Another Track planning Newbie

[Anonymous]

I am sure you all are swamped by such questions so here is my opening apology for posting -yet- another. [;)]

But here we go... I am having a devil of a time coming up with any track plan at all, I'm completely lost on the whole operations idea and after several days now of banging my head on this thing Im still no where.

What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, between California and Texas.. The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout..
Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Now you'd think that being able to come up all that and set in such knowledge the old man would be able to draw up some track plan... you'd think [xx(]

yet here I am surrounded by crumpled up paper and far too many browser windows open on the computer and completly lost...

-Any- help would be greatly and enthusiasticly appreciated!

Peace.

Coyote

[SpaceMouse]

Hi,

I know how you feel. What would you like to see in a layout? What are your limitations besides space? Answering these two question will go a long way to getting you started. What types of things interest you? Scenery? Operations? Switching? Yard work? Do you like operating alone or with other people?

Although it is not the easiest book to read "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" is a good place to start. Since you have era and prototype in mind, the next step is identifying the type of layout you want and the features you want to include. In the book you will learn about schematics and the schematics will go a long way in determining the form the layout takes.

[Anonymous]

Coyote...

While 20x19 is a great space, and while you can double or triple-deck your layout to gain maximum advantage, modelling 4 states even with selective compression will be a challenge.

Take a look at specific locations along the line. If you are into operations, you'll want to focus on the industries and other opportunities for ops that interest you. Create a series of "scenes" from along the line that really appeal to you. This may require more research...!

Once you have the "destinations" set, then you can begin to string them together with the scenes from (up to) the 4 states that you want to model - a famous cut, bridge, etc.

If you really want to try to make the distances feel big, but do not want to have to build huge amounts of benchwork, try a twice (or three times) around. Put one or two towns on each loop. Disguise the "repetition" by having the track pass towns on a different elevation, or in a tunnel, or hidden behind a backdrop some of the time. (you will need some tricks like this, as once around a 20x19 room is really only about one scale mile). Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions (Great Model Railroads or Model Railroad Planning) a few years ago. Very effective.

Good luck with your planning!

Andrew

[selector]

I couldn't agree more with the above. My way of looking at it is this: if you have had it up the the eyeballs trying to come up with your own plan, then go to someon else's. Why reinvent the wheel if it is going to be such a chore for you, and if you feel you run the risk of building something that ends up second-rate if you presist?

I went throught that, and my layout is self-rated at three stars out of five. Not bad for a first one, but hardly a keeper. Still, I wanted to design my own...and darned if I didn't get it. [%-)]

If you are hell-bent on doing it all yourself, Coyote, then welcome to the club of the determined. But as the others have stated, maybe it is time to put pencil to paper with a list of will-haves, a list of really-great-to-haves, and a list of will-fit-it-in-to-my-next-layout.

Keep your initial plan simple. Identify two will-haves, and build a track plan. Then add another item, and play with the plan. VERY IMPORTANT- use all of your available space each time you do this. Corner-to-corner; hills, water courses, bridges, turnouts.

You will eventually have the 'good-enough' solution when you jump up and run to She to show her that you have it at last. Get material and hammer...[:D]

[Medina1128]

I downloaded RTS (Right Track System) from http://www.atlasrr.com (it's free). And I played around with it until I had what I wanted. Granted, the maximum radius for their library is 24", but with a little practice, it's fairly easy to insert a wider radius curve using flextrack. The program is real easy to use, you only need one window open and you waste a lot less paper.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Hi,
I know how you feel. What would you like to see in a layout? What are your limitations besides space? Answering these two question will go a long way to getting you started. What types of things interest you? Scenery? Operations? Switching? Yard work? Do you like operating alone or with other people?

Although it is not the easiest book to read "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" is a good place to start. Since you have era and prototype in mind, the next step is identifying the type of layout you want and the features you want to include. In the book you will learn about schematics and the schematics will go a long way in determining the form the layout takes.

Howdy SpaceMouse.

