Well after many months of thinking dreaming and planning, I'm now building. I want to go with a DCC system but after reading all the literature I'm as confused as ever about which brand is the best value. It seems that the magazines and their respective publishing companies are hedging their bets by not rank ordering the various systems out there for fear of losing ad revenue - understandable. But, that leaves me a bit in the dark.
I am building a smallish N Scale system with less than 150 feet of track. I don't expect to run more than four trains at a time, plus accessories and switch machines.
Now for a little poll. Would you please let me know what your favorite system is and if, in your view it will serve my needs. Any and all inputs will be greatly parachuted
Thanks,
David
http://www.tonystrains.com/
You should check out this site. It has comparisons, FAQ's and just about all you'll need to make an informed choice.
Hi David, the hobby press does not really rank anything so DCC is no different in that respect. Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, MRC, CVP and others make systems that will meet the needs of your layout and do it well. They all make great systems and you would not be going wrong with any of them. What you will get in response to a question like this is lots of personal preference. I happen to use and like Digitrax, others use and prefer NCE etc. etc.
Most all the starter systems like the Digitrax Zephyr, the NCE PowerCab, the MRC Prodigy express will run the 4 locos that you plan. What will differentiate one system from another is the look and feel of the user interface. You might have a predisposition to one style over another.
I would suggest if possible you try and run a system locally, either at an LHS or a club, just to get the feel. Also think about futures. Do you want to be able to hook up a PC for programming decoders or perhaps controlling switch machines etc.
At the end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices.
There have been regular threads on this subject like this one for example
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1150146/ShowPost.aspx
If you are looking for one brand or model that stands head-and-shoulders above the rest, there really is not one. Each system has its own quirks and nuances, each manufacturer has its fans.
Tony's is a good site with lots of information but be aware that a lot of it is a little dated. The DCC comparison here http://www.tonystrains.com/productcompare/offthecuff.htm is about 2 years old and does not include the new NCE Power Cab or the latest MRC offerings, both of which are worthy of your consideration.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Ditto to what you wrote Simon, this is exactly how I feel about every DCC systems out there.
Jack W.
And another voice supporting Simon's opinion. The systems available today are all pretty good, with the possible exceptions of the real bottom-of-the-barrel systems which have only limited capabilities. All of the ones listed above are fine, though.
Yes, the hand-held throttle should be a big factor in what you buy. It's how you will deal with your layout. Unfortunately, throttles are not interchangeable between systems, so if you like the Lenz throttle, you'd better buy a Lenz system, because you can't plug it into a Digitrax control bus.
The good news is that you're almost certain to be happy with whatever you get. DCC is just that much fun. When I ran my first DCC train, suddenly I was 12 years old again. The last time that happened, the guy in the White House was named Eisenhower. Since then, I've gotten an even bigger kick out of adding sound to my locomotive fleet. Back in the 1500's, an explorer name Ponce de Leon searched Florida for the Fountain of Youth. He never found it, but if you're interested, check out your LHS.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Probably no one is going to tell you which one is Best as they will probably be blamed if it does not work out for you. The best is what works for you. You will have to look around and make the Final decision. It may be a little dificult if there are no LHSs near you.
I use the NCE Power Cab, $140 plus shipping (online store) and it does everything I want it to on my own HO layout which is about 10 feet by 22 feet. and three engines at most, I Try to run at one time. I also run sound.
Yahoo groups has a good NCE DCC group.
I understand Digitrax has a starter system. Yahoo also has a good Digitrax DCC group. Both groups have a lot of information.
Tony's Trains has a lot of good information. http://www.tonystrains.com/
Trains.com is ok but do not limit yourself to just this group. You will miss a lot of information concerning DCC.
The below link is slanted toward NCE and Soundtraxx decoders but there is a lot of general DCC info.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/index.htm
What ever system you get, Read the manual First, at least three times.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The last time I ran trains was when I was a kid. Last summer, I took my son to the state fair where the local club had a huge layout running. I noticed multiple engines running on the same line which didn't compute from My days running trains. I then noticed signs saying they use "Digitrax DCC" - so I went home and discovered the world of DCC.
Needless to say we now have a DCC layout and are working on expanding it. I reviewed several DCC options - but for me personally it pretty much came down to "if its good enough for the local club, it should work for me". We have a Digitrax Zephyr (their entry system) and we love it. But from everything I've read - you really can't go wrong with any system. Look for the kind of controls you want, and then have fun!
Use the Digitrax Zephyr. It is a nice little system but you might want to try out different systems availible first before committing.
If you happen to come across my other postings ignore my huge system and BIG power supply.. there is no need for such monsters on your railroad. In fact Im wondering what I am doing with such a monster feeding a 7 foot shelf at this moment. But am glad I have it because I buy systems once every 30 years and dont want to ever have to upgrade into the space I know I will be building at some point in the future.
Go wireless. You will love it.
Ralph
Amargosa Railroad
David,
In addition to going to some of the websites that others are already posted to look at the comparisons and descriptions of each systems go to each manufacturers' website and read through the manuals for the systems you're considering. The other comments about trying out various systems is good, but don't let that limit your choice. I purchased my system, approx $500, without ever seeing it in person or trying it out and I've never regretted the purchase.
