I'm able to see 3404 on the notes, but not 1427 or 1442. I must be doing something wrong.
Tom
It might be on the non-live link. I tried, but it says I need to log into facebook to see it, and I don't have a facebook account.
Mike.
My You Tube
Here is a link to the Mythical TIME BOOK
http://s350.photobucket.com/user/thomasweekley63/library/?sort=3&page=1
It was probably in the pocket of the Engineer in the Video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZy58c0gi4
Sorry for any frustration with the links, My son is working with a handicap....me!
Thomas
I have to admit I'm stumped. I don't understand shuttling these E units around, especially since the terminals being discussed are not normally associated with end points for major main line passenger trains, which were the normal assignments of E units.
Is it possible the GP7 can pull the commuter train and a dead unit that needs repair?
OK.
A little more detective work shows that the pages are presented in reverse order. The page at far right is the first one, showing December 30, 1963 through January 10, 1964. The next one to the left is January 13-24. Then January 27 - February 7, then the last one (on the left) is February 10 - 14.
Our engineer's normal 5-day work week was Monday through Friday, with weekends off. The train did not operate on Wednesday, January 1, 1964, because it was New Year's day. Normally, 3404 operated alone. Here are the exceptions:
GP7 3404 took E8A 1442 out on Wednesday afternoon, January 15, departing point 511 (Glenwood, according to Ed's post, below) at 4:20 PM, eastbound for point 458 (Connellsville). Number 3404 returned westbound with 1442 the following morning, Thursday, January 16, leaving Connellsvile at 5:50 AM and dropping 1442 at Glenwood. B&O's through Washington to Chicago trains are the only ones likely to be using E units, and those trains operated over Pittsburgh & Lake Erie trackage rights, using the P&LE station in Pittsburgh. That line joined the B&O in the vicinity of Glenwood. I was wrong in concluding 511 was the P&LE station; It was Glenwood. I am revising my guess to say 1442 was removed from a mainline train at Glenwood. I suspect the Connellsville - Pittsburgh commuter train stopped at Glenwood to attach or remove the E units. Most or all B&O commuter trains operated into B&O's own station on the other side of the river. I don't know whether any of B&O's commuter trains operated into the P&LE station. Maybe somebody has a schedule for the commuter trains of that era to confirm this.
On Thursday afternoon, Feb. 6, GP7 3404 left Glenwood with E7A 1427 at 4:20 PM and took it east to Connellsville. If my assumptions above are correct, this means 1427 suffered a road failure and was picked up at Glenwood to be taken to the shop at Connellsville. It was returned westbound by a different crew (possibly over the weekend) and therefore does not show up on this engineman's time book.
On Tuesday morning, Feb. 11, GP7 3404 left the shop at Connellsville with E6B 2409 and took it west to Glenwood. If my assumptions are correct, this means the engine failed over the previous weekend and was taken to Connellsville by a different crew.
These road failures might seem excessive, but bear in mind E6B 2409 was about 24 years old in 1964, and the newest of these units, E8A 1442, was about 14 years old. You can't expect perfection from equipment that old.
That's all I got.
PS: This has been greatly edited, using information supplied by Ed, below. I wanted to delete a lot of erroneous information because I see no point in leaving errors in print for folks to take seriously.
I KNEW I had it around here somewhere!
Like the vendor yells at the baseball games "Get yer' programs here! Ya' don't know what's goin' on without yer' program!"
Well, now we have the "program"—
That 'll give you enough to digest for a while.
I really need a full-time archivist to sort through and organize all my "stuff"!
Have Fun,
Ed
In light of Ed's excellent additional information, I have greatly edited my post of this morning. A lot of what I said has been shown to be wrong, and a lot has been shown to be right. The post now seems to be much more accurate.
Wow
I feel like a rookie working with vetrans...I'll get the coffee.
I can only add this, Thomas Collins got to have all that fun AND get paid $41.38 a day. Which is good money for 1964, he was the first guy on his block in Hazelwood to by a TV. He put it out on the front porch and invited the neighbors.
And a big thanks for all your time.
Ed, do you have anything that would ID what locomotive preceeded the GP7 on the daily run we are discussing? Maybe 1956? Perhaps something that used steam?
I think I've seen pictures of P-1 4-6-2's on the Pittsburgh commuter runs. Most likely, they would have been P-1aa's or P-1c's. The P-1d's had very large tenders and were normally assigned to trains that covered greater distances. You'd probably have to find photos to get specific engine numbers.
I feel the same way, Graymatter, there are a few guys on here that just amaze me with their knowledge.
I contacted an old friend who lived in Pittsburgh during this period. He says 3404 was the regular engine on commuter trains 547 and 548 for a long time.
Smithfield Station was the B&O's downtown Pittsburgh station for commuter trains, the trains to Buffalo on the former BR&P (discontinued Oct., 1955), and B&O trains to Wheeling, WV (discontinued summer, 1956). The Buffalo trains were handled by P-5 and P-6 4-6-2 Pacifics until discontinuance. The Wheeling trains were also handled by Pacifics until discontinuance, but I'm not sure what classes. It is possible that this may have been the last assignment where P-1d's were regularly used. The Smithfield station was taken out of service as of July, 1957 and replaced by the new Grant Street Station, leaving commuter trains as the only regular users of Grant Street.
