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A turntable without a roundhouse...was there ever?

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  • From: Carmichael, CA
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Posted by twhite on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 4:35 PM

markpierce

twhite

Same thing on the NCNG at their other two terminals--Grass Valley and Nevada City.  Turntables but no roundhouses (though there was an engine shed in Grass Valley for some years).   Both were of the 'Armstrong' variety, as was the turntable at Oilville (Colfax).  My buddies and I used to play in the Nevada City turntable pit when we were kids, before it was filled in as a 'hazard', LOL!  

Tom, as I recall, Gerald Best's book shows a single-stall enginehouse at Nevada City and a two-stall enginehouse at Grass Valley which were directly served by their respective turntables althrough the enginehouses were rectangular rather than "round" (e.g. radial).

Mark

Mark: 

Right.  The 2-stall engine house in Grass Valley burned sometime in the mid-thirties and was never rebuilt, as I remember.  Whatever repairs were needed were done at a foundry building in the yards opposite the station.  I'm not sure when the engine house in Nevada City disappeared, but I think that it was some time before the railroad was torn up in 1943, though the storage track near the turntable remained to park the locomotive overnight. 

Though Nevada City was the end terminus of the railroad, the major shops and yards were located in Grass Valley.  Nevada City had oil and water facilities, and of course a turntable and for a while, at least, an enginehouse, but if I remember correctly, that was about it. 

Tom

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Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 4:46 PM

The Santa Maria Valley Railroad has given up its downton locomotive shops/roundhouse and now use this pit at an abandoned sugar mill to do periodic inspections.

 

Mark

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Posted by Alan Robinson on Thursday, November 5, 2009 8:13 PM

jecorbett
As the numerous replies point out, there are many examples of TTs with no roundhouse. I wonder if there were roundhouses with no TTs. Obviously, there could be just a limited number of stalls with that sort of roundhouse, but I suppose it could have been done.

 

Here in Asheville, North Carolina the NS has removed the old Southern RR turntable but retained the roundhouse. Three stalls are still used for engine servicing and are connected with two turnouts to a lead track, the other stalls are still standing but are (presumably) used now for storage.

By the way, for turning in heavy snow country, the balloon track arrangement would often be preferred if there was room because a whole train cound be turned without needing to reverse. This allowed the plough at the front of the train, usually a necessity to buck heavy snow, to always lead the train. A wye would be the second choice and would be used in restricted space, but was more difficult to clear unless the wye was completely covered with snow sheds. An example of this occurred at the summit of the Moffat Road at Corona, Colorado at an elevation of 11,660. The whole station complex including engine coal and watering facilities, station, wye and passing track were all under snowsheds.

Turntables were usually impractical in very heavy snow as the pit would quickly become filled with snow. Some roundhouses in early days when the turntable wasn't very large would cover the whole thing with a roof. Interesting challenge to get rid of the smoke and avoid burning down the wooden structure.

I would suppose if you look long enough you can find an actual application for just about any configuration you can imagine. I sure wouldn't let reality get in the way of my planning. ;-)

Alan Robinson Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted by bennettwoll on Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:08 PM
Alan Robinson
jecorbett
As the numerous replies point out, there are many examples of TTs with no roundhouse. I wonder if there were roundhouses with no TTs. Obviously, there could be just a limited number of stalls with that sort of roundhouse, but I suppose it could have been done.
The San Francisco State Belt Railroad had a five-stall roundhouse with no turntable, only a series of turnouts to select a route. The building is across the street from my house, although converted to office use, and the turnouts are still visible. If you want, I can send you photos of it. Apparently, the steam engines always faced south and had to go to the SP turntable in South San Francisco to be rotated. Later on, there was a wye.
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Posted by ericsp on Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:20 PM

markpierce

The Santa Maria Valley Railroad has given up its downton locomotive shops/roundhouse and now use this pit at an abandoned sugar mill to do periodic inspections.


