"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I think the floor option would work, assuming your trench stays clear from an outside wall, and that the floor remains dry year round.
Simon
Dave, are you thinking of cutting a trench and leaving it open or covered with a removeable thing of some kind? Or would you bury some conduit and cover over it with concrete, putting in a permanent outlet on the floor?
York1 John
Dave, I would recommend something like this instead:
Mike
Dave, I think what Mike suggests is a good idea. Without knowing for sure I would think a floor plug in a garage would be against code, the reason being, that it would be a fire hazard having wet or leaky cars dripping into a floor plug which could cause a small fire right under your gas tank. At some point, the house will go on the market and an inspector will catch that one, not an inexpensive fix.
We have these in our garage and they are a great solution.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Water Level Route Dave, I would recommend something like this instead:
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks for all the suggestions regarding getting power to the layout.
The bottom line is that I have to be able to roll my wheelchair and taller office chair around freely. The cable protectors are very hard to roll over and you have to have your hands free to push the chair. That means putting the throttle down.
The retractable extension cords would work, and they would be butt ugly! Sorry Brent.
Building a raised floor has so many downfalls that I won't get into them.
There are approved watertight electrical boxes designed to be installed in concrete. The floor will also be sealed with epoxy, and it will never see a car in my lifetime! I will have to research what the code says.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I still don't like the idea of a floor outlet. You should still consider a post in the corner of the layout to run power down from the ceiling.
If you insist on a floor outlet, at the very least control it with a wall switch to turn the power off when not in use.
One of my objections to a floor outlet is the permanency of it. If you ever have to move to assisted living, hospice, whatever, there is the issue of liability should a new owner become injured or suffer property damage due to a problem caused by the floor outlet.
In both my previous home in Massachusetts and this one in Delaware, I note that all of the garage outlets are located on the walls several feet above the floor. I can only assume that's to comply with code. The Massachusetts house was built in 1980. The Delaware house was built in about 2015.
I always parked cars in the Massachusetts house, and the garage in Delaware has so much excess junque in it that we've only had a car in there a couple of times. The high outlets have never been a problem, but, of course, I never had a layout in either garage, and only used the outlets for things like building benchwork which I then transported to the train room upstairs.
The train room used only wall outlets and had no wiring across open spaces.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
richhotrain I still don't like the idea of a floor outlet. You should still consider a post in the corner of the layout to run power down from the ceiling. If you insist on a floor outlet, at the very least control it with a wall switch to turn the power off when not in use. One of my objections to a floor outlet is the permanency of it. If you ever have to move to assisted living, hospice, whatever, there is the issue of liability should a new owner become injured or suffer property damage due to a problem caused by the floor outlet. Rich
hon30critter Thanks for all the suggestions regarding getting power to the layout. The bottom line is that I have to be able to roll my wheelchair and taller office chair around freely. The cable protectors are very hard to roll over and you have to have your hands free to push the chair. That means putting the throttle down. The retractable extension cords would work, and they would be butt ugly! Sorry Brent. Building a raised floor has so many downfalls that I won't get into them. There are approved watertight electrical boxes designed to be installed in concrete. The floor will also be sealed with epoxy, and it will never see a car in my lifetime! I will have to research what the code says.
You'll have to talk to an electrician and get his opinion. Of course, the ESA may have different thoughts...
At work there are a number of wells in the floor for power, but they are slightly proud of the floor to minimize water ingress. Any kind of power you want is available in them from several receptacles.
Hi betamax,
I had thought about having the floor outlet elevated. It could only be about 2 1/2" tall max or the layout and storage cabinets would hit it, but given the very small amounts of water that might be present on occassion, 2 1/2" would be plenty.
One thing that I have to keep in mind is that the Ontario Electrical Code may differ from other jurisdictions. Something that might be legal elsewhere may not be acceptable here.
Worst case scenario is that I will have to use Brent's suggestion of attaching a retractable cord to the ceiling. If I do that, I will need your ideas on how to blend the cord into the scenery. How about Jack's bean stock?!?
Hi John,
Sorry, I missed answering your question earlier.
My plan is to cut a trench in the floor and then fill it with concrete. I am planning on using a two part connection box in the floor so that a future owner could remove the top section and patch the floor. That would require an accessible junction box somewhere upstream of the floor outlet so that there would be no live power under the patch.
You are over thinking this. just cut a small trench along a seam in the concrete floor and lay in an extention cord. You don't need a perminate solution, just a solution for you. Example, in my train room I have almost 30 cans on a track light that is plugged in but they are all LED bulbs so not much power is used, if wired directly this would not be allowed because some idiot could put in incandensent bulbs, so it is veiwed as a lamp in effect.
snjroyOne of my objections to a floor outlet is the permanency of it. If you ever have to move to assisted living, hospice, whatever, there is the issue of liability should a new owner become injured or suffer property damage due to a problem caused by the floor outlet. Rich
snjroyThe outlet could easily be condemned and filled up prior to a sale.
So, if I understand this correctly,
1. a feature is installed by the current (humm, he said "current") owner that may be unsafe.
2. there could be a liability issue if sold to next owner.
3. it can be condemned prior to sale to avoid injury to next owner.
4. but if existing (I didn't say "current") owner is injured, that's okay?
Doesn't sound right to me.
hon30critterWorst case scenario is that I will have to use Brent's suggestion of attaching a retractable cord to the ceiling. If I do that, I will need your ideas on how to blend the cord into the scenery. How about Jack's bean stock?!?
It's bean stalk, not bean stock. I believe that bean stock is the stuff you need to start the next batch of bean soup.
