Grrrrrrr..... ! Getting the legs right!

[Anonymous]

I use carriage bolts with washers and a nut to adjust the levels mainly because I had never seen the T nuts in a hardware store in Canada. As to joining the sections together, I extended the front and rear frame 3/4 in. and used two blocks. One is screwed to the upper side of one frame and one to the lower side of the other frame. When you place the joint together it is already even. I drilled holes through from one section to the other and bolted them together. I have a 9 x 16 circular layout with a U shape walk around interior. It is built in 5 sections to facilatate moving. As a side note I also have small square blocks with a shallow hole in the center to allow the head of the carriage bolt to sit in. This is to keep the head off the floor. Don't know why but even in good basements bolts seem to attrack some form of moisture and rust.

[oldyardgoat]

Jarrell,
Two more thoughts:
My dad was a carpenter. He said all floors were uneven to some degree. His advice was to measure down from the ceiling.
Invest in one of those laser line levels when you buy those T-nuts.
DS

[mrunyan]

The mention of the drain makes a case for levelers, keep wood up off the floor against water damage stains. The pictures show a really well kept room so I doubt you have water problems. In that case I would suggest a leveler that has a nonmarring foot. Carraige bolts will scratch and mark that nice floor. I'm in Ntrak and we use those all the time and can set up on gymnasium floors without a worry. Nice work, keep it up.
You might want to guage the frame sides together with pins or bolts or screws, then they always line up. Just make a template and predrill the holes.

[jacon12]

mrunyan, that's what I did... I went ahead and purchased and installed the type levelers that have the little non marring foot attached. At first I looked for the bolts but we couldn't find a 'cover' for their heads (coulda used most anything, I guess), but for a buck or two more I opted for the ones stated above.
There has been a lot of good information in this thread and if I'm ever asked the question I asked the first thing out of my mouth will be to go ahead and invest in levelers of some type. You won't regret it I don't have a lot of hair left and they certainly allowed me to keep what I have
Jarrell[:D]

[wccobb]

Basement floors are always pitched for drainage. One reliable way to level the layout (set the T-nuts& carriage bolts) is to measure from the bottom of the floor above you DOWN to the layout.

[nobullchitbids]

The one suggestion I did not see was to establish a "level line" around the layout room. The first thing one has to do is find the reference points for making everything else level.

For this, a water level is best. If you neither can buy nor borrow one, make one with a cooler possessing a tap in it. Get a long length of clear, flexible tubing and affix it to the tap. Fill the cooler to some level above the tap hole, mark that level with a grease pencil, and set it so the water's surface is at the height you want the top of the benchwork. Now, while holding the tubing ABOVE the level of the water in the cooler, open the ****. The water will fill the tubing to the level in the cooler (you may have to add some water to the cooler to bring the level back up to the grease mark). DO NOT MOVE THE COOLER AT ALL, JUST THE TUBING. Wherever you place the tubing, wherever the water is, that's level, and far more accurate than a bubble level. Mark that point on the wall with a pencil.

After you determine where all the benchwork must go to be at level, THEN you can use the hexhead carriage bolts in the legs for making the necessary adjustments. For most applications, a half inch travel up or down should be sufficient. For such a nice floor, make sure you put some kind of plate between the bolthead and the floor, e.g. a piece of brass or stainless steel. That should spread the weight enough to keep the boltheads from impressing themselves on the flooring.

[jacon12]

The cooler idea is a great one Nobull...
Thanks for the advice!
Jarrell

[Marty on Vancouver Island]

You're right! Some floors are not level, especially basement and garage floors. But ceilings [usually] are. So rather than measuring up from the floor, measure DOWN from the ceiling. For example: You want your layout height to be 50" and your ceiling height is 96", just measure down from the ceiling 46". Once you have marked this height on the walls around the room (double check it with a level), you have somewhere to start from, And as already mentioned in other responses, use a few clamps and the level to assemble the benchwork, a section at a time, as you move around the room - using the line on the wall to work from. Cheers, Marty on Vancouver Island

[Anonymous]

Instead of trying to mount the legs on the floor, and since your layout is an around the wall style, I'd suggest you mount the benchwork cantilever style on the walls. There are myrail articles in ModelRailroader addressing this style of construction. Lots of luck.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Marty on Vancouver Island

