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Brand new Digitrax system and it's defective!

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Posted by Renegade1c on Monday, March 1, 2010 3:19 PM

I have a digitrax system with a Locobuffer USB. I have my DS-64's powered up using the Aux inputs. I have a 14 gauge 12-volt bus around the layout  that I use to power lights as well as the DS-64's.

 

The 12-volt bus is powered by a very old (1994) computer power supply. If you do decide to use a computer power supply remember that the power supply requires a load in order to work properly. a 10 ohm 10-20 watt resistor on the 5 volt line will do just fine (The resistor will get warm!). I currently have 6 DS-64's and 12 tortoises (not attached to the DS-64's)  powered off of this bus wire with no problems what-so-ever.

 


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:47 PM

The cross-overs work!!! omg I'm happy again (after frying my loco). I have the cross-over turnouts connected to one port on the DS64s now!!

Man these PECO switch machines are quiet, I thought they would be louder. I have the PL10W for digital and they are smooth as butter.

Now I'm off to figure out how to re-program the switch IDs...

Michael


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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:19 AM

rrinker

 I test run DC locos using address 00 on my Digitrax equipment - haven't damaged anything yet.

NEVER leave an analog loco sit on the DCC track without having it moving.

                                        --Randy

 

Ditto!!!!!!!

Dave

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Posted by simon1966 on Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:54 AM

Too bad about the fried loco. 

I did not ask before, but assuming you did some research into your initial selection of DCC system, what were the features that led you to choose Digitrax in the first place?

The ability to run a DC loco on Digitrax is one such feature that NCE does not offer.  I can't say it was a critical feature for me when I chose Digitrax, but it has been a feature that I do use periodically and found to be quite useful.

Bottom line is that both Digitrax and NCE make superb systems, but they are not identical.  There may well be other features that were important in your initial selection that will not be fulfilled by the NCE system? 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:49 AM

 Actually NCE DID used to have the capability to run an analog loco. You had to build your own throttle and it connected to the serial port on the front of the command station. That feature was taken out several firmware revisions ago.

 I test run DC locos using address 00 onmy Digitrax equipment - haven't damaged anything yet but I also just run it back and forth a few times on my test track to make sure it works. NEVER leave an analog loco sit on the DCC track without having it moving.

                                        --Randy

 


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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:03 AM

mfm37
Make me suspect the title of this thread.

Nothing misleading about the title. He bought a Digitrax system and it didn't work.

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Posted by mfm37 on Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:44 AM

That's unfortunate. Funny electrical noises should be investigated immediately. NCE never built that capability into their systems because of the risks of running analog engines on DCC.

Make me suspect the title of this thread.

Martin Myers

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Posted by Motley on Friday, February 26, 2010 10:38 PM

Ahhhhh crap!! I think I fried my Athearn SD45 non-DCC loco. I didn't know I could not run it with the NCE system. When I placed the loco on the track, it made a whirring sound, had it on there for about two minutes.

Now when I hooked up my DC to the track, my loco is dead. It actually moved a little bit with 100% throttle, and now it's completely dead.

Did I kill it?

Michael


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Posted by Stevert on Friday, February 26, 2010 8:36 PM

jwils1

Steve,

Thanks.  I didn't understand the daisy chain cable when I first looked at it.  That does look like an easy way to share the power.

 

Yup, my kid was adding yet another effect to his pedal board and was using one of those cables.  I saw it and said, "Hmm, let me take a look at that for a minute..."

Just be careful about using an effects-pedal power supply.  ISTR the one he needed was only 9v and center negative.

Steve  

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Posted by jwils1 on Friday, February 26, 2010 3:55 PM

Steve,

Thanks.  I didn't understand the daisy chain cable when I first looked at it.  That does look like an easy way to share the power.

Jerry

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Posted by Stevert on Friday, February 26, 2010 3:27 PM

jwils1

Stevert

 I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals.  Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure.  My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix. 

  Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's   So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way.

For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go.  Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...Steve

Option Switch 08 is recommended to be closed when using multiple track-powered DS64's.  This delays the power up of the units.  I wonder if that has caused problems for some.

You can still add a PS14 in a non-loconet system.  I just wish there was a way to share the PS14 between several units.  One per DS64 seems a bit much.

 

The reason for closing OPSW 8 is to avoid an excessive inrush when powering up the rails.  In other words, to avoid the "sound decoder problem" that looks like a short and causes your circuit breakers to cycle.  That shouldn't cause memory problems, although I guess anything's possible.

And if you want to power multiple DS64's from a single power supply, go right ahead as long as the total current draw doesn't exceed the power supply's rating.  Look at my first post in this thread to see how I'm (easily) doing it.

Steve 

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Posted by jwils1 on Friday, February 26, 2010 2:57 PM

Motley
I just hooked my first DS64 I have with track power it works just fine!!!

OMG, I just threw my first switch with the NCE throttle, AND IT WORKED!!

LOL.. I'm all excited now... Next test is connecting two switches, the cross-over to the single output of the DS64.  Will report back later.

