Not to dig up an old thread, but I guess it's better than starting another, why did BN and ATSF order SD45s as F45s, Wiki claims that ATSF did it for aesthetics and BN did it to protect crews from the elements, is this true?
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
I'll add that to my list of projects. Hopefully I can start on it soon.
If I were to build this loco, I would start with an F40ph, saw off the cab, and replace it with a spartan cab style from a GP40.
There would be some scratch building, to get the body to fit the cab.
Mike.
My You Tube
NWP SWPhe following post 4 hours ago: I saw a picture of a GP40PH-2, looks like a GP40 and a F40PH MU'ed and had this... Was there ever an SD version?
Was there ever an SD version?
Hello Steven,
While not exactly what you are looking for, there is a loco in Australia that was a cross between an E9 and an F45 to wit...
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0404/anrcl5.jpg
the last of which was built in 1972. I am of the belief that Amtrak wanted to use the Bulldog nose for the first cowl units it bought in 1973 and those locos could have looked like the Commonwealth Railways/Australian National CL classes.
Before there were models of these locos available, I toyed with the idea of making a similar loco using an FP45 body on an F45 chassis with an F unit front. I liked the D&H scheme applied to the PA's and thought a hypothetical replacement for PA's could have been...
The fun of modelling, quelled at the time by career needs and raising children...
Regards from Australia,
Trevor
I'm looking at a few on eBay, I think I have the money to spend on a project like this, the question is do I use the chassis and cab of a SD45 and just use a FP45 shell for the body or use a FP45 chassis and body and a SD45 shell for the cab, decisions, decisions.
NWP SWPWas there ever an SD version?
You could start here and replace the cab with one from a donor, or get one from Cannon or one of the diesel detail suppliers.
Amtrak_SDP2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cannon site:
https://shop.cannonandco.net/category.sc?categoryId=9
Good Luck, Ed
I saw a picture of a GP40PH-2, looks like a GP40 and a F40PH MU'ed and had this.
NWP SWP I see. What are some of the other variants of SD4x series?
I see.
What are some of the other variants of SD4x series?
Hello Steven
Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM-EMD_locomotives. I got it by typing in "EMD SD diesel locomotives" into the browser
Regards from Australia
NWP SWPI wonder if EMD ever proposed a successor to the DDa40x units, maybe a DD45 or a HT-B-B 45 unit (borrowing from the experimental HT-B-B truck they tested with BN on a SD45)
The DD units were to my knowledge never seriously considered by any road other than UP. At that time most Eastern roads would not have considered double-diesel designs to be particularly 'economical', particularly in the sandwich configurations for long, heavy trains that EMD had been marketing up to the era of the Centennials. We will not go into issues of track mechanics and lateral motion in general long-term use, but there are reasons no railroad would want a limited number of specialized D-truck locomotives in an era when much high-speed early intermodal was still optimized around non-Flexicoil B trucks.
The same is my takeaway from the HT-B-B testing: if there had been the least shred of demand for the idea, some railroad or other would actually have ordered a locomotive with the arrangement on both ends. I think we can say categorically that BN saw no meaningful reason to place actual orders, or even conduct extended testing. (This aside from the general success, partly driven by expediency and partly by necessity, of the span-bolster B-B truck arrangements as used in Brazil).
What you saw at the time was an emphasis in different directions, culminating on the one hand in much higher achieved HP per axle (with slip and creep control) and various combinations of ZWT and radial-steering arrangements in conventional B and C truck geometry and secondary 'pivot' arrangements. I do not think that any aspect of the 'market failure' of 6000hp C-C locomotives can be attributed to the truck configuration (and while the GE version of steerable axles still strikes me as extremely strange, CSX operates locomotives with those trucks to this day, albeit with derated or replaced prime movers).
I wonder if EMD ever proposed a successor to the DDa40x units, maybe a DD45 or a HT-B-B 45 unit (borrowing from the experimental HT-B-B truck they tested with BN on a SD45)
Another idea for the files of the NWP-SWP shops is a SDP45-2T that's a Special Duty Passenger 45-2 Tunnel, that's to run passenger trains over the several mountain passes on the NWP-SWP system.
