Hi, All
I came across this "Overhead Watering System" while searching Ebay for imported brass; http://www.ebay.com/itm/271365656108?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
(I didn't post the photo to respect the assumed copyright) So, this got me thinking. It says it's a PRR prototype and I have literally hundreds of PRR books, Keystone Magazines, etc and I've never come across such an animal.
Now, I could shell out the asking price but, hey, that money is better spent on engines, therefore my plan is to use an Oregon Railway Supply PRR four track signal bridge, some Tichy Sheffield column spouts and some Walther's refinery piping and come up with my own version in plastic. Looks like a pretty straightforward assembly. Its a perfect solution for me since I didn't allow for track clearance at my main line service facility for regular standpipes.
So I'm wondering if anyone has ever come across prototype photos or has any knowledge of such a beast. The Pennsy had a HUGE coaling facility at Denholm, PA where the loaded hopper cars were actually taken over the main and dumped into the coal bins but even here it looks like they used ordinary water columns.
Happy Modeling... Ed
Just shooting from the hip, since my actual knowledge is nil.
Since the bridge obviously spans four tracks, I'd expect to find it on the departure tracks of a crew change point about half way between division points with huge coaling facilities. The crews would change, the cisterns would need filling and the bunkers would still be 60-70% full. Probably an older yard where engine changes were eliminated by, "Lines west," humongutenders but the track spacing was too tight to permit putting the penstocks in the usual locations.
Check your Pennsy historical data for such a location. You might even see this water bridge in the far background of a photo.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where penstocks had canvas hoses)
I don't think they were a common thing during steam days but I have stumbled on photos of them on at least three different railroads. The Pennsy, Western Maryland and NYC seem to have had at least one overhead watering system at one time or another. I'm sure there were others.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Trains Magazine, April, 1957, bottom of page 21, shows just such an installation on PRR's mainline at Johnstown, PA. The photo was taken by Hastings. A J1 2-10-4 is taking water as GP9's on a Piggyback train slip past. I think somebody (A.H.M.) made a plastic model of this type of bridge a few years ago. I don't think I ever saw one built up, so I don't know about the quality or accuracy of the kit. I don't know how many of these installations existed, but my understanding is that they were built over the 4-track mainline, and were especially useful for delivery of water to engines on the inside 2 tracks. The Trains photo shows the bridge installed next to a sidehill cut, where it would be difficult to install a standpipe next to the cut wall.
Ed-
Yes, those overhead watering bridges are especially fascinating to me since I'm a steam enthusiast. Never saw any in person, but in Al Staufer's book Pennsy Power there's a photo of one described as being at Latrobe, PA with a class G 4-6-0 passing underneath the bridge and scooping water from a track pan. There were multiple tracks there, so maybe the spouts were positioned over tracks without pans....hard to see in the photo. Also, in the same book in the chapter about class T duplexes there appears to be one of these bridges near Cove, PA (not sure because of partial obscuring by smoke).
-Chuck
Hi,
I have an HO kit I built some time ago for the overhead water bridge. I've never seen one in any of my RR books, but "assume" that a prototype must exist if a model kit was produced.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Oh, I never doubted the existance of these overhead waterplugs, I just wanted to further my research and try to get some additional photos for modeling one.
Thanks for the pointers to the reference materials. Anytime I see a unique piece of railroad equipment I just have to dig for more information... Thanks again, everyone! Ed
Not only overhead stand pipes but also overhead coaling racks too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/chryslerbob/10986189043/in/pool-2000050@N25/
Not too many overhead water plugs. Freezing was a problem and steam heat was needed to prevent it. I am not sure when the last pipe bridge was removed but I believe it was around 1920. Bye then the track pans and scoops were the way to go. Scooping water on the fly ensured better times.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Pete, I'm sure freezing was a problem, and I don't know how it was dealt with. But the Hastings photo in April, 1957 Trains was taken in the mid-1950's. So the overhead watering stations definitely lasted well past the 1920's.
ACY.
