Just how far did Applachian coal travel via train?

[jhugart]

I could see how coal might move economically via boat, but if coal needed to be shipped to something like the interior of the states of Illinois or Wisconsin, was it mined in the east and rolled via train from places like West Virginia?

Or did it go from the mines to boats on big rivers, which might go to the Great Lakes, then to Chicago or Sault Ste Marie, and then by rail to inland destinations?

[orsonroy]

The proto guys have mentioned videos and wheel reports from the 1950s that show N&W twin hoppers in California on the UP and SP, but that wasn't all that common an occurance. Mostly, hoppers stayed in their home region.

Remember that there's different types of coal, and that different sources of coal have been tapped at different points in history. In the good old days, most soft coal was used for powerplants, while hard coal was used for home heating. It wasn't all that uncommon to see a Reading or LV twin hopper sitting in Wisconsin, on a team track (my own research has hinted that most fuel dealers in the Midwest didn't have their own spurs. Instead, a twin hopper was spotted on an elevator siding, and the coal was dumped on the ground. Remember, manual labor was cheap back then!)

As for transloading between ships and rails, I've only ever heard of it being a one way deal. Trains pulled the coal out of the mountains, loaded it to ships, and the ships took it to it's final destination. That's one reason why heavy industry and power plants are situated next to navigable waterways: bulk mineral unloading. Coal might have been moved from ship to rails when we sold it overseas, but the American transportation system usually won't ever do this, due to high time and cost considerations.

Chicago, until recently (mid-1960s) got almost all it's coal from central Illinois. The C&IM, Rock Island, and C&NW would pull it out of the ground, move it to Peoria, and dump it into barges. From there, the barges would move the coal to Chicago, where clamshell scoops would pile it up for use by the utilities. Most steel production coal came from Buffalo on lake freighters. Coal heat dealers would get their coal from a variety of sources, depending on which salesman got to them first. Remember, every single coal car movement until about 1960 was an individual movement, by law. No such thing as unit trains and their discounts, so if you could get someone to buy your coal that was 10 states away, the railroads loved it (more cash in their pockets).

[ndbprr]

A lot of opinion in some of the posts that shouldn't be taken as fact without checking. A couple of points:
1. Dependent on the era you model coal travels long distances in unit trains today. The Powder RIver Basin in Wyoming (I think) generates many trains daily for BNSF and UP now but CNW was a player before merger. That coal is going at least as far as Chicago to power plants due to the natural low sulfur content.
2. In the early 70's Detroit Edison contracted with coal sources in Pennsylvania to supply coal to their power plants and had unit trains with Det. Ed. power on the head end.
3. Pennsylvania coal east of the Susquehanna was primarily Anthracite which is phenomenal stuff. When I was a kid in Philly we had a three day power outage due to snow and ice and my father was able to get two 25# bags of anthracite which burned in our fireplace with virtually no ash for the three days. A carload would last somebody a long time and was a premium commodity.
4. As a kid in Philly both the PRR and the REading had elevated mainlines that were lined with coal dealer spurs that took 2-10 cars at a time. I suspect that was fairly common across the country back to the turn of the century. I suspect that the farther back in time you go the more likley the source was local since polution was a sign of progress not a hazzard.
5. My opionion is that Appalchian coal rarely traveled west of the mississippi with the exception of antharcite but would have to research it.

[dehusman]

Anthracite was the premium home heating coal, so it would have been in fairly major cities in the northern half of the country. But it probably wouldn't have been the average heating coal west of the Mississippi. And as soon as oil or gas became common, it would have replaced by oil or gas heaters. There are still anthracite shipments in single car loads from PA to ID for a plant that make paint pigments (I have been told that the coal is used to make titanium oxide which is, ironically, a white pigment). Every so often a Reading, Blue Mountain and Northern hopper comes through Omaha.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Up here in New Hampshire we get unit trains from NS. I believe they orginate in PA somewhere. Back in the 70's we got unit trains from P&LE (Pittsburgh and Lake Erie) then it was Conrail and now NS thru trains.

In the last few years the two major coal fired plants in New England (PSNH - Bow, NH and Mt Tom in Western, MA) have got some coal from the Powder River via UP/NS/GRS. Most of this has gone to Mt. Tom, but atleast 1 unit train came up her to Bow, NH.

I believe over 2,500 miles from Wyoming to Massachuttes and New Hampshire. It typically takes about 7-10 days to make it out here.

Josh

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by orsonroy


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Chicago, until recently (mid-1960s) got almost all it's coal from central Illinois.

The folks in Southern Illinois, also known as Little Egypt, are a proud lot and would be very offended at the reference to coal coming from central Illinois. The coal mines in Illinois are primarily in the Southern, not the central, part of the state. WGGH radio in Marion, Ill. used to announce which mines were working the next day as part of their newscasts. Similar services were offered on the air in Cairo (pronounced KAY row!)Metropolis and other Southern Illinois cities. The folks in that region feel slighted enought by being referred to as "downstate Illinois" by the folks in Chicago without having their coal production attributed to another part of the Land of Lincoln. Kind of a side issue, but important to some.

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