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Reporting Mark Messup

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Reporting Mark Messup
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 1:33 PM

I think I made a mistake.

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I paint and letter all of my freight cars for for fictitious railroads. I accidentally have created two railroads with the same reporting initials. They are both "CATR".

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My question is this... were there ever two railroads that operated with the same reporting marks?

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I really believe the answer is no, but I am hoping I am wrong this time.

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-Kevin

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:07 PM

 Nope, the AAR made sure everyone was unique.

Pretty comprehensive list here (as of 2006)

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/railroad-reporting-marks

The good news is, there is no CATR prototype.

                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:21 PM

Thanks Randy, I was pretty sure that is how it was.

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Also, there is no SGRR! Smile

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-Kevin

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, December 10, 2017 2:58 PM

Good example of what happened with two with similar initials:

POV Pittsburgh and Ohio Valley Railway
POVA Pend Oreille Valley Railroad

                                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, December 10, 2017 3:19 PM

I have a question similar to this. What's the max length of a reporting  mark? Are letters the only allowed characters?

Steve

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:53 PM

SeeYou190
....My question is this... were there ever two railroads that operated with the same reporting marks?....

Yes there were:  the Texas & New Orleans and the Temiskaming & Northern Ontario used the same T&NO reporting marks from 1902 to 1946, when the latter road's name was changed to the Ontario Northland Railway.

Wayne

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:18 PM

SeeYou190
I accidentally have created two railroads with the same reporting initials. They are both "CATR".

Simply explain to visiting naysayers that the cars with the CATR reporting marks were leased to the other railroad. Leasing agreements can take many forms. Often, a bank or "equipment trust" would actually own the car. If the car displayed the lessor's reporting mark a "trust plate" might be stenciled or even a cast iron plate affixed to the car. The car might be painted in the lessee's paint scheme.

It's your railroad.

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Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:13 PM

NWP SWP

I have a question similar to this. What's the max length of a reporting  mark? Are letters the only allowed characters?

 

Two to four letters, no more no less, must be letters, cannot end in U, X, or Z.  U, X, and Z are reserved for containers, cars owned by entities other than railroads (for instance, XOMX is Exxon-Mobil), and trailers without flanged wheels, respectively.

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Posted by angelob6660 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:06 PM

NittanyLion

 

 
NWP SWP

I have a question similar to this. What's the max length of a reporting  mark? Are letters the only allowed characters?

 

 

 

Two to four letters, no more no less, must be letters, cannot end in U, X, or Z.  U, X, and Z are reserved for containers, cars owned by entities other than railroads (for instance, XOMX is Exxon-Mobil), and trailers without flanged wheels, respectively.

 

 

Easier explanation.

U- Container, Z- Trailer, X- Transportation.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:31 PM

NittanyLion
and trailers without flanged wheels,

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Oh no. I need to stop asking questions. Now I find more mistakes!

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When did the rule for "Z" for trailers go into effect? My railroad is in 1954, and I marked my trailers with "SGMF" (Stratton & Gillette Motor Freight) remorting marks.

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Is this OK?

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-Kevin

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Posted by arbe1948 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 9:00 PM

Somebody didn't tell the Pennsylvania about the two to four letter rule:

http://www.fotothing.com/Studio88/photo/62f78003b0a46edfa0f30bfdedf73e4f/

Bob Bochenek
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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, December 10, 2017 9:01 PM

Were there EVER single letter reporting marks?

There's:

Alton        A

Bamberger      B

Montour        M

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, December 10, 2017 9:18 PM

So reporting mark NWP-SWP or SWP-NWP would be good or bad?

Steve

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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, December 11, 2017 3:05 AM
What did Mr Messup do!!!!!!!?????Whistling
NWP SWP
So reporting mark NWP-SWP or SWP-NWP would be good or bad?
 
A very quick look through the AAR reporting mark list would lead me to believe that no more than four letters are used.
NWP is /has been allocated to the Northwestern Pacific Railroad; Southern Pacific Railroad; and Union Pacific Railroad.
SWP would appear available for your purposes.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:26 AM

Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both.  Problem solved...

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, December 11, 2017 7:09 AM

That;s a tough one, have to come up with something, ince it seems most mergers seem to take into accoutn what they can call themselves and how it fits with reporting marks. BNSF, or the aborted SPSF come to mind. Even modelers keep this in mind - like Linn Westcott's use of Great Northern Pacific (GNP). 

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Monday, December 11, 2017 12:14 PM

When I’m shopping for models and I search for ‘CP’ I get Central Pacific and also Canadian Pacific. Confused

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 11, 2017 12:38 PM

arbe1948

Somebody didn't tell the Pennsylvania about the two to four letter rule:

http://www.fotothing.com/Studio88/photo/62f78003b0a46edfa0f30bfdedf73e4f/

 

If you look at the end of the car, it has PRR and the car number. 

I've seen pictures of a few other railroad's cars where only the railroad name appeared on the side of the car.  The assigned reporting mark would appear on the end of the car.  

Jeff

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, December 11, 2017 12:39 PM

tstage
Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved...

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That seems like a fine solution.

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Not all reporting marks are the railroads initials. You can be the "Northwestern Pacific Southwestern Pacific", and use any reporting marks you like (unless you want to be sure not to interfere with an actual railroad).

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Look at NKP, SSW, or MILW if you want examples of reporting marks that are nothing like the actual railroad names.

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Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly.

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Whistling

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Posted by cuyama on Monday, December 11, 2017 12:54 PM

SeeYou190
Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly.

As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 11, 2017 2:41 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
tstage
Since you are allowed up to four letters, why can't you just have "NSWP" to represent both. Problem solved...