When reading through the manuals consider how easy it is to read and understand, even without having the system in front of you. That's how I decided.
Also consider the user interface - handheld throttle, table top unit etc.- because this is how you use the system. If its difficult to use or understand, you won't enjoy it. Remember that for the most any system will be able to run the layout you've described, the difference between them will be how you interact with it and how easy you perceive it is to use.
jktrains
There have been a lot of good posts for you to consider. The thing is that many of us are unique in how we are going to run our railroad so you really have to try to translate all of the advice into how you plan to do it.
When you first start out you often don't really know how you are going to eventually want to do things. So, getting a good quality, expandable starter system will allow future changes in direction. The lowest priced set may not be what will best serve you in the long run.
A few additional items to consider are:
1. Will you operate from a fixed location or would it be better for you to have a tethered throttle that will allow you to walk 6 or 7 feet in any direction, or maybe even have plug-in stations at various points so you can walk all around your layout and operate turnouts, couple and uncouple cars, etc. The answer to this question might determine which starter system would be a good one to start with.
2. Maybe you will later decide that a wireless throttle is what really works for you. That's what happened to me. When I started in DCC I never even thought about wireless but now I've grown to love it. To get it I had spend a lot more because my system (as good as it is) doesn't offer an economical upgrate path to wireless. Some systems have great upgrade paths with little or no cost penalty.
3. And of course your budget will play a big part in what you can do initially.
You're going to love DCC. Just take your time and don't hesitate to keep asking questions. Many on this forum are highly qualified to help you.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Friends,
Thanks for your counsel. I appreachiate your thoughtful replys. I'm now planning to make a trip to my LHS, which isn't all that L, being some 2 1/2 hours distant. But the trip sounds like it will be worth while as I will be able to get some hands on feeling for what works for me.
I read, with interest, the Recommended site: Tony's Train Exchange. Thanks Simon for that reference. I think, based on that reading, that I'm looking to move toward a Zepher or the MRC unit. I actually like the MRC better at least on paper. But either sounds like it'll do the job.
I just got the new MR. Take a look at the MRC ad on the back cover. Prodigy Advance Wireless. Full two way communication. Read the ad - nice little jab at Digitrax. Digitrax needs to get on the ball, spend some R&D money and build a 2 way radio system or they risk being left behind. Truth be told, they already have the poorest written documentation of the major brands, hand helds are not as user friendly as the others, their signalling system looks to be outdone by Atlas, and now MRC (with has deeper pockets) has got them beat with their wireless system. No price is listed, but read the features:
No more needing to remember to turn off the throttle and remove the battery. No more wondering if the battery will last through a session.
JK you are right about MRC they certainly, on paper at least, seem like they have their act together. I hope that this is not another example of DCC product being announced far in advance of its real availability? If it performs as advertised then it will be a very viable competitor. The things that are not said, will in the end contribute greatly to its success or not.
1. How well does the radio perform in practice?
Will they have coverage issues like NCE did when it first came out with Duplex radio? Will there be any response time issues with the radio response to commands? How will the system work with multiple wireless throttles in action at once.
2. Will there be issue with the rechargeable battery?
How long will they last in real use between re-charge? Will the quoted 5 hour re-charge time be an issue for users if the battery runs out during a session? What happens when the battery eventually dies which it will, will it be user replaceable? Will it be proprietary?
MRC does seem to have the ability to develop things quickly, but they have also had several false starts including DCC systems and a range of decoders and sound decoders that are universally reviled. It will be very interesting to see some real reviews of this system with some real-life testing.
Did you read the "Subscribers special content" review on the MRR web site? What a worthless un-informative review that was. It did not say anything that was not already in the ad!
I also agree with you about Digitrax, they are in grave danger of getting left behind if they don't soon respond to the current trends. It has been hinted that we "won't be disappointed at announcements made at the NMRA next month" we shall see. It is interesting that MRC are making hits at Digitrax in their advert as their product and the NCE products are so similar in look and feel that you would have thought that they would try and differentiate more from NCE?
David, if you drive more than 2 hours to a LHS, you should look up any club in your area, and see if any of them use DCC. I worked with a local club to see if I wanted to do DCC and the fun the club had and the learning and training available from other members helped a whole lot in getting the hang of it.
As stated earlier, look at now and in the future. Some starter sets wont grow with you. Don't get stuck with one system now and end up replaceing it in the future as things in the industry change qucikly and you may want to grow with it.
Kurt
I agree with both JK and Simon, Digitrax will be loosing it, if they don't follow current trends soon. I will be at the Detroit NMRA show and will be asking questions.
Not that I need/wants Duplex communications or 28 functions, I guess one don't miss what he does not know about, I whish Digitrax finally follow NCE sofware upgradable path.
jk-The MRC wireless is being advertised for around $600. You can upgrade a standard PA to wireless for $290.
http://www.modelrectifier.com/search/advanced-search-results.asp?Category=TRAIN%20CONTROLS&SubCategory=DCC
It doesn't look like they're even making the PA anymore with the PA squared coming out.
