I'm not sure how it is with the other makers, but it's not hard to become a Digitrax dealer. I dont think they even have a minimum stocking requirement. However, the LHS I usually go to refuses to do this, even though they always stock a good variety of Digitrax equipment. They just get it through Walthers, which means it ends up being priced way above what I can get it from elsewhere, so I just don't buy any DCC stuff there.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Santa Fe all the way! I guess my ignorance of these issues at the time I purchased the system, allowed me to make the purchase just on the merits of the Prodigy Squared system without MRC's past and present problems getting in the way.
And therein lies their challenge. It seems to me that they have a strategy of mass marketing through regular hobby shops rather than the DCC specialists. They also seem to be adopting a strategy of allowing very large discounts through mail order houses like Mircromark. Low cost manufacture in China no doubt helps in this. In other-words, they seem to be doing a half decent job of marketing to those that don't have any preconceived idea about them and probably selling a lot of system in the process.
Recent advertising showing that large layouts and clubs are switching to MRC is clearly in an effort to increase credibility amongst more established DCC users as well. I think that had they allowed DecoderPro support of the PC interface they could have significantly increased credibility as well and for that matter sold more PC interface sets! That decision baffles me to say the least.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Here are my personal likes and dislikes for MRC Prodigy Advance2 and Prodigy Wireless, both of which I have used on my layout:
Likes:
1. Nice throttle, that for me is a little easier to use than NCE's hammerhead. Seems shorter and lighter. I like the speed knob located near the bottom.
2. Nice, large display.
3. 3.5 amp system.
4. Full featured and easy to learn and use, e.g., programming, consisting, turnout control, routes, clock, etc.
5. 25 loco recall stack and very easy to add and delete locos from the stack.
6. Optional speed control buttons. Nice for control when uncoupling cars.
7. Wireless throttle has a dedicated program on the main button, a button for saving the last 5 locos used (will remain in the system at next start-up), a button for checking battery voltage, an on-off power switch, and an internal antenna.
8. And a great feature is the built-in battery charger on the wireless throttle.
9. Priced below other systems with comparable features.
Dislikes:
1. Flat cable on PA2 throttle.
2. Quality and cost of their plug-in panels. Cable kept pulling loose if pulled on, even lightly.
3. Had occasional loss of loco control with wireless version (had latest version) but didn't happen often enough to be a real problem.
4. Lack of support for JMRI (Decoder Pro). This was a major concern for me.
5. Too many button presses for turnout control compared to Digitrax.
6. No back-lit display.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
simon1966 Santa Fe all the way!but why doesnt the Prodigy Sq. system get any respect? First of all I think most people acknowledge that the current line of MRC DCC systems are really quite good. You will rarely see any real technical complaint about the systems. However, I believe the lack of respect for MRC as a company is as a result of several things. 1. Multiple missteps by MRC in entering the DCC market resulting in orphan product that has no upgrade path or support, 2. The terrible reputation of their decoders. This seems to be ongoing and enduring and has significantly damaged the goodwill the company deservedly had from its DC product line. 3. A perceived arrogance by MRC, first exhibited in their advertising, and more recently in their decision to not allow support of their system by 3rd party software like DecoderPro. 4. The fact that the systems are made in China. The truth of the matter is that MRC may well be doing very well in the DCC control market and may well be taking market share away from the more traditional established leaders in the US. But, I think it is undeniable that MRC has a serious credibility and lack of respect from many, a situation that is largely self induced by MRC by its own actions.
Santa Fe all the way!but why doesnt the Prodigy Sq. system get any respect?
First of all I think most people acknowledge that the current line of MRC DCC systems are really quite good. You will rarely see any real technical complaint about the systems.
However, I believe the lack of respect for MRC as a company is as a result of several things.
1. Multiple missteps by MRC in entering the DCC market resulting in orphan product that has no upgrade path or support,
2. The terrible reputation of their decoders. This seems to be ongoing and enduring and has significantly damaged the goodwill the company deservedly had from its DC product line.
3. A perceived arrogance by MRC, first exhibited in their advertising, and more recently in their decision to not allow support of their system by 3rd party software like DecoderPro.
4. The fact that the systems are made in China.
The truth of the matter is that MRC may well be doing very well in the DCC control market and may well be taking market share away from the more traditional established leaders in the US. But, I think it is undeniable that MRC has a serious credibility and lack of respect from many, a situation that is largely self induced by MRC by its own actions.
