I was going to put a jumper across to check the switch. When I pressed on the lead a noticed the LED came on. I pressed on the wire and it moved. I resoldered the connection and both LEDs work as well as the turnout throw. All of the circuit diagram was correct. There are ten other turnouts wire exactly the same way. As I said in an earier tread before I install the LEDs throught the panel I strip A piece of black and red insulation from a wire and cover the LED leads. That way I know to install the Red lead to the Black lead. It avoid trying to figure which is the Long or Short.
Harold
rrinker If he was getting no power because of a bad connection, then neither of the LEDs probably needed to be reversed. Like I said at the beginning - the DIAGRAM is absolutely correct, it has the correct LED polarities. But actually hooking it up - it's easy to get one backwards, especially if the leads have been trimmed. --Randy
If he was getting no power because of a bad connection, then neither of the LEDs probably needed to be reversed.
Like I said at the beginning - the DIAGRAM is absolutely correct, it has the correct LED polarities. But actually hooking it up - it's easy to get one backwards, especially if the leads have been trimmed.
--Randy
Rich
Alton Junction
rrinker Sure it does - the bas solder joint was not on pins 3 or 4, it was on one of the cross wires.
Sure it does - the bas solder joint was not on pins 3 or 4, it was on one of the cross wires.
I put the voltmeter probes on #3 and #4 terminals of one my perfectly well soldered DPDT switches and failed to get a reading. Then I flipped the switch and got the expected voltage reading. Flipped the switch again, no reading. Reversed the probes and got the expected voltage reading.
So, at this point, Harold has not explained the zero reading on his switch.
And, we are left to believe that correcting the poor solder joint solved the problem without having to do anything with the LED conection.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So, once the poor soldering job was corrected, did it work as diagrammed?
Was Randy's solution to reverse the two LEDs incorrect?
Sure it does - the bas solder joint was not on pins 3 or 4, it was on one of the cross wires. So, flip switch one way - the way that connects the input to the center, you get a reading. Flip it the other way, where it has to pass through the X wires, except the one of the X wires is not correctly attached, loose, whatever - now there will be no voltage at 3 and 4.
I go for the reversed LED because that's USUALLY the easier thing to mess up than a basic solder joint Heck, usually if you crimp the wires on the switch lugs tight enough, it 'works' before even soldering it.
maxman, I agree with you. It does not explain the zero voltage nor does it adress LION and Randy's contention that the LED is simply wired in reverse. Just one more mystery thread on the Electronics and DCC forum.
richhotrain hwolf OK Lets use the KISS method. The trouble was a poor solder connection at the switch. Harold LOL Don't you love it? Rich
hwolf OK Lets use the KISS method. The trouble was a poor solder connection at the switch. Harold
OK
Lets use the KISS method.
The trouble was a poor solder connection at the switch.
LOL
Don't you love it?
Still doesn't explain the zero voltage on points 3 and 4, unless that's the switch he means.
mikeGTW maxman I think you are correct I was looking at the connections on the tortoise not the toggle from the readings he states it may be the toggle is bad or like you say the meter leads
maxman I think you are correct I was looking at the connections on the tortoise not the toggle from the readings he states it may be the toggle is bad or like you say the meter leads
When LION trouble shoots a problem, him goes back to the device (The Turnout and the LEDS) and him checks for power and polarity. LION uses a common ground to the BUILDING GROUND. No floating neutral for this LION, for that would be the home to all sorts of stry voltages. GROUND your NEUTRAL!
Then him has only ONE wire to trouble shoot. Voltage and Polarity. Is it there or is it not. Is it *supposed* to be there, or do you have a voltage that does not belong there. LION has SIX different power supplies on the layout of him. All have a common GROUND, lbut each has its own purpose for being.
LION has found incontinuities in the most wierdest of places. Him finds them by slow metheodical testing testing testing of the circuit in question. For example, LION uses naild as binding posts for solder connections. In one location the nails were toching INSIDE of the wood. That one took a while to figuire out. LION clipped both ends of the circuit, and still had voltage on it. Him kept clipping wires until him came to the offending nail.
Circuits are like that. Test Test Test. In another location a lead from a reed switch was touching the power rail, putting power on a circuit that should have been dead.
Test Test Test. LION could tell more, but ewe get the idea.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
maxman hwolf Wired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV Please forgive my lack of understanding of things electrical, but I don't see how either the Tortoise nor the LEDs have any thing to do with the zero volts DC read at points 3 and 4. As I see the diagram, DC power comes in at points 5 and 6 and then gets jumpered to points 1 and 2 on the toggle switch. They should all read the same voltage. When the toggle is thrown points 3 and 4 get directly connected to either points 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. Therefore they, points 3 and 4, should read the same voltage as the points to which they are connected. If there really is a reading of 0 volts at points 3 and 4, either the toggle switch is bad, or the OP has not changed the meter leads to account for the reverse polarity.
hwolf Wired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV
Please forgive my lack of understanding of things electrical, but I don't see how either the Tortoise nor the LEDs have any thing to do with the zero volts DC read at points 3 and 4.
