A railroad can own and use multiple reporting marks. During the CR split, the CSXT and NS reactivated the NYC and PRR reporting marks. The UP built a new series of hi-cap covered hoppers and used CMO reporting marks. A lot of their ballast hoppers are in SI reporting marks
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Bubbytrains Rutland seems an interesting case. Officially their reporting mark was RUT, I think, but I've seen several pictures of gondolas with just "R". Boxcars didn't event seem to use reporting marks, and just had RUTLAND written out. My favorite rr, MAINE CENTRAL, couldn't use MC because it was already used by NYC subsidiary Michigan Central. Ironically, in the early 90's when Maine Coast Rr took over the MEC Rockland branch, they were able to use MC! What was Rock Island's? Was it CRIP, RI, or did it become ROCK in the 70's?
Rutland seems an interesting case. Officially their reporting mark was RUT, I think, but I've seen several pictures of gondolas with just "R". Boxcars didn't event seem to use reporting marks, and just had RUTLAND written out.
My favorite rr, MAINE CENTRAL, couldn't use MC because it was already used by NYC subsidiary Michigan Central. Ironically, in the early 90's when Maine Coast Rr took over the MEC Rockland branch, they were able to use MC!
What was Rock Island's? Was it CRIP, RI, or did it become ROCK in the 70's?
Rock Island was RI. After the new image debuted in 1975, ROCK also became a Rock Island reporting mark.
Reporting marks can be reused after a mark has been discontinued by the original assigned entity. I believe the time interval is 5 years. Each edition of the Official Railway Equipment Register had a section that listed changes to assigned marks.
Jeff
The Pennsy also had cars with no reporting marks on the side, they just had "PENNSYLVANIA" on the side, no PRR.
7j43kRio Grande is the ONLY reporting mark with 5 "letters". Or more.
Sure enough —
Plenty more at Fallen Flags:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw67416jpb.jpg
Remember the silver "Cookie Box" cars?
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw60037jpa.jpg
Regards, Ed
gmpullman And other photos at the same site, Bob, show D&RGW reporting marks on box cars... Cheers! Ed
And other photos at the same site, Bob, show D&RGW reporting marks on box cars...
Cheers! Ed
Now, THERE'S a find!
I looked through the reporting mark list in my July 1945 ORER. Rio Grande is the ONLY reporting mark with 5 "letters". Or more.
So I went back to my oldest copy: November 1926. There are NO reporting marks with more than 4 "letters".
So, you ask, what about D&RGW? Well, in that copy, it's D&RG.
Ed
BubbytrainsBoxcars didn't event seem to use reporting marks, and just had RUTLAND written out.
.
A lot of GORRE & DAPHETID equipment did not have reporting marks. Some said G&D in the logo on the right side of the car. The left side had the road name spelled out and the car number.
Of course, John Allen did not follow reality if his ideas were better.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
the Soo Line appears to also go beyond 4 characters, even on the ends:
http://www.westernrailimages.com/keyword/boxcar/i-PTZchKg/A
Bubbytrains
There may be a few, but the majority aren't "true" PRR. They were stenciled as such for bookkeeping purposes during the Conrail breakup. PRR went to Norfolk Southern and NYC to CSX. Curiously, PRR marked locomotives were way more common on NS and NYC rolling stock on CSX. A lot of the Conrad hoppers that gained NYC marks kept them even after getting the CSX paint jobs. The PRR marks I've seen tended to still sporting Conrail colors.
There are numerous instances of identical car numbers. there have been several photos in Trains over the years. I think one was in Decatur Illinois after N&W merged with Wabash. However the reporting rr while listed in this case under N&W was listed as Wabash. There are still a couple of hundred PRR cars floating around (at least there were last time I checked an ORER.
Concerning the ampersand, I think it did happen in the 70s. The B&LE used the ampersand reporting mark, but equipment brought in after the 70s sports BLE. There's Chessie equipment roaming around that still has B&O or C&O on it, which means they haven't been painted since the 70s either.
Lone Wolf and Santa FeWhen I’m shopping for models and I search for ‘CP’ I get Central Pacific and also Canadian Pacific.
I think that is because you are using only a portion of the reporting mark. From what I see on the net, Central Pacific's reporting mark was CPRR, while Canadian Pacific was either CP or CPR.
BMMECNYC SeeYou190 Also known as the Big Four.
SeeYou190
Also known as the Big Four.
Short for the Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis. That's where steam spent it's waning years as the rest of the NYC became dieselized.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
SeeYou190I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead: . . Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system.
As for Bill Darnaby's Maumee Route, just google "Maumee Route" and click images. First two results for me were steam locomotives of the railroad.
SeeYou190 I think I made a mistake. . I paint and letter all of my freight cars for for fictitious railroads. I accidentally have created two railroads with the same reporting initials. They are both "CATR". . My question is this... were there ever two railroads that operated with the same reporting marks? . I really believe the answer is no, but I am hoping I am wrong this time. . -Kevin .
I think I made a mistake.
I paint and letter all of my freight cars for for fictitious railroads. I accidentally have created two railroads with the same reporting initials. They are both "CATR".
My question is this... were there ever two railroads that operated with the same reporting marks?
I really believe the answer is no, but I am hoping I am wrong this time.
Just have have one be a subsidiary of the other and they both use the parent lines reporting marks.