Anyway, the cord from the ceiling does not need to be retractable. Run it down through the center of a smoke stack, put some dark gray/black fiber fill or furnace filter around it, and tell everyone that you are polluting.
maxman One of my objections to a floor outlet is the permanency of it. If you ever have to move to assisted living, hospice, whatever, there is the issue of liability should a new owner become injured or suffer property damage due to a problem caused by the floor outlet. Rich snjroy The outlet could easily be condemned and filled up prior to a sale. So, if I understand this correctly, 1. a feature is installed by the current (humm, he said "current") owner that may be unsafe. 2. there could be a liability issue if sold to next owner. 3. it can be condemned prior to sale to avoid injury to next owner. 4. but if existing (I didn't say "current") owner is injured, that's okay? Doesn't sound right to me.
One of my objections to a floor outlet is the permanency of it. If you ever have to move to assisted living, hospice, whatever, there is the issue of liability should a new owner become injured or suffer property damage due to a problem caused by the floor outlet. Rich
snjroy The outlet could easily be condemned and filled up prior to a sale.
If in doubt, he could install a kill-switch when he leaves the garage. I have that in my train room, that is situated in a flood-prone basement. When I turn out the light while leaving the room, the switch actually shuts off all the electricals in my train room.
And of course, an opinion of a good electrician would absolutely count here. I believe that's Dave's plan.
hon30critter I had thought about having the floor outlet elevated. It could only be about 2 1/2" tall max or the layout and storage cabinets would hit it, but given the very small amounts of water that might be present on occassion, 2 1/2" would be plenty. Dave
snjroy hon30critter I had thought about having the floor outlet elevated. It could only be about 2 1/2" tall max or the layout and storage cabinets would hit it, but given the very small amounts of water that might be present on occassion, 2 1/2" would be plenty. Dave OK, so there could be flooding issues, this is new information to me. Raising the outlet seems like the most reasonable solution. Wiring running through cement should not be a cause of worry: I've got a few electrical wires running underground in the yard that have not been problematic - and it's totally in accordance to the Code! Simon
OK, so there could be flooding issues, this is new information to me. Raising the outlet seems like the most reasonable solution. Wiring running through cement should not be a cause of worry: I've got a few electrical wires running underground in the yard that have not been problematic - and it's totally in accordance to the Code!
richhotrain snjroy hon30critter I had thought about having the floor outlet elevated. It could only be about 2 1/2" tall max or the layout and storage cabinets would hit it, but given the very small amounts of water that might be present on occassion, 2 1/2" would be plenty. Dave OK, so there could be flooding issues, this is new information to me. Raising the outlet seems like the most reasonable solution. Wiring running through cement should not be a cause of worry: I've got a few electrical wires running underground in the yard that have not been problematic - and it's totally in accordance to the Code! Simon Running electrical wires under ground through your yard may not be problematic, but do you have an outlet in your lawn? Rich
Running electrical wires under ground through your yard may not be problematic, but do you have an outlet in your lawn?
Outdoor outlets are quite common in commercial applications, often run to planting beds and the like. Usually mounted on a support around a foot or so off the ground.
Indoor versions are probably allowed by code, but likely not in garages.
Hi Simon,
Flooding is not a big issue. We are on a hill. The worst situation would be for the water pipe that runs through the garage to freeze and burst. Even that is a remote possibility because the garage water is shut off from inside the house in the winter.
Raising the outlet would only be done if the code requires it.
snjroy richhotrain snjroy hon30critter I had thought about having the floor outlet elevated. It could only be about 2 1/2" tall max or the layout and storage cabinets would hit it, but given the very small amounts of water that might be present on occassion, 2 1/2" would be plenty. Dave OK, so there could be flooding issues, this is new information to me. Raising the outlet seems like the most reasonable solution. Wiring running through cement should not be a cause of worry: I've got a few electrical wires running underground in the yard that have not been problematic - and it's totally in accordance to the Code! Simon Running electrical wires under ground through your yard may not be problematic, but do you have an outlet in your lawn? Rich Yes, raised a few feet.
Yes, raised a few feet.
My point is that burying cable underground or under concrete is not the issue. The issue is the exposed outlet, face up, on the garage floor.
hon30critter Hi Simon, Flooding is not a big issue. We are on a hill. The worst situation would be for the water pipe that runs through the garage to freeze and burst. Even that is a remote possibility because the garage water is shut off from inside the house in the winter. Raising the outlet would only be done if the code requires it. Cheers!! Dave
You could always run conduit under the slab, bring up up against the wall and mount the box about a foot from the floor. You could even tee off from that and install a couple of extra outlets.
Your electrician will know what is permissible.
I don't need to get the power to the wall. It is already there. I want to have the power about 5' from the wall in the floor.
I have asked my contractor to speak to his electrician. I will wait for his advice and base my decision on that.
Hi maxman,
Thanks for correcting my spelling of bean 'stalk'. Senior's moment I guess.
Hi Rich,
All of the floor outlets suitable for my purposes have covers that close off the outlets when not in use. Some have seals in them.
My intent is to install a kill switch and a GFIC in the wall. All the layout power will go through that switch.
There will also be two main switches for the new garage lights plus two other switches for the original garage lights.
I think I may have come across a much simpler solution to getting power to the layout. All I need to do is cut a small channel in the concrete and put a steel plate over it. The plate would be recessed into the concrete so that it would be flush with the floor and it would be held in place with magnetic latches. That would avoid having the extension cord permanently mounted in the floor.
The channel for the cord would be narrower than the cover plate and would be deep enough to hold a 12 ga. extension cord which would be plugged into a dedicated switched wall socket. For safety's sake I might put a cord protector around the extension cord.
Any thoughts?