For a small layout or even a medium sized, The old Atlas Commander (aka Lenz Compact) is a good choice with out a hard learning curve. That's what I started with then moved to the Lenz Set-90. But from what I've heard the Commander is not available anymore I'm not sure about the Compact.. So your next best pick would be a DigiTrax Zypher. The down side of it is a steaper learning curve..
david.provost wrote: Well after many months of thinking dreaming and planning, I'm now building. I want to go with a DCC system but after reading all the literature I'm as confused as ever about which brand is the best value. It seems that the magazines and their respective publishing companies are hedging their bets by not rank ordering the various systems out there for fear of losing ad revenue - understandable. But, that leaves me a bit in the dark.I am building a smallish N Scale system with less than 150 feet of track. I don't expect to run more than four trains at a time, plus accessories and switch machines. Now for a little poll. Would you please let me know what your favorite system is and if, in your view it will serve my needs. Any and all inputs will be greatly parachutedThanks,David
Well after many months of thinking dreaming and planning, I'm now building. I want to go with a DCC system but after reading all the literature I'm as confused as ever about which brand is the best value. It seems that the magazines and their respective publishing companies are hedging their bets by not rank ordering the various systems out there for fear of losing ad revenue - understandable. But, that leaves me a bit in the dark.
I am building a smallish N Scale system with less than 150 feet of track. I don't expect to run more than four trains at a time, plus accessories and switch machines.
Now for a little poll. Would you please let me know what your favorite system is and if, in your view it will serve my needs. Any and all inputs will be greatly parachuted
Thanks,
David
I just got an MRC Prodigy Advance and am extremely pleased with it. Your layout sounds more or less like the one my son and I are using this on.
And fwiw, after looking at various systems manuals before I purchased this one, I'd give the MRC manual an easy "win" in the best written, easy to understand catagory.
Gandy Dancer wrote: I don't like the hammer-head master control unit. At the club we joke about being able to spot those with NCE. They have the large muscles in their left arm from holding the thing.
I don't like the hammer-head master control unit. At the club we joke about being able to spot those with NCE. They have the large muscles in their left arm from holding the thing.
That thin rocky mountain air must'a sapped you boys' strength! My radio NCE hammerhead weighs less than 10 ounces with batteries and antenna. I hope none of you club members heft any full soda cans -- might be too much for the poor dears.
Gandy Dancer wrote:4. 4th favorite - NCE Pro...I don't like the hammer-head master control unit. At the club we joke about being able to spot those with NCE. They have the large muscles in their left arm from holding the thing. Add three utility throttles and it would be great for your layout, add four and one wouldn't have to lug around the big guy.
Gandy,
I don't know about the NCE throttle you used. My Power Cab throttle (same outer dimensions as the ProCab) is very comfortable to hold and not heavy at all. I don't even lift weights either.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
david.provost wrote: ...which brand is the best value. as soon as there is a "value" in the question it get complicated. Best value for me might not be best value for you.
david.provost wrote: ...which brand is the best value.
I don't expect to run more than four trains at a time, plus accessories and switch machines.I know you didn't ask but I unless you are doing routing control I don't recommend using DCC for the switch machines. Do a search and read some recent threads posted here on that topic.
I don't expect to run more than four trains at a time, plus accessories and switch machines.
Now for a little poll. Would you please let me know what your favorite system is and if, in your view it will serve my needs.1. My favorite system - CVP Easy DCC. Why - panel mounted master control unit with two embedded throttles. Add two throttles and it would definitely work for your layout.2. 2nd favorite - Digitrax Zephyr. Why - panel mounted master control unit, with one throttle. It is self contained and easily expandable to any other Digitrax products. I don't like how flimsy the construction is. I don't like the Digitrax Wireless solution. Add three throttles and it would definitely work for your layout.3. 3rd favorite - Lenz. Why - best mix of easy to use and functionality. I have expanded mine using the CVP wireless throttles. Add three throttles and it will easily work for your layout. 4. 4th favorite - NCE Pro. Why - excellent support, high quality DCC signal to the track. I use primarily NCE decoders in my locomotives. I don't like the hammer-head master control unit. At the club we joke about being able to spot those with NCE. They have the large muscles in their left arm from holding the thing. Add three utility throttles and it would be great for your layout, add four and one wouldn't have to lug around the big guy.
Now for a little poll. Would you please let me know what your favorite system is and if, in your view it will serve my needs.
I cannot comment on the Zimo, Roco, higher end Digitrax, MRC Prodigy, Atlas Commander, or Bachman systems because I have not used them. So their position in a list is unknown.
Notes.
1. My primary system is a Lenz, I also have a Zephyr, and some old MRC 2000s.
2. Above I say, "add x number of throttles" because I personally hate hunting through a stack for a locomotive. If I have a train running I want a throttle connected to it at all times. Switching the throttle back and forth between channels is more like playing a video game than running trains.
