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SD-40s and other delights...

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SD-40s and other delights...
Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:07 PM

What are the models of the SD-4x lineup specifically the variants. I am trying get to find a picture of a SD-45M that supposedly was built 34 strong for the Erie Lackawanna, I googled it and can't find anything. Thanks!

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:30 PM

NWP SWP
I am trying get to find a picture of a SD-45M that supposedly was built 34 strong for the Erie Lackawanna

Are you thinking of the SDP units that were bought specifically for the larger fuel-tank capacity?

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:35 PM

This is the article I read.

"The Erie Lackawanna Railroad ordered 34 SD45Ms in 1969 and 1970. Intended for freight service, these units had a long metal head end; the extra space aft of the radiators had concrete ballast. Their longer frames permitted a larger fuel tank which gave the locomotives a greater range between fuel stops"

So the answer to your question, yes.

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:19 AM

Here is a whole page of photo links of Erie Lackawanna SDP45s: 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/sdp45.html 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:31 AM

There were two orders to EMD for these units. 

34976-34994 05-06/69 (7174)
Erie Lackawanna 3635-3653

 

36658-36665 07-08/70 (7246)
Erie Lackawanna 3654-3661

 

36880-36886 08/70 (7246 cont'd)
Erie Lackawanna 3662-3668

Diesel data from A. J. Kristopans. You will find that the majority of information about these Erie Lackawanna units will call them SDP45s. The 1990 EMD Product Data shows that 33 of these SDP45 units were still on the Conrail roster. 

 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 1:07 AM

Athearn Genesis produces a very nice likeness in HO!

 EL_3666b by Edmund, on Flickr

I used to see them running near the ore docks around Cleveland and on the main line in the Meadville, PA, Kent, Ohio, area.

 EL_3666 by Edmund, on Flickr

Occasionally I would see them M-Ued with some of the displaced passenger E-8s. Now that made for a sharp-looking train! Someday I have to get around to lowering those horns. The Erie had them mounted lower and more forward to clear the low tunnel leading to the Cleveland Ore docks.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:38 AM

One of these survives, reasonably intact, in the back lot of the Museum of Transportation (VMT) in Roanoke.  If I recall correctly, its principal issue is a bad turbo.  I get a little comfort every time I see it there and know it's safe.

It would be interesting to know how many of these still survive with later owners and in lease fleets.  The information on the fallenflags site indicates some of the history, but not the present status.

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Posted by dti406 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:33 PM

The SDP45's (SD45M's on the EL) were purchased primarily for the ability to have a 5,000 gal fuel tank, similar to the last group of SD45's that the EL purchased where the air tanks were moved to the end of the long hood so they could also have the larger fuel tank.

And contrary to popular belief they did not have the large fuel tank to go from NY to Chicago on one tank of fuel, but they were to go from Marion, OH (where the EL had a large diesel facility), to either Chicago or NY and back in order to take advantage of the lower taxes on fuel in Marion versus refueling in either Chicago or NY.

Rick Jesionowski

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Posted by NWP SWP on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:40 PM

" these units had a long metal head end; the extra space aft of the radiators had concrete ballast."

What's the "long metal head end" the article refers to?

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by dti406 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 3:13 PM

On a standard SDP45 the area aft of the radiator fans held a steam generator and water tanks for passenger service, since these were in freight service they did not have the flat end like the SP or GN units, but a pointed real end that was filled with concrete to give extra weight for traction, especially as the fuel tank emptied.

Rick Jesionowski

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:10 PM

The WC had one, #6634.  It was former EL 3656.

Mike.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 11:04 PM

I wonder if EMD ever proposed a successor to the DDa40x units, maybe a DD45 or a HT-B-B 45 unit (borrowing from the experimental HT-B-B truck they tested with BN on a SD45)

Another idea for the files of the NWP-SWP shops is a SDP45-2T that's a Special Duty Passenger 45-2 Tunnel, that's to run passenger trains over the several mountain passes on the NWP-SWP system.

 

Back to the subject at hand, so the EL units were basically SDP45s with increased fuel capacity, sans steam generator, and ballasted for higher traction?