I'm very intrested in Scenery since Im trying to capture not just the fun Rail but also the fun of Route 66 running by it, so Structures and Scenery are my main instrests, although, the Ol is a little more intrested in Operation... the layout will primarily be for the Ol and myself as we dont know anyone in around us that is into MRing.

Yes its not an easy read at all! LOL I bought "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and Im about 4/5ths through it although it makes me feel like I should read it about 3 more time. *chuckles* So far its left me a bit boggled.

Thanks for the info SpaceMouse every bit is great help.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Coyote...

While 20x19 is a great space, and while you can double or triple-deck your layout to gain maximum advantage, modelling 4 states even with selective compression will be a challenge.

Take a look at specific locations along the line. If you are into operations, you'll want to focus on the industries and other opportunities for ops that interest you. Create a series of "scenes" from along the line that really appeal to you. This may require more research...!

Once you have the "destinations" set, then you can begin to string them together with the scenes from (up to) the 4 states that you want to model - a famous cut, bridge, etc.

If you really want to try to make the distances feel big, but do not want to have to build huge amounts of benchwork, try a twice (or three times) around. Put one or two towns on each loop. Disguise the "repetition" by having the track pass towns on a different elevation, or in a tunnel, or hidden behind a backdrop some of the time. (you will need some tricks like this, as once around a 20x19 room is really only about one scale mile). Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions (Great Model Railroads or Model Railroad Planning) a few years ago. Very effective.

Good luck with your planning!

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for all the excellant advice it is great help and helped put my mind in a better direction, I think.

Going to show my ignorance here, which is easy for me to do [;)] but what exactly do you mean by "a twice (or three times) around", Im not sure I follow.

Thanks again.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I couldn't agree more with the above. My way of looking at it is this: if you have had it up the the eyeballs trying to come up with your own plan, then go to someon else's. Why reinvent the wheel if it is going to be such a chore for you, and if you feel you run the risk of building something that ends up second-rate if you presist?

I went throught that, and my layout is self-rated at three stars out of five. Not bad for a first one, but hardly a keeper. Still, I wanted to design my own...and darned if I didn't get it. [%-)]

If you are hell-bent on doing it all yourself, Coyote, then welcome to the club of the determined. But as the others have stated, maybe it is time to put pencil to paper with a list of will-haves, a list of really-great-to-haves, and a list of will-fit-it-in-to-my-next-layout.

Keep your initial plan simple. Identify two will-haves, and build a track plan. Then add another item, and play with the plan. VERY IMPORTANT- use all of your available space each time you do this. Corner-to-corner; hills, water courses, bridges, turnouts.

You will eventually have the 'good-enough' solution when you jump up and run to She to show her that you have it at last. Get material and hammer...[:D]

Thanks selector, you always have clear and finely put advice I appreciate it all, its all ingrediants for the gumbo pot, throw it all in and let it cook in my head and something good will come of it.

I agree with you 100% on the re-invention of the wheel, I dont mind using something someone else has has the skill and creativity to make before me, assuming its open for anyone to use. I think I'd prefer to go with something trusted and maybe just add a few of my own touches here and there since I admit freely I am in the "club of the determined" but I have just enough wisdom to learn from otehrs first.. Although I'm sure the Ol would disagree LOL.. Don't even ask her about a certain plumbling incident some years back.. LOL [;)]

Thanks for the great input.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

I downloaded RTS (Right Track System) from http://www.atlasrr.com (it's free). And I played around with it until I had what I wanted. Granted, the maximum radius for their library is 24", but with a little practice, it's fairly easy to insert a wider radius curve using flextrack. The program is real easy to use, you only need one window open and you waste a lot less paper.

Hi Medina,

Yes! I got RTS about 2 months ago when this 'crazy' idea started taking root, love that program its god send.

Thanks for the input.[tup]

Peace.