At that price is would be comparable to a NCE PHP radio system.
Jack - I agree with you. Digitrax seems to be loosing their edge and could soon find themselves behind the other main competitors. I mean think about, limited radio capabilities, no ability to upgrade software, no full 28 functions, poor documentation. These are all things done better by the competition.
JK, the reality is that these things are cyclical. One company jumps ahead with innovations, others eventually catch up and move into the lead for a while. Digitrax has always been one of the leading edge innovators in this field. They were the leaders with wireless for some time, they were the first to come out with a truly expandable starter system by several years, they were the first to innovate with integrated transponding and signalling systems. It has only been in the last year or so that companies like NCE have introduced competing products. When one considers the age of the Chief and the Zephyr (What is it, a decade for the Chief and 7 yrs for the Zephyr) it is a testament to Digitrax innovation that they are still excellent competitive systems that stand comparison to other much newer products on the market. Even the much maligned documentation is much improved. Having read both the Zephyr and the Power Cab manual I would say that there really is not much to choose between the two.
So for the time being if you are in the market for a wireless control system, or if you are hooked on functions above 12 then the competition looks good. Outside of that the Digitrax product line continues to be very strong and in some cases offers features that have not yet been matched by the competition.
As I said above, I think that Digitrax does need to come out with some new features for their command stations. It will be interesting to see how and when they respond.
Simon,
Correct, there is cyclical nature to innovation. While the Chief and Zephyr may well be 7-10 years old so is my NCE PHP. But since I purchased it in 1998, I've upgraded the eprom twice to keep the system up to date with technological changes in standards.
Am I the only one who sees some irony in Digitrax producing a line of sound decoders, and apparently developing the nex gen of sound decoder, yet none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder. It just seems odd.
The one thing that can be hoped for is that the competition results in a better from all manufacturers.
jktrains wrote: Am I the only one who sees some irony in Digitrax producing a line of sound decoders, and apparently developing the nex gen of sound decoder, yet none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder. It just seems odd.
Rather than ironic it is more likely a good indicator of what is coming down the pike. Clearly development effort at D has been on the new sound decoders in recent months. D has already stated that F13 and up will be supported in 2007. I suspect we will know more before next month is over.
The bottom line is that Digitrax makes a very good product - albeit decoders or DCC systems. Even though I am an "NCE guy", I do like and respect what Digitrax has done.
This back and forth between competing DCC companies always means that there will be improvements and innovations to better the product and make the hobby more enjoyable for us all. I see this as a good and healthy thing.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Do you want to run DC locomotives?
If so, then it is Bachmann EZCommand or Digitrax. And the Bachmann has no wireless throttle (although it does have multiple throttle capability).
Also, there is a system called EasyDCC. It has wireless throttles also. I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
davidmbedard wrote: On a side note, i've got my SFX decoders programmed for simplicity. I have chosen to only use the first eight function buttons. I believe that using all twenty-eight function buttons is really just a gimmik that wares in a few days. I dont need to hear the toilet seat in the cab slamming down, as an example. My SFX decoders are set up to utilize the Digitrax UT4 button layout. What other decoder companies will allow you to program theie decoders on the basic control level?David B
On a side note, i've got my SFX decoders programmed for simplicity. I have chosen to only use the first eight function buttons. I believe that using all twenty-eight function buttons is really just a gimmik that wares in a few days. I dont need to hear the toilet seat in the cab slamming down, as an example. My SFX decoders are set up to utilize the Digitrax UT4 button layout. What other decoder companies will allow you to program theie decoders on the basic control level?
David B
OUTSTANDING!
davidmbedard wrote: CSX Robert wrote:jktrains,Digitrax sound decoders do not use functions above F12(at least not yet) so I don't understand your statement that "none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder."Wrong, SFX decoders support up to F28....
CSX Robert wrote:jktrains,Digitrax sound decoders do not use functions above F12(at least not yet) so I don't understand your statement that "none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder."
pilot wrote:Do you want to run DC locomotives?If so, then it is Bachmann EZCommand or Digitrax. And the Bachmann has no wireless throttle (although it does have multiple throttle capability).Also, there is a system called EasyDCC. It has wireless throttles also. I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman wrote:Lots of good advice here. Beware of one thing, though. The Digitrax Zephyr, which I have, is a great system but you may have problems running switches and accesories of of it. I won't, I'm in themiddle of buidling my layout, because I am going to operate the switches and accesories off another power pack. The Zephyr will easily handle your four locomotives, but depending on the draw of the switches and accesories, the 2.5 amps may not be enough. I suspect a starter system will be sufficient for your needs, since they are all expandable in case you decide to upgarde in the future. The big thing to remember is that once you buy a particular brand, then you are committed to that brand as another post has indicated.
One person I know of runs his switches off a seperate digitrax power supply.
I have sufficient power availible to create a seperate power bus for my switches and accessories.
The Loconet allows expansion in a number of ways including additional boosters fed by thier own power.