 

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That seems like a fine solution.

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Not all reporting marks are the railroads initials. You can be the "Northwestern Pacific Southwestern Pacific", and use any reporting marks you like (unless you want to be sure not to interfere with an actual railroad).

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Look at NKP, SSW, or MILW if you want examples of reporting marks that are nothing like the actual railroad names.

.

Maybe someone needs to get this message to Bill Darnaby. His "Maumee Route" uses the reporting marks CIC&STL if I am remembering correctly.

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Whistling

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-Kevin

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IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name,  St Louis Southwestern Ry.  The others (NKP and MILW) reflect the nickname/brand name for the railroad, Nickel Plate Road and Milwaukee Road.  In the early days before and until shortly after the Milwaukee built to the Pacific, it's nickname was the St. Paul Road or just the St. Paul.     

Jeff

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, December 11, 2017 3:16 PM

So I nickname my road the Great Pacific Road and give it PACF or GPR rep morks.

Edit: Marks not morks. Nanu Nanu!

Steve

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Posted by NittanyLion on Monday, December 11, 2017 3:46 PM

There is an existing SWP too. Southwest Pennsylvania Railroad. Operates in the former coal fields southeast of Pittsburgh. 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, December 11, 2017 4:27 PM

cuyama
As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".

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In pictures of his steamers, they have the initials CIC&STL on them, usually on one of the domes.

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I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead:

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Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system.

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jeffhergert
IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry.

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You are right about that one. Somewhere I got the idea that the SSW or "Cotton Belt" was actually the St. Louis, Arkansas, and Texas Railroad. I need to find the guy that told me that. His story was that the railroad did not want the reporting marks "SLAT", and "CB" was already in use. I'll bet those are all lies.

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What about older Santa Fe freight cars that had the reporting marks "AT&SF"? When did they drop the "&" and just become "ATSF"?

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-Kevin

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, December 11, 2017 4:46 PM

IIRC the rule that you couldn't have more than four letters was made in the late steam era - 1950's, maybe even early 1960's? Before that, you could do pretty much what you wanted as long as no other railroad had already used it. (I think ampersands were disallowed at the same time....)

Interesting that when railroads merge, the new railroad continued to 'own' the reporting marks of the earlier railroads. That why Union Pacific can have cars today using reporting marks CNW (Chicago & NorthWestern), CMO (Chicago Minneapolis St.Paul & Omaha), MSTL (Minneapolis & St.Louis) etc.

Re the OP about equipment with the same reporting marks...remember, the "official" name of the equipment is the reporting marks, not the name spelled out on the car or the slogan or whatever. There have been situations where the ABC railroad bought used equipment from the XYZ railroad, and just painted over the XYZ reporting marks with ABC and perhaps (but not necessarily) a new car number, while the rest of the car looked to all the world like an XYZ car. Maybe you could work that into the story of your equipment?

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, December 11, 2017 4:55 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
cuyama
As seen in published photos, such as page 65 of Model Railroad Planning 1995, Darnaby's reporting marks are "MAU".

 

.

In pictures of his steamers, they have the initials CIC&STL on them, usually on one of the domes.

.

I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead:

.

.

Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system.

.

 

 
jeffhergert
IMO, SSW was a lot like it's actual name, St Louis Southwestern Ry.

 

.

You are right about that one. Somewhere I got the idea that the SSW or "Cotton Belt" was actually the St. Louis, Arkansas, and Texas Railroad. I need to find the guy that told me that. His story was that the railroad did not want the reporting marks "SLAT", and "CB" was already in use. I'll bet those are all lies.

.

What about older Santa Fe freight cars that had the reporting marks "AT&SF"? When did they drop the "&" and just become "ATSF"?

.

.

-Kevin

.

 

The ampersand was allowed at one time to appear in the reporting marks.  I'm not sure when it was dropped, but I believe it was due to computers becoming more prevalent in railroad operations.

Jeff

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Posted by 7j43k on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:01 PM

What's wrong with having a single letter reporting mark is that a second letter is a check letter.  "P" is easier to make a mistake on than "PRR":  "P".  Or perhaps "B".  Or "R". Or "F"..........

And a third and a fourth check letter, even more so.  I've just been going through consists, and have had to puzzle out somebody else's handwriting.  Which was better than mine, I'll admit.  Those "extra" letters are real helpful.

One of the reporting marks I saw was "AT".  SAY, WHAT???  After I did some comparing and contrasting with letters and numbers, I figured out the guy meant ATSF.  Not "guessed", "knew".  'Cause I had to know.  Pfew.

Having more than 4 letters just slows all the crews down when doing their paperwork.  And makes 'em cranky.  Which is why no one would write "PENNSYLVANIA" down, even if that was the only reporting marks showing.

 

Ed

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Posted by DavidH66 on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:21 PM

SeeYou190

I think I made a mistake.

.

I paint and letter all of my freight cars for for fictitious railroads. I accidentally have created two railroads with the same reporting initials. They are both "CATR".

.

My question is this... were there ever two railroads that operated with the same reporting marks?

.

I really believe the answer is no, but I am hoping I am wrong this time.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

Just have have one be a subsidiary of the other and they both use the parent lines reporting marks.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:41 PM

SeeYou190
I tried to find a picture, but I found this instead: . . Apparently the CCC&STL was part of the NYC system.

Also known as the Big Four.

As for Bill Darnaby's Maumee Route, just google "Maumee Route" and click images.  First two results for me were steam locomotives of the railroad.

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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 11, 2017 5:48 PM

BMMECNYC
SeeYou190

Also known as the Big Four.

Short for the Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis.  That's where steam spent it's waning years as the rest of the NYC became dieselized.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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