Im a proud owner of a MRC Prodigy Squared DCC system. Let me say that I think that the Digitrax, Lenz, etc.etc systems are fine, but why doesnt the Prodigy Sq. system get any respect? I LOVE my system.
Pros. Everything. It is simple to use, have plenty of function buttons, and has worked without a hitch so far.
Cons. Can't adjust the throttle settings on two locos at a time..I think I'll live.
simon1966maxmanAnd again, I am beginning to find these which is better threads frustrating. Especially when there is a similar thread, or in this case at least two others, already in progress. I wonder if the posters are really looking for an answer, or just enjoy pulling the pin in a crowded room. Ain't that the truth half the time the OP never even comes back into the thread and we all prattle on for 8 or 9 pages. The bottom line is that the vast majority of modellers, especially those getting into DCC for the first time could pick any system, be up and running very quickly with the basics and be more than content with their choice. We are blessed with a market that is being addressed by well meaning, quality manufacturers. We also have to recognize that these are all small business', many of them family run business' that have all the quirks and foibles of small business. They are all running as hard as they can, doing the very best job that they can to meet and satisfy a widely distributed consumer market. Do they always get things right, well of course not, but we know that they have their customers at the heart of all they do, and will do anything to correct an error.
maxmanAnd again, I am beginning to find these which is better threads frustrating. Especially when there is a similar thread, or in this case at least two others, already in progress. I wonder if the posters are really looking for an answer, or just enjoy pulling the pin in a crowded room.
Ain't that the truth half the time the OP never even comes back into the thread and we all prattle on for 8 or 9 pages.
The bottom line is that the vast majority of modellers, especially those getting into DCC for the first time could pick any system, be up and running very quickly with the basics and be more than content with their choice.
We are blessed with a market that is being addressed by well meaning, quality manufacturers. We also have to recognize that these are all small business', many of them family run business' that have all the quirks and foibles of small business. They are all running as hard as they can, doing the very best job that they can to meet and satisfy a widely distributed consumer market. Do they always get things right, well of course not, but we know that they have their customers at the heart of all they do, and will do anything to correct an error.
rrinkerWHo says I really like the DT100?
WHo says I really like the DT100? I got it because it was cheap on eBay and at the time I didn;t have my DT400 back and I hate potentiometer throttles so the Zephyr console just doesn;t cut it. The DT100 isn't really as bad as people say for just selecting and running a loco. Programming, forget it. I won't be programming with the DT100. Dual encoder throttles, 4-digit accressing, and I got it for $30. Most of the ones on eBay end u going for close to the price of a DT400 and aren't worth it, after all these years I lucked out and got one at a reasonable price. What's wierd is I think because it had so few buttons, they used better quality ones than on the DT400 - real buttons instead of the rubber-dome membrane type. The encoders are rather stiff and don't click, nor can you press them to reverse, you have to use the direction button, but it's not a bad product.
simon1966We are blessed with a market that is being addressed by well meaning, quality manufacturers. We also have to recognize that these are all small business', many of them family run business' that have all the quirks and foibles of small business. They are all running as hard as they can, doing the very best job that they can to meet and satisfy a widely distributed consumer market. Do they always get things right, well of course not, but we know that they have their customers at the heart of all they do, and will do anything to correct an error.
Very well said Simon. Perhaps that paragraph could be the first response to all threads like this. As a user of the three major brands of systems I find that I like all three over the old block control DC we used to have. It is up to the end user on who's system is right for them and not us on the side lines. We don't know if he or she will need macros or signals or any other feature most of us don't even use. There are parts about the Lenz system I like over the others and the same can be said of the other systems. Is one better than the other? NO. Does each system do what its supposed to do? YES. Does the Lenz system have wireless throttles? NO. But add a CVP radio base and wireless throttles and you have a most excellent system. Every system can be tweaked and upgraded and added too to be anything capable of doing the job required.
My NCE system can be used to switch tracks. Do I use that feature? NO. My throttle is to run trains not track. If I wanted to run track I would have stayed DC. Signals are another feature. There are a multitude of stand alone signal systems. Most will work with any DCC system. I don't have to buy a system just because it has plug and pray signals.
Blessed we are. Lets not forget that.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
As of only a few weeks ago I was an NCE user so I think I can give my likes and dislikes for NCE. These are just the specific things applied to me as a solo operator:
1. Quick, easy programming and reviewing/adjusting cab and system parameters.
2. Very nice consisting tools for setup, adding, deleting and breakup. And, I especially like the "double ended" consist feature for running turns.