I should have stated better but I was speaking of the bridges over mainline tracks. The servicing areas still retained stationary bridges till the last of the steamers in the district. I did have a picture in a book that showed a 2-6-0 F3s locomotive just before Horseshoe curve uphill taking water from a bridge when the curve was 3 track. This would have been around 1900. On one of the PRR forums there was a listing of mainline standpipe bridges that were later converted to signal bridges after the pans were installed and larger tenders used. Before the larger tenders and scooping water on the fly trains had to stop along the mainline to take water. The risk of a rear end collision because of an unscheduled water stop was inevitable. The DOT historical site has many investigations of them.
Found It!!! I paged through several Pennsy books this morning over coffee
(substitute photo)
PRR_plug1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Any of these Water Columns had the valve box below the freeze line so that they acted like fire hydrants and drained back when the valve was closed. Still, there was always a steam hose nearby for thawing things out.
New York Central had a big, overhead, mainline coal tower in Wayneport, NY as well.
Now to get the Zona saw out and have at it!
Thanks for the interesting discussion! Ed
Pete ---
I agree these installations must have created problems, but the photo I mentioned showed a mainline installation in the 1950's, and the Don Wood Photo was 1955. So it's clear that they did last a lot longer. There's a right way, a wrong way and a Pennsy way.
IHC had a plastic version of the PRR Water Bridge, item 5006, marked "new" in the Walthers 1990 catalog, and the price was $8.98. You might recall that at almost the same time as one of the brass importers came out with a magnificent brass model of the UP's 200 ton coaling tower from (I think) Cheyenne Wyoming, IHC came out with a plastic kit for $39.98. It is almost as if their Water Bridge was similarly timed to coincide with an expensive brass version.
A bit of Google searching finds some places that offer the IHC 5006 Water Bridge, and not just Ebay either.
Dave Nelson
Thanks, Dave
It looks as though AHM (IHC) was going head-to-head with the brass importers. This ad reproduced in trainlife shows a comparason to the brass price to the AHM "bargain" price. http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/102/7408/february-1990-page-74
I was raised on AHM (bought the streamlined Hudson at Woolworth's after Christmas for $25.00 in 1972)
I already have the Oregon four track signal bridge and some Tichy water spouts so I'll go that route but the AHM kit looks pretty good!
Take care, Ed
staybolt Ed- Yes, those overhead watering bridges are especially fascinating to me since I'm a steam enthusiast. Never saw any in person, but in Al Staufer's book Pennsy Power there's a photo of one described as being at Latrobe, PA with a class G 4-6-0 passing underneath the bridge and scooping water from a track pan. There were multiple tracks there, so maybe the spouts were positioned over tracks without pans....hard to see in the photo. Also, in the same book in the chapter about class T duplexes there appears to be one of these bridges near Cove, PA (not sure because of partial obscuring by smoke). -Chuck
rbandr-
Hmmm....wonder if those spouts dispensed Rolling Rock instead of plain water....would need less coal to bring it to a boil!
And a mighty fine beer it WAS. I picked up a six pack of R-R a few years ago and it tasted like boiler washout water! Did a little digging and found out that:
From 1939 until July 26, 2006, Rolling Rock was brewed at the Latrobe Brewing Company in the Pittsburgh suburb of Latrobe, Pennsylvania. On May 19, 2006,Anheuser-Busch purchased the Rolling Rock and Rolling Rock Green Light brands from InBev for $82 million and began brewing Rolling Rock at its Newark facility in mid July, 2006. The final batch of Rolling Rock was shipped from Latrobe on July 31, 2006. (From Wikipedia)
I've been to Latrobe on several occasions, Great PRR station there with a huge keystone laid out in the brickwork (I'll try to find a photo) but at that time the brewery was shut down. I believe it has since reopened.
Thanks, Ed
PS> I just saw the obituary for Al Stauffer in the recent Classic Trains. Al was from Medina, Ohio and a prolific author and artist.
At about 6:10 you will see a water and coaling bridge over the PRR at the curve dated around 1900.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UQolfyxbOk
This is some great footage of years gone bye.
Thanks for posting that link and pinpointing the location in the film, Pete! In later years as trains got heavier it was probably a real headache to get your train started again westbound and that really had to tie up traffic on that busy stretch of the Great Broad Way!