Coyote

[ereimer]

QUOTE: I bought "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" and Im about 4/5ths through it although it makes me feel like I should read it about 3 more time

that sounds about right . TPfRO is the condensed knowledge of the master trackplanner's experience of many many years . i'd be very impressed by anyone who could read that book once and come up with a good trackplan

QUOTE: Going to show my ignorance here, which is easy for me to do but what exactly do you mean by "a twice (or three times) around", Im not sure I follow.

that means your track runs 2 or 3 times around the room before getting back to the starting point . it's a way of adding length to your main line without going to a multilevel design . it's disadvantage is you often see several tracks crossing an area that would realistically only have a single track

QUOTE: Don Janes has used some of these tricks in his layout, published in one of the MR special editions

i found don's layout in the 2001 issue of Great Model Railroads , he managed to squeeze a three times around plan with a decent sized yard and lots of switching areas into a 13' x 20' space . very nice track plan , but it does have areas with very high track density , not realistic for the areas you're thinking of modelling , but certainly worth having a look at

now we get to one of my personal favorite trackplans , pelle soeborg's daneville subdivision in the march 2005 model railroader . it's a twice around with a large staging yard and 3 switching areas , that when yo uexpand the plan to fit your space could become 5 areas by adding a couple of industries at the 'north' and 'south' ends of the room (you'll see what i mean if you look at the plan) . also he depicts a setting similar to what you want to do so it should be a good article for you . AND it's set in the desert and pelle does another article in the april issue demonstrating his scenery techniques
[:)]

[leighant]

A 20 x 19 foot room? I think of layout as linear track running through a scene. Such as an 18 inch shelf with track, a 3 feet aisle and another 18 shelf on the other side of the aisle. In a 20 foot room, you can have 3 aisle-and-track-on each-side combinations, each 6 feet 8 inches wide. (That makes each shelf 22 inches wide.) Suppose the aisle is S-shaped--starts in one corner of the room along one wall, makes a U turn at the end of the room and goes back through the middle of the room, then another U turn to end at the opposite corner from where it started. The track runs on a shelf generally 22 inches wide. The end curves on inside pninsulas may need a little more width to keep radius from being too tight, have to take that out of the shelf on opposite side or make aisle narrower just at that point. The track would go back and forth six times the length of the room. 19 feet x 6 = 114 feet plus a little extra on the ends. Background down peninsulas keeps you from seeing more than one route going past at any point. Like a map, right is always east, left is always west, regardless which way anything is in the original room.

This is the concept behind David Barrow's older layouts. Santa Fe in West Texas. See some of his articles such as

article _Model Railroader_ Feb75
radio control throttle related to track plan, _RMC_ Dec78 p.85
article RR Mod Craftsman Nov79 p.78
passenger operations 50s, Mod RRer Mar80 p.62
Expanding the Cat Mtn, Mod RRer, Aug79 p.60
Rebuilding & Updating, Mod RRer, May84 p.66
"Today's Cat Mtn" Great Mod RRs 92 p.26
yard throat design, Summit & Mesa _Mod RR Planning 97_ p.84
"25 Years on the Cat Mtn" _ModRRer_ Sep99 p.56

[claycts]

I got a book, 101 trackplans and in there is a track plan for ElCajon. Plus many other good working plans. They are all SMALLER than your space but that is a good thing. If nothing else it is good reference material. My copy is so dog eared I am getting another.
George P.
Orange Park this week

[rayhippard]

GRANDPACOYOTE,

I am about to start designing a layout for a 14' x 19' train room with one entrance door and no windows. Planned it this way and
have the room completely finished now including flat black painted ceiling, coved corners, painted masonite backdrops and flat
black painted masonite overhead valances to define layout outline and hide layout lighting. My plan is around the room but not
across the doorway. One peninsula juting out from beside the doorway into the center of the room. This gives me space on the
end of the peninsula for a helix to the hidden ( but accessible through black curtins ) lower level with double ended staging yard
connected to a second helix on the other side of the doorway. This will let me run trains in both directions without seeing the same train twice in one operating session. A view hiding backdrop down the center of the peinsula will let you follow your train and see
it in only one scene at a time. I will have a variety of scenes from big cities to open country to mountains. You may be able to adapt something similar for your larger space. I personnaly do not like the '" EXPOSED " multiple deck layouts because this usually
limmits decent scenery by lack of height and does not seem as realistic to look at when viewing a " scene " . Also, with my plan,
you look more realistic by having only one mainline running through each scene. With more room for industry tracks and scenery,
I believe this to be a more overall challenge to all of our modeling skills. I hope this gives you more food for thought. I also have
had to read TPfRO several times to get the gist of it and refer to the book as I design my track plan. Please keep us posted on your progress as this is one of the more interesting aspects of this forum to see how everyone is doing.

