Jerry,
Do you really mean DS44's? Those are for stall motor's only and they do not have a loconet connection. They get commands and power only through their red and black track connections.
Martin Myers
A point of clarification for me:
Initially I want to operate just 9 of my twin-coil switch machines only from my NCE throttle, either individually or via routes using the NCE macros.
Could I do this with (3) DS44 connected together with (2) Loconet cables, and including a PS14 power supply, and with only one of the DS44 connected to the track?
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
rrinker LS150's are probably the cheapest decoders for solenoid machines. They don't do very well with Tortoises because they cut off power after a certain amount of time. And as I discovered helping a friend install them on his layout, if you set it so it delivers power for 5 seconds, during that 5 seconds it will NOT accept another switch command. So: Stall motors, NCE Switch-It or Switch-8 (Switch-It allows connection of pushbuttons so you can operate fromt he panel or fascia instead of trying to dial up switch addresses on the throttle) Solenoid machines, like Atlas and Peco: Lenz LS150.
LS150's are probably the cheapest decoders for solenoid machines. They don't do very well with Tortoises because they cut off power after a certain amount of time. And as I discovered helping a friend install them on his layout, if you set it so it delivers power for 5 seconds, during that 5 seconds it will NOT accept another switch command.
So: Stall motors, NCE Switch-It or Switch-8 (Switch-It allows connection of pushbuttons so you can operate fromt he panel or fascia instead of trying to dial up switch addresses on the throttle)
Solenoid machines, like Atlas and Peco: Lenz LS150.
i think they are cheapest cos they don't have a built in CDU for twin coil machines!! if you have some turnouts that are 'sticky' without a CDU you could have some issues. with stall motors what you can do with the 150's is try and make sure a route doesn't have more than 2 turnouts connected to any one LS150. it may mean a few longer wires in places but careful planning could help the slowness aspect if using stall motors..
Thanks for all the feedback!!
OK, so it sounds like it will be easier to just control the DS64s with the NCE throttle and maybe the NCE Mini Panel mounted on the fascia.
And I can throw switches spanning multiple DS64s, sweet!!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Why not? That's the whole reason there is a DCC standard. I use NCE Switch-Its with my Digitrax system. I also use home built accessory decoders and servo controllers from Tam Valley. What about decoders? Do you only use decoders made by your system manufacturer? I don't use ANY Digitrax decoders, I find TCS to be superior and NCE decoders are great for basic non-BEMF decoders - at $12 each you can't beat them.
Lots of people prefer the NCE controller but realize the Digitrax Loconet is a superior bus for detection and signalling, and so combine both systems. The additional cool thing about Loconet is there are devices made by many manufacturers besides Digitrax that work with Loconet - Team Digital, CML, RR-Cirkits and others all make certified Loconet devices, so you're not limited to just the things Digitrax makes.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching. I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece. Failing that, I would have taken everything back and bought a new total system in the brand of your choice.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
When I was running NCE wireless I just used Lenz LS150 turnout controllers (each one will control up to 6 turnouts). All routes were just controlled with the NCE throttle with no computer connection needed. The LS150s do require a separate power supply and I just used an old DC power pack for that.
The serial connection from NCE to the computer would just be needed to run JMRI for programming locos.
For one wanting to use the throttle for turnout control, this seems to be the simplest setup. I assume that DS64s could be used instead of the LS150s but the 150s would be more economical.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
You do not need any loconet connections or a Locobuffer if you use NCE Macros. The computer would not have to be on.