We totally got out of the Retail battery market in College. We bought three Recharging stations from Rayovac and a bunch of AA, AAA etc and kept a box full ready to go. Other than replacing a failed battery (Overuse) once in a while we literally saved hundreds against the old throw away batteries.
We estimate out of the box we have about 60 pairs of each type ready to go and it will take us a very long time to run them down if ever.
pilot wrote:snip I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
Nope. Once you clear the short, everything resumes operating normally, both tethered and radio- there's no need to plug the throttle back in.
The only time you need to plug a throttle in is to select a new locomotive on the throttle or to "dispatch" one off of it.
I'm curious about your statement that Digitrax radio throttles eating batteries. We run five-hour operating sessions with ours, and only have to replace batteries every five or six sessions. If you use the UT4R throttles which don't have displays, the batteries can last even longer, since they only use power when transmitting commands.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
YOu might want to consider the Chief, 5 amps of power and a DT 400 throttle. There is a kind of smoothness to the engine's response to the throttle knob of the DT400 which I find better than that of the Zephyr. I may have an oppertunity to verify this sometime in July.
Whatever system you consider, try to physically operate it somewhere before you commit to buying. You are going to be either loving it or hating it for a very long time.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
bearman wrote:Lots of good advice here. Beware of one thing, though. The Digitrax Zephyr, which I have, is a great system but you may have problems running switches and accesories of of it. I won't, I'm in themiddle of buidling my layout, because I am going to operate the switches and accesories off another power pack. The Zephyr will easily handle your four locomotives, but depending on the draw of the switches and accesories, the 2.5 amps may not be enough. I suspect a starter system will be sufficient for your needs, since they are all expandable in case you decide to upgarde in the future. The big thing to remember is that once you buy a particular brand, then you are committed to that brand as another post has indicated.
One person I know of runs his switches off a seperate digitrax power supply.
I have sufficient power availible to create a seperate power bus for my switches and accessories.
The Loconet allows expansion in a number of ways including additional boosters fed by thier own power.
davidmbedard wrote: CSX Robert wrote:jktrains,Digitrax sound decoders do not use functions above F12(at least not yet) so I don't understand your statement that "none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder."Wrong, SFX decoders support up to F28....
CSX Robert wrote:jktrains,Digitrax sound decoders do not use functions above F12(at least not yet) so I don't understand your statement that "none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder."
pilot wrote:Do you want to run DC locomotives?If so, then it is Bachmann EZCommand or Digitrax. And the Bachmann has no wireless throttle (although it does have multiple throttle capability).Also, there is a system called EasyDCC. It has wireless throttles also. I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
davidmbedard wrote: On a side note, i've got my SFX decoders programmed for simplicity. I have chosen to only use the first eight function buttons. I believe that using all twenty-eight function buttons is really just a gimmik that wares in a few days. I dont need to hear the toilet seat in the cab slamming down, as an example. My SFX decoders are set up to utilize the Digitrax UT4 button layout. What other decoder companies will allow you to program theie decoders on the basic control level?David B
On a side note, i've got my SFX decoders programmed for simplicity. I have chosen to only use the first eight function buttons. I believe that using all twenty-eight function buttons is really just a gimmik that wares in a few days. I dont need to hear the toilet seat in the cab slamming down, as an example. My SFX decoders are set up to utilize the Digitrax UT4 button layout. What other decoder companies will allow you to program theie decoders on the basic control level?
David B
OUTSTANDING!
Do you want to run DC locomotives?
If so, then it is Bachmann EZCommand or Digitrax. And the Bachmann has no wireless throttle (although it does have multiple throttle capability).
Also, there is a system called EasyDCC. It has wireless throttles also. I agree Digitrax wireless is less than ideal. It eats batteries and is one way only. You short out on a turnout and you have to go and plug in to re-aquire the locomotive, right?
The bottom line is that Digitrax makes a very good product - albeit decoders or DCC systems. Even though I am an "NCE guy", I do like and respect what Digitrax has done.
This back and forth between competing DCC companies always means that there will be improvements and innovations to better the product and make the hobby more enjoyable for us all. I see this as a good and healthy thing.
jktrains wrote: Am I the only one who sees some irony in Digitrax producing a line of sound decoders, and apparently developing the nex gen of sound decoder, yet none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder. It just seems odd.
Am I the only one who sees some irony in Digitrax producing a line of sound decoders, and apparently developing the nex gen of sound decoder, yet none of their systems have the ability to access all the functions on their own decoder. It just seems odd.
Rather than ironic it is more likely a good indicator of what is coming down the pike. Clearly development effort at D has been on the new sound decoders in recent months. D has already stated that F13 and up will be supported in 2007. I suspect we will know more before next month is over.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Simon,
Correct, there is cyclical nature to innovation. While the Chief and Zephyr may well be 7-10 years old so is my NCE PHP. But since I purchased it in 1998, I've upgraded the eprom twice to keep the system up to date with technological changes in standards.
