rrinker Rich you keep color coding your wires opposite from what was shown in the OP's photo of his AR-1. He has the red rail to the rear (top) on BOTH mains. --Randy
Rich you keep color coding your wires opposite from what was shown in the OP's photo of his AR-1. He has the red rail to the rear (top) on BOTH mains.
--Randy
Rich
Alton Junction
Only in the isolated (gapped) reversing sections. The rest of the layout is red outer rail, blue/black inner rail.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
trafficdesign BMMECNYC Would you mind satisfying a curiosity of mine real quick? Could you set your volt meter to 200 range AC volts and touch the leads to the track at the shorting location and tell me what voltage you get? It should read either approximately 14.5V +0/-2 or 32V +1/-1, depending on how your voltmeter interperets the AC voltage, dont worry if it does read around 30V, thats just your voltmeter not understanding the DCC signal in the track. Happy to try this but not sure I understand where you'd like me to check it. Do I put the probes on either side of the gap on the same rail (red, gap, red) or on opposite rails. (red, blue)?
BMMECNYC Would you mind satisfying a curiosity of mine real quick? Could you set your volt meter to 200 range AC volts and touch the leads to the track at the shorting location and tell me what voltage you get? It should read either approximately 14.5V +0/-2 or 32V +1/-1, depending on how your voltmeter interperets the AC voltage, dont worry if it does read around 30V, thats just your voltmeter not understanding the DCC signal in the track.
Would you mind satisfying a curiosity of mine real quick? Could you set your volt meter to 200 range AC volts and touch the leads to the track at the shorting location and tell me what voltage you get? It should read either approximately 14.5V +0/-2 or 32V +1/-1, depending on how your voltmeter interperets the AC voltage, dont worry if it does read around 30V, thats just your voltmeter not understanding the DCC signal in the track.
Happy to try this but not sure I understand where you'd like me to check it. Do I put the probes on either side of the gap on the same rail (red, gap, red) or on opposite rails. (red, blue)?
Track voltage at the point where the short is occuring, with track power on and no locomotive. 1 lead from the voltmeter touching each of the 2 rails. Additionally check the voltage at several points througout the north and south mains with the power on. This may show if you are losing power due to resistance from rail joiners, the rail, etc.
The paper packaging is an old style of packaging, the plastic and cardboard is newer.
This is crazy. We have an 8-page thread but very little progress.
I am including my track diagram once again. This setup definitely should work.
But, it assumes several conditions.
1. The AR-1 is working correctly. This has been confirmed.
2. The gaps are correctly placed. This has been confirmed.
3. The feeders are appropriately wired. This has been confirmed.
4. There are sufficient feeders to provide electrical continuity across the entire reversing section. This is suspect because every end of every turnout is not wired.
5. The turnouts that form the crossovers are all functioning properly and provide electrical continuity. We now know that at least one turnout is faulty.
trafficdesign But remember that the south main had feeders to the AR1 and received power until I disconnected them. It was only then that I 'discovered' the faulty turnout. In addition, the short occured when the power from the AR1 flowed to all rails.
But remember that the south main had feeders to the AR1 and received power until I disconnected them. It was only then that I 'discovered' the faulty turnout. In addition, the short occured when the power from the AR1 flowed to all rails.
Once again, what I would do would be to temporarily remove the crossovers and replace them with straight track on each main. Put back the feeders on the south main. Then, test the reversing section.
BMMECNYC Was in in paper packaging or cardboard and plastic?
Was in in paper packaging or cardboard and plastic?
Honestly don't remember. Would it make a difference to the design of the turnout and they way it routed power?
BMMECNYC If you have a rotary tool, dremel or other-wise, you can put a cut-off disc on and cut through the rail of the offending turnout. Just make sure your rolling stock is clear (sparks, other objects. when you go to put it back in just solder one in, being careful to align the rails.
If you have a rotary tool, dremel or other-wise, you can put a cut-off disc on and cut through the rail of the offending turnout. Just make sure your rolling stock is clear (sparks, other objects. when you go to put it back in just solder one in, being careful to align the rails.
Good suggestion. Thanks!
trafficdesign All turnouts are Atlas Code 100 #6s with dead frogs. But my understanding is that even with a non-powered frog the power is supposed to 'flow' independent of the ways that the points are thrown??? Is this correct??? Can this be fixed by soldering wires to the rails or do I need a new turnout and could this be the fix to my issues?
All turnouts are Atlas Code 100 #6s with dead frogs. But my understanding is that even with a non-powered frog the power is supposed to 'flow' independent of the ways that the points are thrown??? Is this correct???
Can this be fixed by soldering wires to the rails or do I need a new turnout and could this be the fix to my issues?