That's great.  Sounds like you're having some fun.  Are you going to try them all track-powered or do you plan to use the PS14's?

Jerry

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Posted by jwils1 on Friday, February 26, 2010 2:54 PM

Stevert

 I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals.  Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure.  My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix. 

  Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's   So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way.

For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go.  Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...Steve

Option Switch 08 is recommended to be closed when using multiple track-powered DS64's.  This delays the power up of the units.  I wonder if that has caused problems for some.

You can still add a PS14 in a non-loconet system.  I just wish there was a way to share the PS14 between several units.  One per DS64 seems a bit much.

Jerry

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Posted by Motley on Friday, February 26, 2010 2:06 PM

I just hooked my first DS64 I have with track power it works just fine!!!

OMG, I just threw my first switch with the NCE throttle, AND IT WORKED!!

LOL.. I'm all excited now... Next test is connecting two switches, the cross-over to the single output of the DS64.  Will report back later.

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Friday, February 26, 2010 1:40 PM

 We're getting mixed up here between peopel using DS64's with Digitrax systems, and peopel usign DS64's with other DCC systems.

 With Digitrax - do NOT connect track power, DO connect a PS14 or some for of aux power. How much you need depends on the switch motors you are driving - runnign Tortoises you can easily power more than one DS64 froma  single PS14. Driving solenoid machines you need enough power to recharge the internal CD supply in a  timely fashion.

 Using other systems: Track power is the only way you can do it, because the track connection is the only way for the DCC commands to get to the DS64  This does expose you to the same issue Digitrax users sometimes have when connectign DS64's to track power - track power isn't as smooth as a dedicated power supply, and it seems the memory in the DS64 is a bit touchy when the power supply isn't 'clean'. WHat hapens is the configuration sometimes gets scrambled. Don't panic - it's actually a very small percentage of people have this problem, so it could very well depend on how far along the bus fromt eh booster the DS64's connect. I woudl strngly recommend using circuit breakers to make multiple power districts and put the DS64s on their own so a short on the track won't also shut down the DS64.

 The other option for non-Digitrax users is to build a standalone Loconet (no Digitrax command station), however your only option for then controlling the turnouts would be via computer or else with local pushbuttons connected to the DS64 inputs. If you do that then it's kind of pointless having the DS64s, you could just have pushbuttons and no decoder, unless you were implementing a dispatcher control panel on the computer and didn;t need local control of the turnouts. 

 I'll give the example again - this is something ONLY Loconet can do. All the popular DCC systems have a computer interface, and all of them except MRC work with JMRI and as far as I know, RR&Co also supports all systems. However, only Loconet works like this: If I create a computer panel with a control that operates a turnout via a DS64 or really ANY stationary decoder (Lenz LS-150, NCE Switch-It, etc), I can operate the turnotu via the computer OR by dialing up the address on the throttle (so far, this works liek this with any system). However, if I do this from anything but a Loconet system, and operate the turnout fromt he throttle, the 'knob' on the computer panel will not move, and will not be in sync with the actual position of the turnout. With Loconet though, when I oeprate the turnout through the throttle, the computer panel will change as well - because with Loconet, an interface device plugged in to the Loconet can 'see' the data that comes from any throttle. With the other systems, the interface acts like a throttle and can GENERATE any required command (for programming, running a loco, or operating an accessory) but is not capable of seeing the commands that come from another throttle. 

                                                 --Randy

 


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Posted by Stevert on Friday, February 26, 2010 12:57 PM

 I've heard more than a few stories about DS64's acting up when using track power via the Track A&B terminals.  Switching to an external power supply seems to be the universal cure.  My guess is that it's caused by voltage spikes and the same ringing on the track bus that "terminators" are supposed to fix. 

  Plus, if your track is shut down, so are your DS64's   So if someone runs up against a turnout thrown against them and shorts that power district, you can't correct it by just throwing the turnout the right way.

  For that reason, I think an external power supply is the way to go.  Unfortunately, if you're not using Loconet, you don't have that choice...

Steve

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Friday, February 26, 2010 11:44 AM

I have a Digitrax Super Chief.  I have 8 DS64s.  While it is not my intention to do it forever, at the present time they are all powered from the Track A&B terminals.  They work fine.  Because I also have them connected by Loconet, they communicate with each other as well.

The only PS14s I have are connected to the PR3 and the UR92.

Dave

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Posted by Motley on Friday, February 26, 2010 11:26 AM

OK I am way confused here.

Randy tells me that the DS64s need a PS14 to power them AND also need to connect the DS64 using the TRACK A and TRACK B connections right?

So please confirm what exactly I need to wire up?

 

Edit: I just called Digitrax support as well, and indeed I do NOT have to use the PS14 power supplies when using the DS64s track connections.

I have brain damage now... good lord.

Michael


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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Friday, February 26, 2010 11:05 AM

Since you have chosen to give up Loconet, you have to power your DS64s from track power.  That is the only way your command station will be able to send switch commands to them.  Of course without Loconet, the DS64s will be unable to send commands to other components.  The PS14s would, therefor seem to be superfluous.