3. Macros for turnout control and routes.
4. Browsing feature for reviewing what consists are set up in the system.
5. Nice, bold lettered, backlit display.
6. Optional thumb wheel or push button speed control. I learned to really like the thumb wheel but used both methods frequently.
7. 7' cord on the Power Cab offers some mobility which is nice for small layouts.
8. Nice upgrade path for Power Cab using the SB3a, bumping power to 5 amps and 6 loco recalls.
9. Absolutely flawless radio control.
10. Terrific tech support by Larry at NCE.
1. Large hammerhead throttle with protruding antenna, buttons spaced over a large area and less than positive button pressing response. As a solo operator, I like to use the primary throttle so I can program and consist on the fly. I also have some arthritis in my fingers so don't like having to reach over large areas to press buttons. So, this large throttle was not something I wanted to use and carry around with me all the time.
Note: NCE is now producing their radio throttles with an internal antenna. Also, for group operators, NCE engineer's cabs are excellent.
2. Had some problems with the USB interface. Occasionally couldn't get connected to the computer although I suspect this was more my problem than the USB's.
simon1966You and I are on the same page.
Yes, I agree this is true. My issue really was that there have been many comments made, not necessarily in this particular thread, where the post responders have touted one particular system over the other because that system was "totally expandable", "would be needed if you ever want signalling", "never has any obsolete components", and other comments of that ilk, as if their favored system was the only one with that capability. In my minority opinion, such comments are either misrepresentations, or at the best just because the responders are misinformed. Being a trusting soul, I choose to believe that misinformed is the real answer.
My personal belief is that while one system may have "features" the other doesn't, this does not make it necessarily better. Sometimes a separate add-on to the original system will satisfy whatever the requirement is better than what the original system would have. You know. If you need to remove a screw the Swiss army knife will do the job. But the 4 HP Binford gas operated macho-driver with velcro strips for wrist attachment will do the job better.
Anyway, I don't have an issue with you as I think you are one of the more reasonable commenters on this particular subject. It was just that the "button" thing was the thing that pushed my button, if you will, having been mentioned in two separate threads. When I posted I needed to put something in the post that showed what I was responding to, and you just happened to be the one that got quoted.
And again, I am beginning to find these which is better threads frustrating. Especially when there is a similar thread, or in this case at least two others, already in progress. I wonder if the posters are really looking for an answer, or just enjoy pulling the pin in a crowded room.
Regards!!
Steam4Ever2I am fortunate to have a nice LHS in my town,
Kevin, in your sig is says you are from Louisville? I have to be there for a convention in a couple of months and always like to visit local hobby shops and it seems like you might have a good one that would be worth visiting, perhaps you can post some details so I can seek them out when in town.
Thanks
I have a Digitrax Super Chief on layaway at my LHS. Why this system? I am new to DCC and that is what the LHS recommended. They sell more Digitrax than any other system. More service and expertise appear to be available (By Shop Employees and other railroaders) to help me thru the learning curve. Those things are important to me. Another thing is that I know I could buy it a bit cheaper on line or mail order, but I am fortunate to have a nice LHS in my town, and I realize that "If you don't buy here, here may soon not be here". Just my opinion
Kevin
maxman simon1966Do you really think NCE would advertise their throttle as having "Only 30 buttons" and then in very small type "actually 34, but you don't have to use 4 of them" My issue is not the button count, nor whether or not they are needed. My issue is that the original post asked what you like and dislike about the system you have, not what do you like about your system and dislike about someone else's..........SNIP for Brevity..... So all I'm asking is that you recognize that we all have our own needs and preferences, and try to refrain from firing a shot across someone else's bow (unless directly provoked).
simon1966Do you really think NCE would advertise their throttle as having "Only 30 buttons" and then in very small type "actually 34, but you don't have to use 4 of them"
My issue is not the button count, nor whether or not they are needed. My issue is that the original post asked what you like and dislike about the system you have, not what do you like about your system and dislike about someone else's..........SNIP for Brevity.....
So all I'm asking is that you recognize that we all have our own needs and preferences, and try to refrain from firing a shot across someone else's bow (unless directly provoked).
Whoa there Maxman, did you actually read my post, the one immediately after the original question? You and I are on the same page. The only real shot across the bows from anyone was one poster saying that they liked one throttle because it had fewer buttons than another brand. Not exactly a damning indictment of the NCE system I think?
Besides if low button count were the ultimate feature we would all be using Digitrax DT100 throttles, which IMO is one of the worst throttle designs to ever grace the DCC market. It is my belief that the DT100 is almost totally responsible for the enduring belief that Digitrax systems are hard to use.