Ray ---- Great Northern fan.

[railroadyoshi]

grandpacoyote,

ereimer had GREAT stuff in his lat post

My worry for the layout you r designing is that since you want your layout to follow Rout 66 and it is in the desert, going multiple times around one deck will be VERY unrealistic, more so than say a mountainius layout set in the woods[^]

[#ditto] about Pelle's layout
DEFINITLEY look over that layout
You seem to be in a similar situation in many respects.

Good luck[8D]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
[What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, ... The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout.. Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Ok, here is an article set in Oklahoma but is typical Santa Fe style trackage.
Dave Kampsnider's Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe
Model Railroading, June 2004 page 38

Also of this 20x19 space where are the doors and windows? Based on some other people's comments I have an idea that would give you up to eight great "scenes". But the door and window locations will greatly determine if it can be done or not.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
[What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, ... The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout.. Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight.. going for somewhere between Prototypical and Imaginered.. with an idea of doing high compression scenrery to try and show a little of the 4 states involved (Calf., Arizona, N.M. and TX)

Ok, here is an article set in Oklahoma but is typical Santa Fe style trackage.
Dave Kampsnider's Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe
Model Railroading, June 2004 page 38

Also of this 20x19 space where are the doord and windows? Based on some other people's comments I have an idea that would give you up to eight great "scenes". But the door and window locations will greatly determine if it can be done or not.

The 20x19 space is the main Garage itself it is ringed by a 3' concrete 'riser' on two sides, a builtin workbench, washer and dryer, and shelve sits on that riser... the door to the house is also on that riser as is the only window in the room.. so the 20x19 space is completly free as long as I leave myself some space to get around it etc.

Thanks for all the help.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadyoshi

grandpacoyote,

ereimer had GREAT stuff in his lat post

My worry for the layout you r designing is that since you want your layout to follow Rout 66 and it is in the desert, going multiple times around one deck will be VERY unrealistic, more so than say a mountainius layout set in the woods[^]

[#ditto] about Pelle's layout
DEFINITLEY look over that layout
You seem to be in a similar situation in many respects.

Good luck[8D]

Thanks for the advice and help [:)]
Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rayhippard

GRANDPACOYOTE,

I am about to start designing a layout for a 14' x 19' train room with one entrance door and no windows. Planned it this way and
have the room completely finished now including flat black painted ceiling, coved corners, painted masonite backdrops and flat
black painted masonite overhead valances to define layout outline and hide layout lighting. My plan is around the room but not
across the doorway. One peninsula juting out from beside the doorway into the center of the room. This gives me space on the
end of the peninsula for a helix to the hidden ( but accessible through black curtins ) lower level with double ended staging yard
connected to a second helix on the other side of the doorway. This will let me run trains in both directions without seeing the same train twice in one operating session. A view hiding backdrop down the center of the peinsula will let you follow your train and see
it in only one scene at a time. I will have a variety of scenes from big cities to open country to mountains. You may be able to adapt something similar for your larger space. I personnaly do not like the '" EXPOSED " multiple deck layouts because this usually
limmits decent scenery by lack of height and does not seem as realistic to look at when viewing a " scene " . Also, with my plan,
you look more realistic by having only one mainline running through each scene. With more room for industry tracks and scenery,
I believe this to be a more overall challenge to all of our modeling skills. I hope this gives you more food for thought. I also have
had to read TPfRO several times to get the gist of it and refer to the book as I design my track plan. Please keep us posted on your progress as this is one of the more interesting aspects of this forum to see how everyone is doing.

