Norfolk & Western

[ArcadeAttica]

Hey does anyone know if NW ran any low nose geeps, alcos, whatever? I noticed Athearn has GP 38s and SDs with the lose nose style. I've never seen any photos of the prototype with the low nose, nor any of the railroads that it merged with. So, I'm asking if Athearn took some creative liberties, or if there is some truth to it?


On another note, what color blue did NW use on its engines?
Thanks, Mike[C):-)]

[tomikawaTT]

When the N&W converted from steam, their new locos were all operated long hood forward, the idea being that, like a steamer's boiler, the prime mover would protect the cab crew from whatever misadventure was happening around the front coupler. I do not know when they took delivery of their first low-nose unit.

There is an active N&W Historical Society which probably has that information.

[Morpar]

I have photos that show that there were low nose C30-7s and SD40-2 running around in N&W paint in the mid 80's. Here are some links:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118854
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118858
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=118853
The last link just has a small bit of a low hood on the left side of the photo, but it does prove that they were using low hood locos back then.

Can't help on the blue question, I only remember seeing a few units on the dark blue, but they were so dirty it was hard to tell what the original color was. It did appear to be a very dark blue, but I really don't know what to compare it to. Most of the time it was difficult telling if a unit was black or blue until you were pretty close. Good luck!

[ArcadeAttica]

Thanks
This'll definately expand my loco roster, since most companies dont build engines in the high nose style (at least not in N scale).

yeah, the blue appears to be a dark, royal blue. but i was ust hoping that a company made Norfolk Blue or something like that.

They also painted a couple of their C30-7s a (i think) caboose red. can anyone confirm this? they seem to match the color of their cabooses.
Mike

[SSW9389]

The 1964 merger brought low nose RS36s, a C420, GP30s and a GP35 from Nickel Plate and low nose C424s, U25Bs and GP35s from Wabash. I don't think there were any more low noses purchased until the early 1970s with the SD40-2s and C30-7s as mentioned above.

[Anonymous]

N&W's purchase of outstanding shares of the Illinois Terminal in 1981 brought 4 low nose GP38-2's to their roster. They became N&W 4160-4163.

All of N&W's U30C's, C30-7's & C36-7's were purchased new with low short hoods. Some SD40-2's in the 1600's and all SD40-2's in the 6100's & 6200's came new with low short hoods.

[BigJim]

QUOTE: They also painted a couple of their C30-7s a (i think) caboose red. can anyone confirm this? they seem to match the color of their cabooses.

No it wasn't a caboose red! They did paint some GE's and EMD's the same tuscan-like red as the passenger cars.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigJim

QUOTE: They also painted a couple of their C30-7s a (i think) caboose red. can anyone confirm this? they seem to match the color of their cabooses.

No it wasn't a caboose red! They did paint some GE's and EMD's the same tuscan-like red as the passenger cars.

One SD40-2 and five C30-7's came from their respective factories in tuscan paint with gold lettering.

[Philcal]

Norfolk &Western, and later merger partner, Southern Railway, were noted for their high short hood units. Many of these are still in service today. I can't be specific, but I understand that several former high short hood units have been converted to short hoods as part of over hauls performed at the former Pennsy Juniata Shops. No doubt, Athearn , and I know for certain, Walthers have taken some liberties with the short hood units. I have one of the Walthers units, a GP-9. Good little switcher though.

[Anonymous]

I believe the blue is close to C&O enchantment blue since that was the partner NW was talking to about merger before PC bankruptcy killed the idea.Dan

[Anonymous]

this is norfolkman61, on the go.
got a slight query?
how many j 4-8-4'S did the n & w own.
i make 14, could be wrong though.
information this side of the pond is scarce.
i look forward to hearing from someone.!!!

[BigJim]

That's right. 14 of 'em. 600 thru 613.

[Anonymous]

many thanks for the info, big jim.
all i need now is the running numbers, to the y6b's.
rod.

[Anonymous]

can anyone tell me, what is the didfference between a highnose, and a shortnose?
being a brit i am confused.
rod

[BigJim]

Rod,
Here is a run down from Richard Prince's book;
Y5 - 2101 - 2119*
Y6 - 2120 to 2154
Y6a - 2155 to 2170
Y6b - 2171 to 2200**
* Note that in the early 50's, 19 Y5's were rebuilt to Y6 standands (one Y5 had been destroyed in a wreck and not rebuilt) This brought the entire 2100 series of engines up to modern standards.
** Note that in the early 50's the N&W invented their own type of booster valve for the 2100's. The resulting increase in power required that their front frames be filled with lead for increased traction. Tonnage ratings were increased by 200 to 600 tons. The N&W now refered to them as "Improved" Y5 and "Improved" Y6 class and they, the 2100's, were all rated the same.