David,
The one thing that can be hoped for is that the competition results in a better from all manufacturers.
jktrains
JK, the reality is that these things are cyclical. One company jumps ahead with innovations, others eventually catch up and move into the lead for a while. Digitrax has always been one of the leading edge innovators in this field. They were the leaders with wireless for some time, they were the first to come out with a truly expandable starter system by several years, they were the first to innovate with integrated transponding and signalling systems. It has only been in the last year or so that companies like NCE have introduced competing products. When one considers the age of the Chief and the Zephyr (What is it, a decade for the Chief and 7 yrs for the Zephyr) it is a testament to Digitrax innovation that they are still excellent competitive systems that stand comparison to other much newer products on the market. Even the much maligned documentation is much improved. Having read both the Zephyr and the Power Cab manual I would say that there really is not much to choose between the two.
So for the time being if you are in the market for a wireless control system, or if you are hooked on functions above 12 then the competition looks good. Outside of that the Digitrax product line continues to be very strong and in some cases offers features that have not yet been matched by the competition.
As I said above, I think that Digitrax does need to come out with some new features for their command stations. It will be interesting to see how and when they respond.
At that price is would be comparable to a NCE PHP radio system.
Jack - I agree with you. Digitrax seems to be loosing their edge and could soon find themselves behind the other main competitors. I mean think about, limited radio capabilities, no ability to upgrade software, no full 28 functions, poor documentation. These are all things done better by the competition.
jk-The MRC wireless is being advertised for around $600. You can upgrade a standard PA to wireless for $290.
http://www.modelrectifier.com/search/advanced-search-results.asp?Category=TRAIN%20CONTROLS&SubCategory=DCC
It doesn't look like they're even making the PA anymore with the PA squared coming out.
I agree with both JK and Simon, Digitrax will be loosing it, if they don't follow current trends soon. I will be at the Detroit NMRA show and will be asking questions.
Not that I need/wants Duplex communications or 28 functions, I guess one don't miss what he does not know about, I whish Digitrax finally follow NCE sofware upgradable path.
Jack W.
David, if you drive more than 2 hours to a LHS, you should look up any club in your area, and see if any of them use DCC. I worked with a local club to see if I wanted to do DCC and the fun the club had and the learning and training available from other members helped a whole lot in getting the hang of it.
As stated earlier, look at now and in the future. Some starter sets wont grow with you. Don't get stuck with one system now and end up replaceing it in the future as things in the industry change qucikly and you may want to grow with it.
Kurt
JK you are right about MRC they certainly, on paper at least, seem like they have their act together. I hope that this is not another example of DCC product being announced far in advance of its real availability? If it performs as advertised then it will be a very viable competitor. The things that are not said, will in the end contribute greatly to its success or not.
1. How well does the radio perform in practice?
Will they have coverage issues like NCE did when it first came out with Duplex radio? Will there be any response time issues with the radio response to commands? How will the system work with multiple wireless throttles in action at once.
2. Will there be issue with the rechargeable battery?
How long will they last in real use between re-charge? Will the quoted 5 hour re-charge time be an issue for users if the battery runs out during a session? What happens when the battery eventually dies which it will, will it be user replaceable? Will it be proprietary?
MRC does seem to have the ability to develop things quickly, but they have also had several false starts including DCC systems and a range of decoders and sound decoders that are universally reviled. It will be very interesting to see some real reviews of this system with some real-life testing.
Did you read the "Subscribers special content" review on the MRR web site? What a worthless un-informative review that was. It did not say anything that was not already in the ad!
I also agree with you about Digitrax, they are in grave danger of getting left behind if they don't soon respond to the current trends. It has been hinted that we "won't be disappointed at announcements made at the NMRA next month" we shall see. It is interesting that MRC are making hits at Digitrax in their advert as their product and the NCE products are so similar in look and feel that you would have thought that they would try and differentiate more from NCE?
I just got the new MR. Take a look at the MRC ad on the back cover. Prodigy Advance Wireless. Full two way communication. Read the ad - nice little jab at Digitrax. Digitrax needs to get on the ball, spend some R&D money and build a 2 way radio system or they risk being left behind. Truth be told, they already have the poorest written documentation of the major brands, hand helds are not as user friendly as the others, their signalling system looks to be outdone by Atlas, and now MRC (with has deeper pockets) has got them beat with their wireless system. No price is listed, but read the features:
No more needing to remember to turn off the throttle and remove the battery. No more wondering if the battery will last through a session.
Friends,
Thanks for your counsel. I appreachiate your thoughtful replys. I'm now planning to make a trip to my LHS, which isn't all that L, being some 2 1/2 hours distant. But the trip sounds like it will be worth while as I will be able to get some hands on feeling for what works for me.
I read, with interest, the Recommended site: Tony's Train Exchange. Thanks Simon for that reference. I think, based on that reading, that I'm looking to move toward a Zepher or the MRC unit. I actually like the MRC better at least on paper. But either sounds like it'll do the job.