You're right! Some floors are not level, especially basement and garage floors. But ceilings [usually] are. So rather than measuring up from the floor, measure DOWN from the ceiling. For example: You want your layout height to be 50" and your ceiling height is 96", just measure down from the ceiling 46". Once you have marked this height on the walls around the room (double check it with a level), you have somewhere to start from, And as already mentioned in other responses, use a few clamps and the level to assemble the benchwork, a section at a time, as you move around the room - using the line on the wall to work from. Cheers, Marty on Vancouver Island

Thanks Marty, I think I now have it under control using the levelers and a capenters level.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by [e-mail]

Instead of trying to mount the legs on the floor, and since your layout is an around the wall style, I'd suggest you mount the benchwork cantilever style on the walls. There are myrail articles in ModelRailroader addressing this style of construction. Lots of luck.

Trainbuff, I almost went with that style benchwork, and sometimes I wish I had... but I chose not to mount anything to the wall.
I think I have the problem fixed and I'm now starting the framework for the background boards.
Let's see how much I can screw that up..
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

In the Nov. 2004 MR, page 36, there was a neat article on adj. legs. I'm using it on my modular layout og the Cass Scenic. Drill 3" deep holes in the center of the legs w/a 5/16" brad point bit. Bradpoints leave a square-bottom hole.. Insert 1/4" tee nuts. Use the kind with four holes instead of prongs. (Pronged ones will work loose) Hold the tee nuts in place with paneling nails..
Use 1-1/4" PVC Pipe caps for feet. Drill a 1/4" hole in the center of the pipe cap. Use 2-1/2" bolts threaded to the head. Put a star washer & nut on the bolt, and just before you tighten it. put on a drop of C A. Add another nut for a locknut.
I hope you are able to take off the legs to work on them. Otherwise maybe, if your layout isn't too far along, you could turn each section over to work on it. Lots of luck,
Rollin

[TBat55]

T-nuts are OK in 2x2s but I don't like the idea for pine 1x4s. If you already have a layout and can't flip it over to install T-nuts, you can screw on these leveling feet. Expensive ($6 from Woodcraft) but heavy duty 3" diameter. There's a lip that fits underneath to fully support the leg. The orange pad is not included. My basement is 100 years old and I want to move my layout. Minor floor variations with carriage bolts would driving me nuts. The larger diameter reduces the effect.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by [e-mail]

In the Nov. 2004 MR, page 36, there was a neat article on adj. legs. I'm using it on my modular layout og the Cass Scenic. Drill 3" deep holes in the center of the legs w/a 5/16" brad point bit. Bradpoints leave a square-bottom hole.. Insert 1/4" tee nuts. Use the kind with four holes instead of prongs. (Pronged ones will work loose) Hold the tee nuts in place with paneling nails..
Use 1-1/4" PVC Pipe caps for feet. Drill a 1/4" hole in the center of the pipe cap. Use 2-1/2" bolts threaded to the head. Put a star washer & nut on the bolt, and just before you tighten it. put on a drop of C A. Add another nut for a locknut.
I hope you are able to take off the legs to work on them. Otherwise maybe, if your layout isn't too far along, you could turn each section over to work on it. Lots of luck,
Rollin
Trainbuff, I'm too far along to do this but it's a good way to go and I KNOW other people are reading this and taking notes for when they get to this part!
Thanks for the help!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TBat55

T-nuts are OK in 2x2s but I don't like the idea for pine 1x4s. If you already have a layout and can't flip it over to install T-nuts, you can screw on these leveling feet. Expensive ($6 from Woodcraft) but heavy duty 3" diameter. There's a lip that fits underneath to fully support the leg. The orange pad is not included. My basement is 100 years old and I want to move my layout. Minor floor variations with carriage bolts would driving me nuts. The larger diameter reduces the effect.

Tbat, it looks like you're using casters to roll you layout around. I was going to do that when my first idea was a 5 x 9 foot table. I thought it was a neat idea to be able to push layout over against the wall when I needed the space.
I appreciate the advice and I know others will also.
Jarrell

[TBat55]

It works for me, and is faster than raising the leveling feet until fixed casters touch.

a better picture


Velcro hold it up


Don't forget a hole to remove the hinge pin.

[jacon12]

Hehehehe.. oh the ingenuity of it all!
Jarrell