As I see the diagram, DC power comes in at points 5 and 6 and then gets jumpered to points 1 and 2 on the toggle switch. They should all read the same voltage. When the toggle is thrown points 3 and 4 get directly connected to either points 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. Therefore they, points 3 and 4, should read the same voltage as the points to which they are connected.
If there really is a reading of 0 volts at points 3 and 4, either the toggle switch is bad, or the OP has not changed the meter leads to account for the reverse polarity.
Harold was probably guilty of not flipping his two meter probes on the 3 and 4 terminals on the DPDT. Every time that you flip that toggle, the positive (+) and negative (-) polarities are reversed, so those meter probes need to be reversed as well or you get a zero voltage reading.
In my experience, a DPDT switch rarely, if ever, fails.
hwolfWired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV
Harold I still think you have it correct just maybe a bad led but how are you reading voltage across 3-4 and 5-6 do you have other connections not shown
LION did do it that way.
Ed, that panel is a thing of beauty.
Now, I see your point. You cannot have enough LEDs !
Hi, Rich, Harold
richhotrain hwolf If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout. My first reaction is, why not wire both Tortoises together to throw all four turnouts at the same time? If both tracks are routed straight through, no probem. Green. If one crossover is thrown divergent, only one train is going through. Red. My second reaction is, why not use a single bi-polar LED? Green straight through, red divergent. Rich
hwolf If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout.
If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout.
My first reaction is, why not wire both Tortoises together to throw all four turnouts at the same time?
If both tracks are routed straight through, no probem. Green.
If one crossover is thrown divergent, only one train is going through. Red.
My second reaction is, why not use a single bi-polar LED?
Green straight through, red divergent.
There's really no limit to the number of LEDs you want for showing your route clearly. Even though I don't have each track labeled here (yet) you can follow the route of the green LEDs here pretty easily. I don't have a wider shot of the panel in photobucket but I can post one if needed to show the bigger view of the model board.
You can see you are lined for diverging from the top main crossing all the way down to the second diverging route into Union Station (label got cropped) the "orange" LED is supposed to be red but the flash discolored it.
The three rotary switches control two Tortoises on double slip switches. A=straight; B=diverge L; C=diverge R and D=cross diagonal. four LEDs show each double slip and two LEDs show each regular turnout.
Wiring is simple only on one leg of the supply to the Tortoise, bi=color LEDs wired a-c-c-a just remember each LED you add reduces available voltage by something like .7-.8 volts so you may need to boost supply voltage but Tortoises are happy with anything from 12 down to about 8 VDC.
I did both of my double crossovers (four Tortoises each!) using only one bi-color LED. In my case I simply have N normal or R reverse. So straight through is green, both crossing is red. (wish they made a red/yellow bi-color)
Rich, I only assumed with the wealth of information here that the OP did get squared away... maybe NOT?
Ed
BroadwayLion LION shewed ewe wiring. ROAR
LION shewed ewe wiring.
Harold, how do you control each Tortoise? Do you have a pair of DPDT switches on the control panel?
If so, solder a resistor onto one leg, either leg, of a bi-polar LED and connect the two legs to #3 and #4 terminals on the DPDT. If the wrong color appears, reverse the two legs. Do that on each DPDT with each bi-polar LED. And, don't forget to add one resistor to each bi-polar LED.
The turnout have been in for years. I just want to add the BI Color LEDS.
SHOW wiring.
As a quick fault isolation test, you can simply jumper a wire across the LEDs so that they are not part of the circuit. If it works when you do that, the LEDs are the problem, either the wiring or a faulty LED. If it doesn't work with the LEDs bypassed, then there's a problem with the Tortoise.
I, too, plan to use bi-color LEDs. A single green or red indicator on a panel is fine for you, but it's not obvious to the casual observer or other operator which is the green path and which is red. My current project is a yard throat, so a pair of red-green LEDs on the panel will give an unambiguous indication.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I was thinking. I had installed several other turnout but I don't think that was one. I had a problem with the throw of the point. I think this one was already working. I was also wondering if an LED was bad would that break the curcuit. Got an answer. It will be tomorrow before I can go check.
I like to use two LEDs onthe layout I think it looks great. It also looks good on the control panel.
There are no LEDs on this right now.
gmpullman Glad you got squared away
Glad you got squared away
He said he would try Randy's suggestion, but we haven't heard back.
gmpullman OR, what I use are bi-polar LEDs and simply insert it in one side of the circuit going to 1 & 8 on the tortoise. I just make a quick test before I solder and heat shrink to be sure the red/green orientation is what I want for that turnout.
OR, what I use are bi-polar LEDs and simply insert it in one side of the circuit going to 1 & 8 on the tortoise. I just make a quick test before I solder and heat shrink to be sure the red/green orientation is what I want for that turnout.
rrinker No need to do that - and also to do that you MUST add resistors.
No need to do that - and also to do that you MUST add resistors.