If you DO hook up a Locobuffer and Loconet to the DS64's, you need to power them from the aux power, not the track - if powered from the track they see 2 command stations and get confused. They see the NCE via the track, and the Digitrax via the Locobuffer. In this case the computer would have to be on because the only way to control the turnouts would be via a JMRI PanelPro panel. This gets into what I alluded to in the first post after Silver Pilot said to ditch Digitrax - you can press buttons all day on the NCE throttle and the computer will never see what you are doing. It won't know you are telling a certain turnout to throw, and then be able to act on that information (like by then sending a signal on the Loconet to operate the DS64s). What you CAN do it buy the NCE Macro Panel and use buttons on your control panel or fascia to activate macros that control whichever turnouts you need - the DS64 will respond to standard DCC accessory decoder commands issued on the track bus from the NCE system. No Loconet connections needed, no computer needed. If all your turnouts are controlled by stall motor machines like the Tortoise, it might be oire cost effective to return the DS64s and get NCE Switch-Its or Switch-8's - cheaper and simpler on a per turnout basis because they ONLY work with stall motors and they don't provide all the other options of the DS64 like crossing gate control.
OK I'm trying to wrap my head around this.
So there will be two USB connections to the PC.1.) USB-Serial to PHP2.) Loco-buffer USB PC to the DS64s
Then the DS64s daisychained with loconet cables connecting to the Loco-buffer?
PC can know talk to the DS64s on loconet.
The run JMRI software, create the routes that can now control let's say 6 turn-outs all at once. Then how does the NCE Cab control/trigger those routes created in JMRI? with Macros?
With all this setup, do I have to have the PC on while running the layout using the NCE Cab throttle?
Motley I think I'll go with the Loco-buffer USB solution with JMRI software. Can I also use this to program the locos too?
I think I'll go with the Loco-buffer USB solution with JMRI software. Can I also use this to program the locos too?
You don't need a loco-buffer to connect the PHP to your computer that has JMRI. If your computer has a serial port then all you need is a serial cable. If the PC doesn't have a serial port then you'll also need a USB to serial converter. There is no additional hardware needed to connect your PHP to your PC. Yes, you can use it to also program locos.
Long answer - yes, that's what the OTHER serial cable is for - to connect the computer to the NCE. The programming is not done through the Locobuffer, that's for talking to Digitrax command stations (or other Loconet devices). The connection to the NCE command station allows you to use the computer to program through the NCE system.
To just use NCE to do the routes, look up the section on creating 'macros' in the NCE manual. That will allow you to send a string of turnout control commands on the track bus with a single command. You wouldn;t need any connection to the DS64 other than to the track power for that to work.
MotleyI think I'll go with the Loco-buffer USB solution with JMRI software. Can I also use this to program the locos too?
Short answer is no. You should get the cable that connects your NCE system to the computer to program locos.
Locobuffer will only allow you to connect the computer to those DS64's.
BTW, those DS64's can be connected together but for them to share routes you would also need to add termination to them. That can be assembled with a couple of parts from Radio Shack.
Best advice is to join both the NCE and Digitrax Yahoo groups. You will recognize the same knowledgable faces from here as well as others. There is one gentleman that has already installed a dual system like the one you are installing. There is also a wealth of information that is store in the files and photos sections of those (and other) groups.
OK awesome, sounds like I can get routes to work either way. I would prefer to just use the NCE throttle to trigger the routes. Is there anything else I need to do this, and is it easy to setup?
I would also like to use the JMRI software to program the locos, so I'll need the USB Serial connection. Or do I use the JMRI software to program the routes as well, and trigger them with the NCE throttle?
I'm sure glad all you guys well experienced with all this stuff, I would be lost in the forest. LOL
Internal routes in a single DS64 will work without the Loconet, but if you need to include a turnout controlled by the second DS64 then you need a loconet connection. If you want really cool, get a Locobuffer-USB from RR-CirKits, and also a serial cable. The Locobuffer-USB connect to the DS64's, the serial cable connects to the NCE command station. Download the free JMRI software. Now you can program without any controller gymnastics, and set up virtual control panels to operate the turnouts, and other goodies.
OK, well the new system at least works. But I can't figure out how to hook up the wireless box, there were no connection startup guide for the wireless.
Also, so if I want to control more that 4 switches with a route, I can't do that? How would that work? Should I return the DS64s and get NCE stationary decoders?
I have PECO turnouts with PECO switch machines. I want to use the route control.
