http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/Hwolf_photos/Ski%20Lift/wiring-leds_zps0c8f92b1.jpg
I am having a problem with the wiring on one of my Tortouse switches. Here is the problem. The switch will only throw in on direction. Same for the LED.
Wired as of the drawing above.
When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV
When switch is thrown here are the reading
1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV
I can not find any broken wires and solder joints are good.
Thanks in advance
Harold
Put the control wires from the toggle switch on 1 and 8 and use the other auxiliary contacts to control the LED's.
If you don't mind please show a drawing.
Your LED's are wired incoreectly. You must turn one of them around because the polarity going to them is reversed when the switch is thrown. The short leg is Negative, the long leg is positive. When you throw the switch your reverse the polarity to leds. Since they are in series with the machine when you reverse the current, none flows to the machine because of the reversed polarity of the LED.
This is how the LION does it:
LION uses a common ground, and only a single wire from the control to the turnout.
Him does not put them in seres with the switch motor.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
retsignalmtr Put the control wires from the toggle switch on 1 and 8 and use the other auxiliary contacts to control the LED's.
Connect DPDT 3 to Tort 8
Connect one leg of Red LED to Tort 5
Connect one leg of Green LED to Tort 6
Connect Tort 7 to one side of DC
Connect other two LED legs to other side of DC
If LEDs don't light, reverse DC connections from Tort and LEDs.
If the Red and Green LEDs light the opposite of intended, reverse Tort 5 and Tort 6 connections.
Rich
Alton Junction
No need to do that - and also to do that you MUST add resistors.
The way he has it is fine, just one of the LEDs is backwards. Reverse the wires on either the red or green LED - just one of them - and it will work fine. It's shown in the diagram correctly - long lead of one LED to short lead of the other, or lead on the flat side to the lead on the round side of the other. But not all LEDs are marked the same way, and if the leads have been cut to fit a panel, you can't use that as an indicator.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy
That seem simple enough. I slip a piece of colored insulation from wires over the leeds to remined me the long and short of it. That way I just solder Red to Black I might have put them on the wrong leed.
OR, what I use are bi-polar LEDs and simply insert it in one side of the circuit going to 1 & 8 on the tortoise. I just make a quick test before I solder and heat shrink to be sure the red/green orientation is what I want for that turnout.
Out of maybe 100 bi-color LEDs I only had one fail and what happens is what you are experiencing, current only flows one way.
Glad you got squared away, Ed
Some people are ok with on LED, others want an LED in each leg on the schematic - that's why I used TWO bicolor LEDs LOL. That way, the selected route was lit green, and the blocked route was lit red.
Actually, it IS a bit easier, one less thing to wire. What you are doing by taking an individual red and green LED and wiring them to each other in reverse parallel is creating a 2 lead bi-color LED. What's electrically inside a 2-lead bi-color LED is exactly the same as the individual red and green LEDs wired anti-parallel.
If the LEDs are clear instead of diffused, the other way to tell which end is which is to hold them up tot he light, and you cna see the innards. One lead will attach to a chunk of metal, the other will have a tiny whiscker of a wire that contacts the top middle of the big chunk - that fine wire might not be visible unless the case is truly clear, not see-through red or green. But you can definitely see which lead is the big chunk - in this case just connect that lead to the one that is NOT the big chunk of the other LED, and you'll have it right for this application.
harold I think you have the circuit correct you may have a bad led if it works in one dir and the led lights when you try the oposite dir does the led light if not try to jumper across that led and see if the tortoise moves that circuit you are using is posted on tonys train exchange and it does work I just think you have a bad led
http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/tortoise/wiring-leds.htm
rrinker No need to do that - and also to do that you MUST add resistors.
gmpullman OR, what I use are bi-polar LEDs and simply insert it in one side of the circuit going to 1 & 8 on the tortoise. I just make a quick test before I solder and heat shrink to be sure the red/green orientation is what I want for that turnout.
gmpullman Glad you got squared away
Glad you got squared away
He said he would try Randy's suggestion, but we haven't heard back.
I was thinking. I had installed several other turnout but I don't think that was one. I had a problem with the throw of the point. I think this one was already working. I was also wondering if an LED was bad would that break the curcuit. Got an answer. It will be tomorrow before I can go check.
I like to use two LEDs onthe layout I think it looks great. It also looks good on the control panel.
If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout.
There are no LEDs on this right now.
As a quick fault isolation test, you can simply jumper a wire across the LEDs so that they are not part of the circuit. If it works when you do that, the LEDs are the problem, either the wiring or a faulty LED. If it doesn't work with the LEDs bypassed, then there's a problem with the Tortoise.
I, too, plan to use bi-color LEDs. A single green or red indicator on a panel is fine for you, but it's not obvious to the casual observer or other operator which is the green path and which is red. My current project is a yard throat, so a pair of red-green LEDs on the panel will give an unambiguous indication.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
hwolf If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout.
My first reaction is, why not wire both Tortoises together to throw all four turnouts at the same time?
If both tracks are routed straight through, no probem. Green.
If one crossover is thrown divergent, only one train is going through. Red.
My second reaction is, why not use a single bi-polar LED?
Green straight through, red divergent.
The turnout have been in for years. I just want to add the BI Color LEDS.
SHOW wiring.
Harold, how do you control each Tortoise? Do you have a pair of DPDT switches on the control panel?
