hon30critter Rich: I'm not sure if you know this, but you can edit the title of the thread. Just go back to your original post and click on 'Edit' and you will see that the title can be changed as well as the text. Dave
Yeah, I knew that I could that, but I decided not to since it reflected my original concern that something was amiss with the decoder.