Train 547 left Connellsville at 6:20 AM. Your engineman evidently reported and took his engine out of the service area at 5:50 AM, 30 minutes before the train's actual departure time from the Connellsville Station. The train was scheduled to arrive at Pittsburgh's Grant Street Station at 8:15 AM. Engine number 3404 normally left the cars at the station and went alone to Glenwood for servicing. Most likely, the E unit stayed with 3404 through the entire commuter run, and went back to Glenwood with 3404, to be dropped there.
The return run in the afternoon was train 548. Number 3404 would have left the Glenwood service area at 4:20 PM and proceeded to the Grant Street Station to couple to its train for the trip to Connellsville. Train 548 departed Grant Street at 5:20 PM, arriving Connellsville at 7:10 PM.
Trains 547 and 548 were discontinued about a year after the time book, after train 548 tied up at Connellsville on Friday, April 16, 1965.
It looks like the puzzle is a little closer to completion.
(Edited again, as more information showed up)
Just a follow up. I found in my old photo collection, a picture I took of B&O GP7 6600 pulling a couple coaches through Brunswick somewhere in the 1958-1962 era.
ENZOAMPS
Is possible that you have a picture from 1957 or earlier?
I am assumeing the GP7 #3404 was preceeded by a version of the 4-6-2 Pacific.
The http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam1.html web page doesnt have any 4-6-2 locomoticves listed.
Found a booK; B&O POWER by Lawernece Sagle. He has every 4-6-2 type scrapped or retired before 1957. The 4-6-2 P-1c amd P-1d Heavy Pacifics made it to 1957.
Then I assume it was a 4-6-2 pacific type replaced by the GP7 on the commuter reoute we have been disscusing. Which then makes me wonder, did Thomas Collins park a Heavy Pacific and return to a GP7? Someone in 1957 must have rode a commuter with steam one day and diesel the next.
ACY
I just want to start another puzzle. What preceeded the GP7 #3404 on commuter trains 457 and 458? The P1-c or P1-d?
graymatter ACY I just want to start another puzzle. What preceeded the GP7 #3404 on commuter trains 457 and 458? The P1-c or P1-d?
I can't say for sure. The P-1 was a fairly big Pacific by B&O standards, that was preferred for Mountainous terrain. There were 70 of them, and they used the same boiler as B&O's very numerous Q-1 and Q-7f 2-8-2's (320 and 50 engines in those classes, respectively). There were a number of P-1 rebuildings and modifications over the years. In the following summation, I have tried to boil a very complicated history down to the basics. The P-1d's and P-1da's were the highest development of the class, and they were preferred for longer and heavier runs. They can be identified by their larger oval sandboxes and much larger 13,500 gallon tenders as compared with the original tenders. The P-1aa, P-1ba, and P-1c kept their smaller round sandboxes and 9,500 gallon tenders (same as those used on the Q-1 2-8-2's) and tended to be used on the commuter runs and branchline trains. In the later years, some P-1d's may have been used on commuter runs as the longer routes were discontinued.
One engine blew up in 1933; one was converted to a V-1 4-6-4; and six were converted to T-3 and T-3b 4-8-2's. Of the sixty two that lasted into the 1950's, three P-1da's were retired between 11/1950 and 12/1953; fourteen P-1aa's were retired between 6/1951 and 11/1952; two P-1ba's were retired 12/1953; fourteen P-1c's were retired between 11/1953 and 1956; and twenty nine P-1d's were retired between 11/1953 and 11/1956. So the P-1c's and P-1d's were the last of the P-1 subclasses in service.
Graymatter
I have only a couple snap shots of 6600 passenger GP7. The four digit numbr tells me it was after the 1956 renumbering. By the time I started taking pictures, steam was gone, and diesels were in the four digit realm.
It seems that 1957 was the demise of steam for the B&O. The GP7 was purchased in 1957, So I could just assume that the Thomas Collins went from steam to a GP7 in 1957. But B&O still had EMD E types that could have been used. Is it more likely that it went from steam to E type to GP7?
The E's were probably fully employed hauling mainline trains. Number 3404 was built in October, 1953 as B&O 744, and equipped for passenger service as built. I suspect she went directly into Pittsburgh commuter service when she was delivered, and that corresponds with the retirement of a lot of the commuter P-1ba's and P-1c's. She was renumbered 3404 in January, 1957, and again renumbered 6697 much later, after C&O control.
B&O renumbered its steam engines from four digits to three digits at the beginning of 1957. This made room in the number series for the four digit numbers to be used by diesels, as I have explained above. Steam continued in limited operation west of Cumberland, with the greatest concentration in Ohio during 1957. A few steamers operated in early 1958, and the last official B&O steam run was an excursion handled by Q-4 2-8-2 421 (former 4434) between Cleveland and Holloway, Ohio on May 17, 1958. After that, 421 was seen and photographed moving around the Cleveland yards later in 1958, but never out on the road, and she was officially stricken from the roster in November of 1958.
If Mr. Collins held down a regular Monday through Friday daylight passenger run in the Connellsville - Pittsburgh terrotory in the 1950's, he had a lot of seniority. Over the years, he would have operated a grear variety of B&O steam engines in both passenger and freight service, long before dieselization. We don't know when he took over that particular job. If it was before late 1953, he probably operated P-1 Pacifics on that run. If it was after late 1953, it can be assumed he operated a variety of B&O steam power on other passenger and freight runs. Freight train operations on the Pittsburgh Division were dominated by 2-8-2's and 2-10-2's, with other larger and smaller types being frequently seen.
Sending you a PM.