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:39 AM

NWP SWP
I wonder if EMD ever proposed a successor to the DDa40x units, maybe a DD45 or a HT-B-B 45 unit (borrowing from the experimental HT-B-B truck they tested with BN on a SD45)

The DD units were to my knowledge never seriously considered by any road other than UP.  At that time most Eastern roads would not have considered double-diesel designs to be particularly 'economical', particularly in the sandwich configurations for long, heavy trains that EMD had been marketing up to the era of the Centennials.  We will not go into issues of track mechanics and lateral motion in general long-term use, but there are reasons no railroad would want a limited number of specialized D-truck locomotives in an era when much high-speed early intermodal was still optimized around non-Flexicoil B trucks.

The same is my takeaway from the HT-B-B testing: if there had been the least shred of demand for the idea, some railroad or other would actually have ordered a locomotive with the arrangement on both ends.  I think we can say categorically that BN saw no meaningful reason to place actual orders, or even conduct extended testing.  (This aside from the general success, partly driven by expediency and partly by necessity, of the span-bolster B-B truck arrangements as used in Brazil). 

What you saw at the time was an emphasis in different directions, culminating on the one hand in much higher achieved HP per axle (with slip and creep control) and various combinations of ZWT and radial-steering arrangements in conventional B and C truck geometry and secondary 'pivot' arrangements.  I do not think that any aspect of the 'market failure' of 6000hp C-C locomotives can be attributed to the truck configuration (and while the GE version of steerable axles still strikes me as extremely strange, CSX operates locomotives with those trucks to this day, albeit with derated or replaced prime movers).

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Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, April 12, 2018 8:21 PM

I see. 

What are some of the other variants of SD4x series?

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by xdford on Friday, April 13, 2018 4:14 AM

NWP SWP

I see. 

What are some of the other variants of SD4x series?

 

Hello Steven

Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM-EMD_locomotives. I got it by typing in "EMD SD diesel locomotives" into the browser

Regards from Australia

Trevor

 

 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, April 14, 2018 4:59 PM

I saw a picture of a GP40PH-2, looks like a GP40 and a F40PH  MU'ed and had this.

Was there ever an SD version?

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, April 14, 2018 5:18 PM

NWP SWP
Was there ever an SD version?

You could start here and replace the cab with one from a donor, or get one from Cannon or one of the diesel detail suppliers.

 Amtrak_SDP2 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Cannon site:

https://shop.cannonandco.net/category.sc?categoryId=9

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, April 14, 2018 8:30 PM

I'm looking at a few on eBay, I think I have the money to spend on a project like this, the question is do I use the chassis and cab of a SD45 and just use a FP45 shell for the body or use a FP45 chassis and body and a SD45 shell for the cab, decisions, decisions. Laugh

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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Posted by xdford on Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:26 PM

NWP SWP
he following post 4 hours ago: I saw a picture of a GP40PH-2, looks like a GP40 and a F40PH  MU'ed and had this...

Was there ever an SD version?

Hello Steven,

While not exactly what you are looking for, there is a loco in Australia that was a cross between an E9 and an F45  to wit...

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0404/anrcl5.jpg

the last of which was built in 1972. I am of the belief that Amtrak wanted to use the Bulldog nose for the first cowl units it bought in 1973 and those locos could have looked like the Commonwealth Railways/Australian National CL classes.

Before there were models of these locos available, I toyed with the idea of making a similar loco using an FP45 body on an F45 chassis with an F unit front.  I liked the D&H scheme applied to the PA's and thought a hypothetical replacement for PA's could have been...

The fun of modelling, quelled at the time by career needs and raising children...

Regards from Australia,

Trevor

 

 

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:19 PM

If I were to build this loco, I would start with an F40ph, saw off the cab, and replace it with a spartan cab style from a GP40.

There would be some scratch building, to get the body to fit the cab.

Mike.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:24 PM

I'll add that to my list of projects. Hopefully I can start on it soon.

Steven

Crooner, Imagineer, High School Senior, living with Aspergers, and President of the NWP-SWP System.

Modeling the combined lines of the Southern Pacific, Western Pacific, and Northern Pacific after a fictional Depression Era merger forming the SouthWestern Pacific and NorthWestern Pacific Railroads. SP, WP, and NP operations remain independent but also operate alongside NWP and SWP equipment.

Hook'em Longhorns! 

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