Ray ---- Great Northern fan.

Thanks for the advice and help! Will do on keeping everyone posted on how she goes.

Peace.

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by leighant

A 20 x 19 foot room? I think of layout as linear track running through a scene. Such as an 18 inch shelf with track, a 3 feet aisle and another 18 shelf on the other side of the aisle. In a 20 foot room, you can have 3 aisle-and-track-on each-side combinations, each 6 feet 8 inches wide. (That makes each shelf 22 inches wide.) Suppose the aisle is S-shaped--starts in one corner of the room along one wall, makes a U turn at the end of the room and goes back through the middle of the room, then another U turn to end at the opposite corner from where it started. The track runs on a shelf generally 22 inches wide. The end curves on inside pninsulas may need a little more width to keep radius from being too tight, have to take that out of the shelf on opposite side or make aisle narrower just at that point. The track would go back and forth six times the length of the room. 19 feet x 6 = 114 feet plus a little extra on the ends. Background down peninsulas keeps you from seeing more than one route going past at any point. Like a map, right is always east, left is always west, regardless which way anything is in the original room.

This is the concept behind David Barrow's older layouts. Santa Fe in West Texas. See some of his articles such as

article _Model Railroader_ Feb75
radio control throttle related to track plan, _RMC_ Dec78 p.85
article RR Mod Craftsman Nov79 p.78
passenger operations 50s, Mod RRer Mar80 p.62
Expanding the Cat Mtn, Mod RRer, Aug79 p.60
Rebuilding & Updating, Mod RRer, May84 p.66
"Today's Cat Mtn" Great Mod RRs 92 p.26
yard throat design, Summit & Mesa _Mod RR Planning 97_ p.84
"25 Years on the Cat Mtn" _ModRRer_ Sep99 p.56

Thank you for the information.. I will try to find those articles.

Thanks again.

Peace.

Coyote

[rfross]

You might want to simplify and start small but build with future expansion in mind. I think one of the dangers of having a lot of space is to try to stuff layout into all of it and ending up with an overwhelming large project. So big that it eventually fails because the 'fun' turns into 'work' which kind of defeats the purpose.

I've got a shelf layout in an 11 x 13 spare bedrom in progress. The wall brackets and framework are in place and I'm in the process of installing the backdrop. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the track plan which I held off doing until the framework was up because that helped me visualize exactly how much space I had to work with.

The more thinking I do the simpler my track plan is becoming. In the end I'm probably going to only have a couple of passing tracks and maybe ten industries to switch at the most. My hope is it will be simple to maintain and most of all fun for the long haul.

One thing you could consider is to take the small layout plan book and add long connectors between the industries to help fill your space. It would simplify things and make it easier to manage versus cramming all the track you can into that very large area.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
The 20x19 space is the main Garage itself it is ringed by a 3' concrete 'riser' on two sides, a builtin workbench, washer and dryer, and shelve sits on that riser... the door to the house is also on that riser as is the only window in the room.. so the 20x19 space is completly free as long as I leave myself some space to get around it etc.

Do you have a preference for a minimum isle width. From this description as long as a 3' isle was left infront of the "riser" we should be good. That would basically leave a 16x17 space totally free to use...right?

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
[What I'm looking at is a large 20'x19' space, HO scale. AT&SF line, set in and around 1954, between California and Texas.. The Line will be those portions of the AT&SF line that ran near or by Route 66 which is the basis of the layout..
Running the Super Chief and also AT&SF freight..

Ok after the description of your space, and knowing you want to see your SuperChief run, I came up with this general shape for a single deck layout that fits in 17x16 and does not have a duck under. That leaves a three feet wide isle on two sides to get to the washer dryer, work bench, window, and door.

It only has six "scenes" instead of eight. If you like the overall concept then you can start figuring out which scenes would be just scenery and which would have towns or industries.