 

Mark

 

While it is no longer a sugar refinery, the plant is not abandoned.

http://www.smvrr.com/BIP.html 

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

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Posted by bigduke76 on Friday, November 6, 2009 6:43 AM

 in reply to john who knows of a couple of 3-stall radial roundhouses with turnouts, not turntables, i know of two 5-stall radial roundhouses with 3-way turnouts, not turntables.  one was on the calif. state belt ry (now part of the F-line trolley) in san francisco, while the other was at  lillooet BC on the 'please go easy'-'province's greatest expense'-'past god's endurance' - 'prince george eventually' - whatever the PGE initials stood for.   big duke 

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Posted by GeorgeTJM on Friday, November 6, 2009 9:46 AM

At Sandy Hook, NJ, now a National Park, the Sandy Hook Railroad in the 1800s ran halfway up the peninsula to Horseshoe Cove on Raritan Bay. The railroad transported steamboat passengers from North Jersey and Manhattan south to Sea Bright, Monmouth Beach, Long Branch, etc., during the summer months. What makes this an interesting scene is that the railroad extended several tracks a couple of hundred feet westward along a pier into the bay, where the steamships docked. The pilings are still there, tentatively identified by the the park historian. On land, a small turntable was used to turn the engines, next to a small hotel (more like a boarding house). All traces of these facilities, except for the pilings, have long disappeared due to U.S. Army construction during the 20th century. Another interesting fact is that the railroad had to go to Washington to get permission to build on the peninsula, since the land was part of the U.S. Army's Fort Hancock. Abraham Lincoln signed the bill. Later, the southern portion of the trackage through the civilian towns became part of the CNJ's Coast Line, while the trackage on the peninsula was taken over and expanded by the military. All the trackage was abandoned in the 1960s.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, November 6, 2009 10:22 AM

Roundhouse without a turntable?  Rapid City, SD, off Main Street close to South Dakota Tech.  Three stalls, accessed by turnouts.  There used to be a wye some distance to the west, but one leg was abandoned before 1980.  Brought it up on Google Maps - the roundhouse is still there, and the yard appears to be full of idle rolling stock.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by mcalisi on Friday, November 6, 2009 10:26 AM

 I'm not sure if it was suggested, as I didn't read them all, but since you're looking for a place large enough to hold a Big Boy and Challenger, and were considering a two stall engine house co-located with the turntable, is it possible to model the edge of a roundhouse with the rest of it included as part of the backdrop?

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Posted by wccobb on Friday, November 6, 2009 3:36 PM

The old C&NW branch from Batavia, Ill. to Aurora, Ill. had a small turntable in Aurora, no roundhouse.  The crew came from West Chicago, Ill. & went back to West Chicago, Ill. and turned their steam locomotive in Aurora.  Interesting turntable: it was cast iron !!!  A single casting at the center contained the "pivot" (may be called something else) and, as I now recall, four seperate castings were bolted on, two on each "side" to complete the turntable.  Built on the bank of the Fox River, the approach track was at ground level and the "opposite side" of the turntable pit was at "grade level".  The short length of the turntable restricted its use to only the smaller steam locomotives & I'm not sure the branch lasted long enough to "see" diesels.    

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, November 6, 2009 3:58 PM

On the other hand, for a bit of "overkill", St.Paul Union Depot Railway Company's roundhouse and turntable were located inside of the wye just to the east of the depot. Two ways to turn around!

 Smile

Stix
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Posted by Gil Janus on Friday, November 6, 2009 5:06 PM

And for some more overkill, the PRR when it constructed the Sunnyside Yard complex in Queens for the support of the new Penn Station, they had 2 turntables built - even though there was an entire 3-track loop for turning trains completely.

One turntable was located near the east-end of the passenger yard. It disappeared when the large Railway Express building was built.

The other turntable was located at the east end of the yard up by the LIRR and NYCR tracks. It was most likely used to turn NH steam engines also, before the overhead wires were erected by the PRR, the NH and the jointly owned NY Connecting Railroad (NYCR). It was also used to turn the wreak train equipment. I don't know when that one disappeared - but most likely after the catenary was constructed in 1918.

Gil

Where ever you go, there you are !

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Posted by espeefoamer on Saturday, November 7, 2009 1:27 AM

There is a turntable at Laws,CA. on the SP narrow gauge line from Keeler. The turntable, along with 2-6-0 #9 and some freight cars, the station and a few buildings are preserved here.

Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
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Posted by Flashwave on Saturday, November 7, 2009 3:54 PM

dehusman

Classic model railroad thought is that a turntable requires a round house.  A roundhouse is a maintenance facility for locomotives.  A turntable is a way to turn a locomotive.  They do not have to occur together.  You can have a maintenance facility without a turntable or you can have a turntable without a maintenance facility.  People waste a lot space putting in huge roundhouses when what they really need is just a turntable.

True on all counts, vut for larger roundhouses, a turntable seems like n easier way to get into the house than a 7ganger switch

-Morgan

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