Would it be better to keep the DS64s and get the BDL168 block detector to crate the loconet bus?
Of course you do need Loconet if you want to allow the DS64s to run routes that include other DS64s.
No real need to connect the DS64's together at the Loconet cables. It won't do anything without a Loconet 'master' on the bus, normally the command station but a BDL168 block detector can also be Loconet master. as can various versions of the Locobuffer PC interface. Connecting them to track power will allow the commands to get to them from the NCE command station.
MotleyMartin,OMG, I was told by the guys at the store that I could use those cables, ***, good thing you warned me. WOW!
Martin,
OMG, I was told by the guys at the store that I could use those cables, ***, good thing you warned me. WOW!
You can use the cables, they are just 6 wires and jacks. Just don't connect the Digitrax items to NCE items.
OK, so can you be more specific the connections. The track power connectors on the NCE booster will go to to my track bus wires, AND also to the DS64s? Where on the DS64s exactly?
Yes. They connect to the DS64 terminals appropriately marked Track A and Track B. It's in the manual.
Edit: And I can still use the loconet cables to daisychain only the DS64s together?
Yes, you can connect the DS64's together with the cables.
mfm37 It will all work with your NCE system but DO NOT plug those "loconet" cables into both the NCE jacks and the DS64 jacks. NCE and Digitrax use different configuration on their jacks even though the cables are exactly the same. Leave the DS64 jacks disconnected from any NCE jacks. Damage will most surely result. Those DS64's will be connected to the track power outputs of the NCE booster and get all of their switch commands through that track power connection.Martin Myers
It will all work with your NCE system but DO NOT plug those "loconet" cables into both the NCE jacks and the DS64 jacks. NCE and Digitrax use different configuration on their jacks even though the cables are exactly the same. Leave the DS64 jacks disconnected from any NCE jacks. Damage will most surely result. Those DS64's will be connected to the track power outputs of the NCE booster and get all of their switch commands through that track power connection.
Motley,
The stationary decoders should work fine but I'm not sure about the cabling. Randy, is the Loconet cable also RG12?
I do have a Digitrax PS315 wall transformer powering my NCE Smart Booster. All I had to do was to clip the stereo(?) jack off the end of it then split and deinsulate the wires. Has worked great.
Do keep us posted how you like your Power Pro, Motley. Although not radio, I've been very happy with my Power Cab/Smart Booster combination.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The guys at the store told me that everything else that I got yesterday, the Digitrax DS64s stationary decoders, the loconet cables, wiring, power supply, everything should work with the NCE system.
Someone please tell me if this is not the case.
As I posted, I have NCE, converted from Dynatrol in 1999 to NCE, have upgraded a couple of times and am very happy with NCE. I use wireless and tethered cabs together. I also have four boosters for power districts. Worst thing that ever happened was I got one booster out of phase with the others and had an instant short as a train passed over the boundaries from one to the other. Got that one figured out and no more problems.
Good luck, but remember, nothing in this world is perfect.
Bob
I just got back from the store, and of course they didn't have any more units to replace it with. So... from there recommendations, I exchanged it for an NCE Power House Pro wireless system.
It's unfortunate that I got a defective system, but there was no way I was going to wait 2 weeks for Digitrax to replace mine that I just spent all kinds of cash on.
So I just hope this NCE works, geeeeez I'm all stressed out now.
I'll let you know tonight when I fire up the NCE system.
Caboose Hobbies treated me well, there were very apologetic about the ordeal.
I just got off the phone with Digitrax support, and they concluded it's bad as well. It might just be the throttle, because when I plug in the throttle without a battery there is no display.
They said to take it back to the LHS. I sure hope they have another one to swap out for me, yesterday when I got this I didn't see any more of these units. If that's the case, then Digitrax said they will ship me a new one.
I'll let y'all know what happens...
Nothing in your post indicates whether or not you used the throttle to turn the track power on.
I would call Digitrax before I took it back.
I have the Super Chief Duplex and I love it.