Highnose = high short hood end / to top of body
Short or Lownose = low short hood end / body low enough for a window where the high hood used to be.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by norfolkman61

can anyone tell me, what is the didfference between a highnose, and a shortnose?
being a brit i am confused.
rod

Shortnose (or short hood, or low nose.....the low hood in front of the cab):
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=29107
Highnose (or high short hood):
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=118827

[Anonymous]

many thanks big jim, it sure helped a lot.
wish we could buy books, on our favourite railroad in britain.
no such luck though.
as regards the hoods, i am now a little wiser.
take care jim,
rod

[Anonymous]

thanks bwilcox, those pics are fantastic.
did the sd40-2's keep their running numbers when the merger with the southern took place.
rod.

[BigJim]

QUOTE: did the sd40-2's keep their running numbers when the merger with the southern took place.

As far as I know all of the road units kept their number after the Southern merger. There may have been some change to smaller or yard engines, but I don't really keep up with them that close. The hump slugs numbers did change somewhere along the line, usually losing the first "9" of their number.
Numbers changed on some CR units after that merger.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by norfolkman61

thanks bwilcox, those pics are fantastic.
did the sd40-2's keep their running numbers when the merger with the southern took place.
rod.

As BigJim said, N&W and Southern SD40-2's were not renumbered after the NS merger. Former Conrail SD40-2's were numbered in the 3300 & 3400 series after the former Southern locomotives.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

A few of the SD40-2's have been demoted to hump service with a slug attached to the nose, but they have not been renumbered, quite unlike CSX or UP.

[wjstix]

I seem to remember that back in the eighties either N&W or Southern ordered some low-nose diesels...but continued to run them long-nose forward. Apparently their rationale was that the low hood in the rear allowed better visibility for switching and for keeping an eye back on the train.

[Anonymous]

Most of N&W's SD40-2's and all of the U30C's, C30-7's & C36-7's were ordered with low short hoods. I suspect cost was the issue. With only them and Southern buying high short hoods, EMD viewed this as an extra cost option, with the emphasis on EXTRA. Oddly enough, although photos of the SD's running long hood first are fairly common, I can't recall ever seeing a photo of the GE's running long hood first.

[BigJim]

QUOTE: I can't recall ever seeing a photo of the GE's running long hood first.

OH, but they did!!! And it was awful!!!
They are probably reason that the unions got short hood forward (for the most part) in their agreement.

The GE's exhaust would roll back into the cabs making people sick. Being a 4 stroker the exhaust didn't seem tocome out of the stack and get up high enough to get out of the vorticies from the car body. It wasn't too bad if you were in #8, but use a low notch or go to DB or switch in the yard and the fumes would make youphysically sick to your stomach.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigJim

QUOTE: I can't recall ever seeing a photo of the GE's running long hood first.

OH, but they did!!! And it was awful!!!
They are probably reason that the unions got short hood forward (for the most part) in their agreement.

The GE's exhaust would roll back into the cabs making people sick. Being a 4 stroker the exhaust didn't seem tocome out of the stack and get up high enough to get out of the vorticies from the car body. It wasn't too bad if you were in #8, but use a low notch or go to DB or switch in the yard and the fumes would make youphysically sick to your stomach.

Lovely. The romance of railroading. Interestingly, I have seen numerous photos of the C39-8's running long hood first, but never the dash7's. Now we know why.....

[BigJim]

Keep in mind that single units will be on switchers at outlying points. When they go one way short hood they have to come back long hood as there are no wyes to turn them on.

Steam on turnaround jobs operatedthesame way.Usually they would be backward leaving the terminal so that they would be heading forward coming into the terminal.

[Anonymous]

are there any books published about n & w steam locos.
if so can they be got in the uk.
while on the subject of steam locos, did the n & w ever own the following types.
4-8-2.
2-10-0.
2-10-2.
2-10-4.
2-8-0.
2-8-2.
2-8-4.
sorry to keep pestering you guys.
rod.

[BigJim]

Rod,
Do a search for N&W Giant of Steam by Lewis Jeffries. A new revised edition has just been released. Better yet, go to; www.nwhs.org
Then go to the Concession link. You should be able to find anything that is still in print. While you are there, why not join?
The N&W did not own any;
2-10-0
2-10-2
2-10-4
2-8-2
2-8-4

[Anonymous]

many thanks for the information jim.
i will get on it right away.
have a nice day.

rod.

[BigJim]

Rod,
There are at least a couple of N&WHS members that live on your side of the pond.