The real stinger here is that except for the track from Glorieta to Albuquerque all the Santa Fe track along your choosen route would be double track. Double tracking this plan might make it look too crowded. I'll work on a generic dog-bone to simulate the double track and see if you like that better.

As usual let me know if this is the direction you want to head or if you were totally thinking of something else.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote

Hi Andrew,

Thank you for all the excellant advice it is great help and helped put my mind in a better direction, I think.

Going to show my ignorance here, which is easy for me to do [;)] but what exactly do you mean by "a twice (or three times) around", Im not sure I follow.

Thanks again.

Peace.

Coyote

Coyote...

Sorry for the delay in the reply. If you haven't found a definintion yet, I would sum up a twice (or three-times) around as a layout with multiple loops on the same level. They will be separated perhaps by different heights, but not completely separated on different decks. The loops are kept apart by slight differences in elevation, or by running through tunnels, or behind landscape features like hills or city scenery. The track will have to cross itself at least once (for a twice around). This can be done as a diamond, a bridge or what-have-you.

eriemer found Don Janes layout in Great Model Railroads 2001. (Thanks!). Take a look and you will immediately understand (despite my "definition"... ;) )

This is a nice layout, also featured in GMR (2004) and MRP (2001):
http://www.ovar.ca/Mike%20Hamer/Hamer.htm
You can see that the track is all on one level. Mike has elected to make the crossing hidden (a 60* diamond in the upper right of the plan). Even though Mike's plan goes twice around, you can see that the majority of one loop is taken up as staging.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[lesterperry]

Just one comment. Slow down, it took 2 years of planning for my layout and I love it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
The 20x19 space is the main Garage itself it is ringed by a 3' concrete 'riser' on two sides, a builtin workbench, washer and dryer, and shelve sits on that riser... the door to the house is also on that riser as is the only window in the room.. so the 20x19 space is completly free as long as I leave myself some space to get around it etc.

Do you have a preference for a minimum isle width. From this description as long as a 3' isle was left infront of the "riser" we should be good. That would basically leave a 16x17 space totally free to use...right?

Texas Zepher;

Yes Sir that is 100% correct...

Coyote

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rfross

You might want to simplify and start small but build with future expansion in mind. I think one of the dangers of having a lot of space is to try to stuff layout into all of it and ending up with an overwhelming large project. So big that it eventually fails because the 'fun' turns into 'work' which kind of defeats the purpose.

I've got a shelf layout in an 11 x 13 spare bedrom in progress. The wall brackets and framework are in place and I'm in the process of installing the backdrop. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the track plan which I held off doing until the framework was up because that helped me visualize exactly how much space I had to work with.

The more thinking I do the simpler my track plan is becoming. In the end I'm probably going to only have a couple of passing tracks and maybe ten industries to switch at the most. My hope is it will be simple to maintain and most of all fun for the long haul.

One thing you could consider is to take the small layout plan book and add long connectors between the industries to help fill your space. It would simplify things and make it easier to manage versus cramming all the track you can into that very large area.

rfross,

Excellant advice and comments, yes it was becoming a bit daunting.. thanks for the encouragement though.

The OL may just start on a small piece and get our feet wet. *shrugs*

Thanks for the last idea on joining trackplans.. going to think on that one -hard-.

Peace.

Coyote

[davekelly]

Texas,

I like the rough plan you came out with. Very efficient use of space.

Andrew,

Mike Hamer's layout is very interesting. What captured my eye was his use of the "outside staging." While I don't know if he was the first, the use of such staging is definately a great idea for a room of that size. The avoidance of a multi-deck design can also be seen as a plus.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
Ok after the description of your space, and knowing you want to see your SuperChief run, I came up with this general shape for a single deck layout that fits in 17x16 and does not have a duck under. That leaves a three feet wide isle on two sides to get to the washer dryer, work bench, window, and door.

It only has six "scenes" instead of eight. If you like the overall concept then you can start figuring out which scenes would be just scenery and which would have towns or industries.

The real stinger here is that except for the track from Glorieta to Albuquerque all the Santa Fe track along your choosen route would be double track. Double tracking this plan might make it look too crowded. I'll work on a generic dog-bone to simulate the double track and see if you like that better.