What's wrong with having a single letter reporting mark is that a second letter is a check letter. "P" is easier to make a mistake on than "PRR": "P". Or perhaps "B". Or "R". Or "F"..........
And a third and a fourth check letter, even more so. I've just been going through consists, and have had to puzzle out somebody else's handwriting. Which was better than mine, I'll admit. Those "extra" letters are real helpful.
One of the reporting marks I saw was "AT". SAY, WHAT??? After I did some comparing and contrasting with letters and numbers, I figured out the guy meant ATSF. Not "guessed", "knew". 'Cause I had to know. Pfew.
Having more than 4 letters just slows all the crews down when doing their paperwork. And makes 'em cranky. Which is why no one would write "PENNSYLVANIA" down, even if that was the only reporting marks showing.
SeeYou190 cuyama As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU". . In pictures of his steamers, they have the initials CIC&STL on them, usually on one of the domes. . I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead: . . Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system. . jeffhergert IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry. . You are right about that one. Somewhere I got the idea that the SSW or "Cotton Belt" was actually the St. Louis, Arkansas, and Texas Railroad. I need to find the guy that told me that. His story was that the railroad did not want the reporting marks "SLAT", and "CB" was already in use. I'll bet those are all lies. . What about older Santa Fe freight cars that had the reporting marks "AT&SF"? When did they drop the "&" and just become "ATSF"? . . -Kevin .
cuyama As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".
In pictures of his steamers, they have the initials CIC&STL on them, usually on one of the domes.
I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead:
Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system.
jeffhergert IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry.
You are right about that one. Somewhere I got the idea that the SSW or "Cotton Belt" was actually the St. Louis, Arkansas, and Texas Railroad. I need to find the guy that told me that. His story was that the railroad did not want the reporting marks "SLAT", and "CB" was already in use. I'll bet those are all lies.
What about older Santa Fe freight cars that had the reporting marks "AT&SF"? When did they drop the "&" and just become "ATSF"?
The ampersand was allowed at one time to appear in the reporting marks. I'm not sure when it was dropped, but I believe it was due to computers becoming more prevalent in railroad operations.
IIRC the rule that you couldn't have more than four letters was made in the late steam era - 1950's, maybe even early 1960's? Before that, you could do pretty much what you wanted as long as no other railroad had already used it. (I think ampersands were disallowed at the same time....)
Interesting that when railroads merge, the new railroad continued to 'own' the reporting marks of the earlier railroads. That why Union Pacific can have cars today using reporting marks CNW (Chicago & NorthWestern), CMO (Chicago Minneapolis St.Paul & Omaha), MSTL (Minneapolis & St.Louis) etc.
Re the OP about equipment with the same reporting marks...remember, the "official" name of the equipment is the reporting marks, not the name spelled out on the car or the slogan or whatever. There have been situations where the ABC railroad bought used equipment from the XYZ railroad, and just painted over the XYZ reporting marks with ABC and perhaps (but not necessarily) a new car number, while the rest of the car looked to all the world like an XYZ car. Maybe you could work that into the story of your equipment?
cuyamaAs seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".
jeffhergertIMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry.
There is an existing SWP too. Southwest Pennsylvania Railroad. Operates in the former coal fields southeast of Pittsburgh.
So I nickname my road the Great Pacific Road and give it PACF or GPR rep morks.
Edit: Marks not morks. Nanu Nanu!
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
SeeYou190 tstage Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved... . That seems like a fine solution. . Not all reporting marks are the railroads initials. You can be the "Northwestern Pacific Southwestern Pacific", and use any reporting marks you like (unless you want to be sure not to interfere with an actual railroad). . Look at NKP, SSW, or MILW if you want examples of reporting marks that are nothing like the actual railroad names. . Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly. . . -Kevin .
tstage Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved...
That seems like a fine solution.
Not all reporting marks are the railroads initials. You can be the "Northwestern Pacific Southwestern Pacific", and use any reporting marks you like (unless you want to be sure not to interfere with an actual railroad).
Look at NKP, SSW, or MILW if you want examples of reporting marks that are nothing like the actual railroad names.
Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly.
IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry. The others (NKP and MILW) reflect the nickname/brand name for the railroad, Nickel Plate Road and Milwaukee Road. In the early days before and until shortly after the Milwaukee built to the Pacific, it's nickname was the St. Paul Road or just the St. Paul.
SeeYou190Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly.
As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
tstageSince you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved...
arbe1948 Somebody didn't tell the Pennsylvania about the two to four letter rule: http://www.fotothing.com/Studio88/photo/62f78003b0a46edfa0f30bfdedf73e4f/
Somebody didn't tell the Pennsylvania about the two to four letter rule:
http://www.fotothing.com/Studio88/photo/62f78003b0a46edfa0f30bfdedf73e4f/
If you look at the end of the car, it has PRR and the car number.
I've seen pictures of a few other railroad's cars where only the railroad name appeared on the side of the car. The assigned reporting mark would appear on the end of the car.
When I’m shopping for models and I search for ‘CP’ I get Central Pacific and also Canadian Pacific.
That;s a tough one, have to come up with something, ince it seems most mergers seem to take into accoutn what they can call themselves and how it fits with reporting marks. BNSF, or the aborted SPSF come to mind. Even modelers keep this in mind - like Linn Westcott's use of Great Northern Pacific (GNP).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved...
NWP SWPSo reporting mark NWP-SWP or SWP-NWP would be good or bad?
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."