Power flows across the turnout regardless of the way the point rails are thrown. However, if one or more of the jumpers are loose, broken, or missing, there will not be electrical continuity across the turnout. It is possible to repair a faulty turnout where continuity is lacking, if you are good with a soldering iron.
If this were my layout, I would temporarily remove the two crossovers and add a straight track on each main to test the entire operation of the reversing section.
richhotrain I don't know what is wrong with that turnout, but let's take a trip around your layout. Now, let's say that before the loco arrived at gap #2, you throw the points on the turnouts to diverge. Without any power on the south main due to the malfunctioning turnout, the loco should stop, but there should be no short because there is no power, no mismatched polarities.
I don't know what is wrong with that turnout, but let's take a trip around your layout.
Now, let's say that before the loco arrived at gap #2, you throw the points on the turnouts to diverge. Without any power on the south main due to the malfunctioning turnout, the loco should stop, but there should be no short because there is no power, no mismatched polarities.
richhotrain I guess that the only suggestion to be made at this point is to replace the faulty turnout because it is not working. And, then, go from there.
I guess that the only suggestion to be made at this point is to replace the faulty turnout because it is not working. And, then, go from there.
I will replace it tomorrow and then we will see...
A loco heads east on the north main and crosses the gap at #4, no short, and continues on through the gap at #3, no short, then crosses the gap at #2. A short occurs, as expected, since the polarities are mismatched, but the AR-1 should flip the polarities and avoid a short, but it doesn't do that. I cannot explain that since there is power at that site and a working AR-1.
Here whats happening when the turnout is set to through. All track gets power.
When the turnout is set to diverge (points in pic are not set to diverge but I am just using it to illustrate) no power gets through to the rails...
Could this be my issue????
Am out now getting the kids but will diagram exactly what's happening as soon as I get home.
OK, with the power to your layout off, you need to conduct an electrical continuity test throughout the reversing section. Which rails are receiving power and which are not? It is beginning to become clear that the polarity is mismatched and not being flipped at gaps #2, see my previous diagram. Without electrical continuity, power is being unevenly distributed on your layout. You are going to have to remove that offending turnout.
richhotrain Free beer??? What state do you live in? Rich
Free beer??? What state do you live in?
i'm in the great white north!!! Toronto, Canada. Good beer up here, too!!!
trafficdesign richhotrain Those turnouts better not be power routing or we are coming to hunt you down. Rich Absolutely not - there seems to be one of the 4 that is unlike the others and is causing problems. Pic attached. My guess is that it is an older version of the Atlas or is defective.
richhotrain Those turnouts better not be power routing or we are coming to hunt you down. Rich
Those turnouts better not be power routing or we are coming to hunt you down.
Absolutely not - there seems to be one of the 4 that is unlike the others and is causing problems. Pic attached. My guess is that it is an older version of the Atlas or is defective.
Was in in paper packaging or cardboard and plastic? If you have a rotary tool, dremel or other-wise, you can put a cut-off disc on and cut through the rail of the offending turnout. Just make sure your rolling stock is clear (sparks, other objects. when you go to put it back in just solder one in, being careful to align the rails.
You have pretty much convinced me that your gaps are correct and that your wiring is correct. Therefore, this should all work. If you have a faulty turnout, nothing is going to get these mainlines working, so you are pretty much doomed to remove one or more of those turnouts. If you want this layout up and running, I don't see where you have a choice.
If you were yto show up it would be welcome as I could take you out and buy you all a beer as a big thank you for all of your help! :-)
richhotrain Can you temporarily pull the two crossovers and put a section of main line track in place? Rich
Can you temporarily pull the two crossovers and put a section of main line track in place?
Top left crossover on north main when set to divergent route does not conduct power from the AR1 to the north main to the right of the crossover
I wonder how much work it would be to temporarily remove the two crossovers so that each main is a straight through run. If there is something wrong with one of the turnouts, it would help to remove the crossovers and just test the mains.
BMMECNYC Rich, Ive had that feeling since yesterday. Something just does not add up. Why is it shorting on only the one spot? Andrew
Rich,
Ive had that feeling since yesterday. Something just does not add up. Why is it shorting on only the one spot?
Andrew
BMMECNYC Rich, The North and South Main are still electrically connected through the crossvers. Andrew
The North and South Main are still electrically connected through the crossvers.
correction: I might have just found the issue and it is with a crossover that is not conducting power from the north main to the left of the crossovers to the north main Section to the right of the crossover.... Let me diagram it and I will upload In half an hour.
But, then he says that a short immediately occurs when the train re-enters the south main, crossing gaps #2. But, the AR-1 should react to the mismatch and flip polarities at that point. Something doesn't add up here.