If so, solder a resistor onto one leg, either leg, of a bi-polar LED and connect the two legs to #3 and #4 terminals on the DPDT. If the wrong color appears, reverse the two legs. Do that on each DPDT with each bi-polar LED. And, don't forget to add one resistor to each bi-polar LED.
LION shewed ewe wiring.
ROAR
BroadwayLion LION shewed ewe wiring. ROAR
Hi, Rich, Harold
richhotrain hwolf If you want to work on something ,try this. I have a double crossover controled by two Tottouse switch machines. Each machine controls two turnouts. Show me the wiring for a Bi Color LEDs (2) to show me the position of each turnout. My first reaction is, why not wire both Tortoises together to throw all four turnouts at the same time? If both tracks are routed straight through, no probem. Green. If one crossover is thrown divergent, only one train is going through. Red. My second reaction is, why not use a single bi-polar LED? Green straight through, red divergent. Rich
There's really no limit to the number of LEDs you want for showing your route clearly. Even though I don't have each track labeled here (yet) you can follow the route of the green LEDs here pretty easily. I don't have a wider shot of the panel in photobucket but I can post one if needed to show the bigger view of the model board.
You can see you are lined for diverging from the top main crossing all the way down to the second diverging route into Union Station (label got cropped) the "orange" LED is supposed to be red but the flash discolored it.
The three rotary switches control two Tortoises on double slip switches. A=straight; B=diverge L; C=diverge R and D=cross diagonal. four LEDs show each double slip and two LEDs show each regular turnout.
Wiring is simple only on one leg of the supply to the Tortoise, bi=color LEDs wired a-c-c-a just remember each LED you add reduces available voltage by something like .7-.8 volts so you may need to boost supply voltage but Tortoises are happy with anything from 12 down to about 8 VDC.
I did both of my double crossovers (four Tortoises each!) using only one bi-color LED. In my case I simply have N normal or R reverse. So straight through is green, both crossing is red. (wish they made a red/yellow bi-color)
Rich, I only assumed with the wealth of information here that the OP did get squared away... maybe NOT?
Ed
Ed, that panel is a thing of beauty.
Now, I see your point. You cannot have enough LEDs !
LION did do it that way.
Harold I still think you have it correct just maybe a bad led but how are you reading voltage across 3-4 and 5-6 do you have other connections not shown
hwolfWired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV
Please forgive my lack of understanding of things electrical, but I don't see how either the Tortoise nor the LEDs have any thing to do with the zero volts DC read at points 3 and 4.
As I see the diagram, DC power comes in at points 5 and 6 and then gets jumpered to points 1 and 2 on the toggle switch. They should all read the same voltage. When the toggle is thrown points 3 and 4 get directly connected to either points 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. Therefore they, points 3 and 4, should read the same voltage as the points to which they are connected.
If there really is a reading of 0 volts at points 3 and 4, either the toggle switch is bad, or the OP has not changed the meter leads to account for the reverse polarity.
maxman I think you are correct I was looking at the connections on the tortoise not the toggle from the readings he states it may be the toggle is bad or like you say the meter leads
maxman hwolf Wired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV Please forgive my lack of understanding of things electrical, but I don't see how either the Tortoise nor the LEDs have any thing to do with the zero volts DC read at points 3 and 4. As I see the diagram, DC power comes in at points 5 and 6 and then gets jumpered to points 1 and 2 on the toggle switch. They should all read the same voltage. When the toggle is thrown points 3 and 4 get directly connected to either points 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. Therefore they, points 3 and 4, should read the same voltage as the points to which they are connected. If there really is a reading of 0 volts at points 3 and 4, either the toggle switch is bad, or the OP has not changed the meter leads to account for the reverse polarity.
hwolf Wired as of the drawing above. When the switch is in one position reading across 1-2 3-4 5-6 all are at 9.45 DCV When switch is thrown here are the reading 1-2 9.45DCV 3-4 0 DCV 5-6 9.45 DCV
Harold was probably guilty of not flipping his two meter probes on the 3 and 4 terminals on the DPDT. Every time that you flip that toggle, the positive (+) and negative (-) polarities are reversed, so those meter probes need to be reversed as well or you get a zero voltage reading.
In my experience, a DPDT switch rarely, if ever, fails.
mikeGTW maxman I think you are correct I was looking at the connections on the tortoise not the toggle from the readings he states it may be the toggle is bad or like you say the meter leads
When LION trouble shoots a problem, him goes back to the device (The Turnout and the LEDS) and him checks for power and polarity. LION uses a common ground to the BUILDING GROUND. No floating neutral for this LION, for that would be the home to all sorts of stry voltages. GROUND your NEUTRAL!
Then him has only ONE wire to trouble shoot. Voltage and Polarity. Is it there or is it not. Is it *supposed* to be there, or do you have a voltage that does not belong there. LION has SIX different power supplies on the layout of him. All have a common GROUND, lbut each has its own purpose for being.
LION has found incontinuities in the most wierdest of places. Him finds them by slow metheodical testing testing testing of the circuit in question. For example, LION uses naild as binding posts for solder connections. In one location the nails were toching INSIDE of the wood. That one took a while to figuire out. LION clipped both ends of the circuit, and still had voltage on it. Him kept clipping wires until him came to the offending nail.
Circuits are like that. Test Test Test. In another location a lead from a reed switch was touching the power rail, putting power on a circuit that should have been dead.
Test Test Test. LION could tell more, but ewe get the idea.
OK
Lets use the KISS method.
The trouble was a poor solder connection at the switch.