As usual let me know if this is the direction you want to head or if you were totally thinking of something else.

T Z,

Holy [censored]!

Sir, I am without words. In all honesty right now I'm shocked by the depth of kindness and friendship you have shown a total stranger by producing this. I can not express my thanks enough. The Trackplan issue has been one that has left me so lost and frustrated that outside of stealing others work.. something I was loathe to do.. I had considered putting off my venture into the hobby. At this moment though I am touched and awed. [bow]

Yes Sir that is a wonderful design, although I will admit to you truthfully that I do not completly understand it all, I think I see a bridge there perhaps?

I was considering having to limit myself to only 5 'scenes', the OL and I had come up with that in the last few days, so 6 would be incredible, Sir! [:O][wow]

As to double track, yes I was aware of that fact and had thought about simply laying double track side by side... However I would love to look at your dog bone design... I would be honored to look at anything you, in your graciousness, pass onto me.

Please excuse my lateness in response, been away from the forums during the OL's PT.

Again thank you!

Currently Floored... [:O][:O][:O][:O][bow]

Coyote

[davekelly]

This hobby is filled to the brim with folks that are not selfish with their time, knowledge and abilities. We are indeed a lucky group! Maybe that's why so many of us have been involved for so many years.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpacoyote
Yes Sir that is a wonderful design, although I will admit to you truthfully that I do not completly understand it all, I think I see a bridge there perhaps?

Ok. I'll try some words to help explain it. BTW - before I get started I did go back and double track this and it doesn't looks as crowded as I thought it would. ...

As you have probably figured out the isle is sort of a mirror image "G" shape that goes from the lower left and loops around counter clockwise between the tracks. I tried to keep it 3 feet wide but I think it will pinch tighter in a couple spots.

There would be a divider between the tracks at least from the center loop around the curves on the upper left.


Starting at the very bottom straight track. This is hidden and would be expanded for the staging area (three or four tracks) where the SuperChief would, rest out of sight waiting for her grand apperance.

The loop in the lower left would be a grade up so that the next straight track after it would be high enough to clear the trains in the staging area below. This second track after the loop would be one "scene" and could have a spur off to utilize the inside of the loop for an industry or two.

Along the entire right side is a second "scene" here the track from the staging area emerges at a lower level than the track from scene #1 above. This allows some canyon scenry, possibly a river, with trains in both the bottom and bridging over the top.

As it approches the top (what I've been thinking of as the front) it ducks into another tunnel and turns the corner emerging to become the long straight track at the very top. As shown this would be rather boaring (straight track along a straight edge of the layout, but that can be dealt with later). I envisioned this scene to be a passenger station where the SuperChief would have a scheduled stop, maybe even pick up an RPO (like it does in La Junta Colorado). Since it is a town there would also be a couple industries and and interchange to another railroad (SP or local short line).

Around the outside curve on the upper left is where I envisoned a "scene" where the railroad runs directly beside a busy Route 66. (Don't forget a maroon 1946 Ford convertible pacing the train! - long story).

On around that corner is the long graceful "S-curve" scene where the entire SuperChief can be seen against a beautiful desert background. I would consider this scene as the "showcase" of the layout. Route 66 might still be here, but there is enough space it can meander a bit and doesn't have to be parallel to the tracks. In fact it might want to cross the railroad into the isle and rejoin later.

Through the loop in the center the train enters another small town scene with once again an industry using the space on the inside of the loop. Route 66 would definitely have rejoined from the isle by now and pass through this town.

The reverse curve takes us back to the second track from the top here is the "back side" of the large town. So here again we have an interchange with "another" railroad. I can't visualize if this will be wide enough for a divider to make its own scene or if it just has to be a different view of the same one.

Anyway, from here the trains curve back through canyon country but this time on the top and over the bridges down to meet the other end of Scene #1.

Having re-read some posts I see you have right track, so I'll try to find some way to send you these files I am coming up with.