Of course there are odd folks like Randy, who really like the DT100 but since he is in the minority here, he gets the benefit of being able to get then cheap!!
The original intent of this thread was to give your specific likes and dislikes for the system you are using. I don't think it was meant to be a poll for what system everyone is using. Just saying "I use such and such and really like it" is not of much value to anyone.
I find it most interesting, and helpful, when posters give specific details related to their likes and dislikes.
I started with a Digitrax Big Boy in 1996. Now own an Empire Builder and Zephyr. I also set up and maintain club's Super Chief based equipment.
#1 is it is the lowest cost system on the market that will do everything that I need it to. #2 is, which really goes hand-in-hand with #1, is it is, in my opinion, the most capapble "entry-level"system on the market.
Loconet and the accessories available for it.
Dual throttle design of DT series of throttles.
Jump ports.
While I think Digitrax's manuals are for the most part fine, I do wish they woudl document EVERYTHING. It is pretty well known now that the Zephyr has a "Blast mode" programming mode, which is not documented by Digitrax anywhere that I know of. Also, what differences are there between the Zephyr's software versions?
When doing OPS mode programming form the Zephyr's throttle, it does not write all three required CV's(it does when programming on the program track or when using a DT series throttle or PC based throttle in OPS mode).
I can probably think of more, but I've got to go so that's it for now.
haven't read all the posts, but we must be at the my choice of system is better than yours stage by now??
anyways, digitrax for me folks
I use the NCE Power Cab. It's a great unit and has performed flawlessly.
Easy to use. Durable. Nice LCD screen. Excellent layout of the buttons.
Nothing product wise, just wish I had purchased it sooner. I've owned mine for over a year now.
Will
CSX RobertAnd what would that be?
See post directly above yours.
maxman...Because of all the great features that the Digitrax system has, there was one thing (that everyone else here would not need) that it couldn't do...
I,ve had DCC since 1993 when I started with the Lenz system. Used that for 3 years until I ran out of system capacity ( at that time ) and wanted to go to 4 digit address's. Looked at System 1 and Digitrax. At that time the Digitrax handset standard was the DT-100. A more user unfreindly handset I have never seen. Went with System 1 . As System 1 slowly ceased business I switched over to NCE which was fully compatable. I stayed with NCE until 2004 when the radio system that NCE introduced had lots of problems and the DT-400 and UT-4 came out. I switched to Digitrax. I was with Digitrax until last year when I found out about a system limitation that I kept running up against. It will only effect those who have large loco rosters especially those with multi units diesel consists. After talking with the owners a number of times I decided to again look at NCE. The radio problems of the past were fixed. I like their method of advanced consisting much better than Digitrax's and NCE has far more capacity for locomotives in active service than Digitrax. So last year I switched back. Have had far less problems with system than Digitrax when dealing with op sessions . My op crew is 25-33 people and we normally have about 25-30 handsets in service.
Both systems will please most people and both companies have good service. The NCE system does what I want it to do with fewer problems and the capacity issue does not exist so I like my NCE best. Your opinion may vary. ---- Ken McCorry
Phoebe Vet I did indeed miss that post.
I did indeed miss that post.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/170239/1868679.aspx#1868679
Alton Junction
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet richhotrain I like my NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system because the throttle floats in the bathub, and I don't think that those crappy other systems can claim that. Rich Now that's an image I didn't need. Do you run your trains from the bathtub often?
richhotrain I like my NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system because the throttle floats in the bathub, and I don't think that those crappy other systems can claim that. Rich
I like my NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system because the throttle floats in the bathub, and I don't think that those crappy other systems can claim that.
Rich
Now that's an image I didn't need.
Do you run your trains from the bathtub often?
Phoebe,
You apparently missed my April Fool post on Bathtub Layouts.
I tried, but then my iphone slipped and I ruined it. (reference the WiThrottle app that works with JMRI and any DCC system with a supported computer interface (sorry, MRC)).
Not really on the bathtub part, but if you have an iPhone or iPod Touch and use JMRI with your DCC system, check out WiThrottle. Since you already have all the other stuff, it's basically a free wireless throttle for your system (there's a free Lite version of the app that has a few limits, plus a full featured version). It does NOT us your airtime minutes or data transfer it connects via your wireless router.
As for using the throttles, I tend to hold my DT400 down at my side and use my thumb to control speed. A double click on the knob changes direction, so that leaves my right hand free to operate coupler picks and so forth.
---Randy