Back to the subject at hand, so the EL units were basically SDP45s with increased fuel capacity, sans steam generator, and ballasted for higher traction?
The WC had one, #6634. It was former EL 3656.
On a standard SDP45 the area aft of the radiator fans held a steam generator and water tanks for passenger service, since these were in freight service they did not have the flat end like the SP or GN units, but a pointed real end that was filled with concrete to give extra weight for traction, especially as the fuel tank emptied.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
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" these units had a long metal head end; the extra space aft of the radiators had concrete ballast."
What's the "long metal head end" the article refers to?
The SDP45's (SD45M's on the EL) were purchased primarily for the ability to have a 5,000 gal fuel tank, similar to the last group of SD45's that the EL purchased where the air tanks were moved to the end of the long hood so they could also have the larger fuel tank.
And contrary to popular belief they did not have the large fuel tank to go from NY to Chicago on one tank of fuel, but they were to go from Marion, OH (where the EL had a large diesel facility), to either Chicago or NY and back in order to take advantage of the lower taxes on fuel in Marion versus refueling in either Chicago or NY.
One of these survives, reasonably intact, in the back lot of the Museum of Transportation (VMT) in Roanoke. If I recall correctly, its principal issue is a bad turbo. I get a little comfort every time I see it there and know it's safe.
It would be interesting to know how many of these still survive with later owners and in lease fleets. The information on the fallenflags site indicates some of the history, but not the present status.
Athearn Genesis produces a very nice likeness in HO!
EL_3666b by Edmund, on Flickr
I used to see them running near the ore docks around Cleveland and on the main line in the Meadville, PA, Kent, Ohio, area.
EL_3666 by Edmund, on Flickr
Occasionally I would see them M-Ued with some of the displaced passenger E-8s. Now that made for a sharp-looking train! Someday I have to get around to lowering those horns. The Erie had them mounted lower and more forward to clear the low tunnel leading to the Cleveland Ore docks.
Regards, Ed
There were two orders to EMD for these units.
34976-34994 05-06/69 (7174) Erie Lackawanna 3635-3653
36658-36665 07-08/70 (7246) Erie Lackawanna 3654-3661
36880-36886 08/70 (7246 cont'd) Erie Lackawanna 3662-3668
Diesel data from A. J. Kristopans. You will find that the majority of information about these Erie Lackawanna units will call them SDP45s. The 1990 EMD Product Data shows that 33 of these SDP45 units were still on the Conrail roster.
Here is a whole page of photo links of Erie Lackawanna SDP45s:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/sdp45.html
This is the article I read.
"The Erie Lackawanna Railroad ordered 34 SD45Ms in 1969 and 1970. Intended for freight service, these units had a long metal head end; the extra space aft of the radiators had concrete ballast. Their longer frames permitted a larger fuel tank which gave the locomotives a greater range between fuel stops"
So the answer to your question, yes.
NWP SWPI am trying get to find a picture of a SD-45M that supposedly was built 34 strong for the Erie Lackawanna
Are you thinking of the SDP units that were bought specifically for the larger fuel-tank capacity?
What are the models of the SD-4x lineup specifically the variants. I am trying get to find a picture of a SD-45M that supposedly was built 34 strong for the Erie Lackawanna, I googled it and can't find anything. Thanks!
HERE'S MY NEW QUESTION:
I was reading about EMD's F45 and that supposedly (according to Wikipedia) BN/GN ordered the units to protect their crews from the elements, and ATSF bought them for aesthetics.
Now the BN/GN reasoning somwhat makes sense due to another supposed (I forget the source but it wasn't Wiki, maybe a rail DVD) anyways supposedly Espee crews on Donner preferred the Cowl units like Fs, Es, and PAs over hood units like Geeps and Seeds, because they had more "protection from the elements" now whether all this is true is questionable. Thanks!
New new question...
I am looking at this locomotive on ebay, does it have a SD45 20 Cyl. PM? According to the listing it's a SD40M but by all outward appearances its a SDP45 rebuild without its steam generator.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG63679