Dave

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Posted by jwils1 on Friday, February 26, 2010 10:56 AM

jwils1

Motley
Ya I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches.

Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s?

Wow....(7) PS14 sounds like power overkill to me.  I powered (5) Lenz LS150 with one small DC power pack.  Is there any way to reduce the number of PS14?  I'm talking about a non-Loconet installation.

I just talked to Digitrax and they said I could just run (3) DS64 of off track power.  I think I will give that a try and see how it works.  Of course I'm not using Loconet (but I sure wish I was....and I really miss my DT402D!)

Jerry

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Posted by Stevert on Friday, February 26, 2010 10:40 AM

mfm37

 ***, by the time we get done discussing all of this, that replacement DCS100 would have been in.

Martin Myers

 
TA462

Phoebe Vet

I'm not a fan of all this mixing and matching.  I would have waited for the replacement Digitrax piece. 

That's what I would have done as well.

 

Yeah, no kidding! 

I would have waited, too, especially when you consider all that that LocoNet brings to the table. 

I'm in the process now of setting up my yard throat/engine servicing facility/caboose tracks using four DS64's and Tortii.  When I'm done, I'll be able to align all the turnouts from the mainline to a yard track by pushing a single button on a small control panel, or by sending a single switch command from my DT4* throttles, or by clicking on that yard track on my JMRI panel on the computer.

That'll all be accomplished by using the DS64's routes and inputs, combined with LocoNet communications to tie everything together.  No muss, no fuss, you just plug it in and it works!

Oh, and to address the power supply issue:

Each DS64 draws a max of 300ma, but I'd have to think that's while recharging the internal CD unit for solenoid machines.  So even with four Tortii (15 ma each) active at once, I'll probably be drawing significantly less.  Therefore, my plan is to run the four DS64's in the yard throat area off of a single, 1 amp PS14-type supply using something similar to this, with OPSW 9 closed on my DS64's.  Once it's up and running, I'll monitor the current draw.  If it's too much for that supply, I have another 3 amp supply I can substitute.  But I really think that would be overkill...

Steve 

 

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Posted by jwils1 on Friday, February 26, 2010 8:58 AM

Motley
Ya I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches.

Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s?

Wow....(7) PS14 sounds like power overkill to me.  I powered (5) Lenz LS150 with one small DC power pack.  Is there any way to reduce the number of PS14?  I'm talking about a non-Loconet installation.

Jerry

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Posted by mfm37 on Friday, February 26, 2010 3:28 AM

 They work on my N scale crossovers. Far as I know the same PL10 motor is used on HO. Just hook one up and try it.

***, by the time we get done discussing all of this, that replacement DCS100 would have been in.

Martin Myers

 

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:43 PM

Ah really? That will save me money! Plus it's easier to not have to program the routes for the cross-overs.

So to make sure, I have the PECO switch machines, I was told that they take more power because the PECO switches are designed.

Please confirm, I'm about ready to start wiring up like 2 of the DS64s.

Thanks!

Michael


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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:39 PM

The DS64 quite easily throws two turnouts at once from one output.  I have 3 of them doing just that.

Dave

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:22 PM

 You need EITHER a PS14 or a 12-14V DC power supply to connect to the AUX+/- terminals. The PS14 plugs right in to the socket next to the Loconet connections. Alsom, if you have crossovers, they CLAIM the DS64 output can drive 2 twin coil switch motors, so maybe you can free up an output or two.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:47 PM

Ya I have the PECO switch machines and I have a PS14 for each DS64, I will have like a total of (7) DS64s to control a total of 28 PECO switches.

Randy, do I need the Aux power? Or do I just use the PS14s?

Michael


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Posted by jwils1 on Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:45 PM

Thanks Randy.  Yes, I meant DS64.  So, for me, it looks like (3) DS64 and (3) PS14 would do the job.  Or, I could use (2) Lenz LS150 and one old DC power pack with AC accessory power available.  This might be better as I would only need to use one electrical outlet for the power supply.

Jerry

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:28 PM

 I assume you mean DS64? The DS44 is a basic stationary decoder for Tortoises.

THEORETICALLY this would work, however if the ONLY source of routes in NCE macros, there is no need to make the Loconet connections. You'd also need soemthign to provde Loconet 'termination' since the DS64 can't do this. It's really just a current source, you could build one, or else you'd have to use a Loconet device in the chain that can, like the BDL-168 block detector. The only reason you'd need a Loconet connection would be if you wanted to program routes int eh DS64 that included turnouts connected to a different DS64 - if you do all the routes via NCE Macros then just connect each DS64 to the track and assign addresses. The Macro can operate turnouts on any combination of stationary controllers, so for example Macro A could operate the turnotu on port 1 of DS64 #1, the turnouts on ports 3 and 4 of DS64 #2, and the turnout on port 2 of DS64 #3, all at once.

 I believe you also need the aux power to utilize the capacitor discharge supply built in to the DS64. With twin coil motors I'd also think one PS14 per DS64 rather than try to share.

                                                    --Randy

 

           


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Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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