CharlieM John-NYBW A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once. IOW, it excels at repetitive tasks. Programming it to do a one time task is very inefficient. In such an instance, you're probably better off doing the task manually. I agree with the above but my experience is the CAD version of my layout is invaluable. True the initial design can be done on paper but, for me, there's not enough pencil lead and erasers to handle all the changes and updates along the way. There are many tweaks before a "final as designed" version is drawn and then there is the "as built" revision after design meets plywood. "What ifs" are a breeze with the computer. In addition you will want to keep the layout accurately documented as mods and scenery are added. This is really laborious with paper and pencil. I also find that the program is more accurate than I can cut and build the layout. If something doesn't fit when I start physical build it usually means I have made a mistake. It's far easier and cheaper to make changes in digital space than with wood and track afterwards.
John-NYBW A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once. IOW, it excels at repetitive tasks. Programming it to do a one time task is very inefficient. In such an instance, you're probably better off doing the task manually.
A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once. IOW, it excels at repetitive tasks. Programming it to do a one time task is very inefficient. In such an instance, you're probably better off doing the task manually.
I agree with the above but my experience is the CAD version of my layout is invaluable. True the initial design can be done on paper but, for me, there's not enough pencil lead and erasers to handle all the changes and updates along the way. There are many tweaks before a "final as designed" version is drawn and then there is the "as built" revision after design meets plywood. "What ifs" are a breeze with the computer. In addition you will want to keep the layout accurately documented as mods and scenery are added. This is really laborious with paper and pencil. I also find that the program is more accurate than I can cut and build the layout. If something doesn't fit when I start physical build it usually means I have made a mistake. It's far easier and cheaper to make changes in digital space than with wood and track afterwards.
I'm not trying to knock the track planning software. I'm just trying to point out there are pros and cons with both methods. In my case, once I was satisfied with the initial design and started building, I had no reason to go back and make revisions to it. If I found something didn't quite fit or I had a better idea, I saw no point to going back and fixing the plan. I just did what needed to be done on the layout. Somewhere, I might have that original plan buried away but I've had no reason to refer back to it 20+ years later.
PS. Then there is the George Selios approach. I think it was in the first Allen Keller video on the F&SM that he said he never used a plan. He just figured out on the fly where the track should go and would lay it there.
I was thinking something along the lines of what Rich was saying but not quite. Take photos straight down of sections of the layout and then stitch them all together with a photo program and then use a drawing program to draw in the things to be added. There is not much to learn to be able to do that and the programs to do so are likely already on your computer.
You could then have it all on a tablet to refer to at the club or print it off in sections or as a whole.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
My preference is CadRail but 3rd Planit also gets good reviews. CadRail is a bit cheaper and is a full function CAD program. I use it for all sorts of drawing tasks. 3rd Planit may also fill this bill but I have no experience with it.
You say that the trackwork is already completed and that you simply now need a scale drawing of the layout so areas for scenery and structures can be marked out and assigned for development.
Take photos of each section of the layout and have those photos enlarged to scale at a print shop like Kinko's. Then draw your desired scenery and structures on those enlarged photos.
Rich
Alton Junction
I swear by the freeeware Atlas tool. While not perfect, it doesn't have too large a learning curve. I too was about reading to go old school but had nightmares of shop class. Shocking to know that my worst subject was math, yet designed a functioning layout. Gotta love divine intervention and asking a ton of help!
The largest issue I had was going from the software design program to an actual layout. What I found works is making graphs on the foam with a sharpie and drawing the track to correspond to the grids. The layout was very close to the design. I learned with the 2nd (current one) not to deviate from what I designed on paper.
John-NYBW I spent most of my working life as a mainframe programmer. An IBM rep said something that stuck with me to this day. A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once. IOW, it excels at repetitive tasks. Programming it to do a one time task is very inefficient. In such an instance, you're probably better off doing the task manually.
I spent most of my working life as a mainframe programmer. An IBM rep said something that stuck with me to this day. A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once. IOW, it excels at repetitive tasks. Programming it to do a one time task is very inefficient. In such an instance, you're probably better off doing the task manually.
Great point! Being fairly tech savvy and growing up working with software I made the wrong assumption that I could easily learn to use a CAD program to design my layout. Learned the hard way and feel stupid shelling out $$$ for CAD software. Never again; strictly paper and pencil now.
Hello All,
I'm on a Mac and use RailModeler Pro.
For other "drawing" I use Canvas X Draw. I went for the outright purchase over the subscription option.
John-NYBWAn IBM rep said something that stuck with me to this day. A computer is a great tool for doing one thing a million times. It's a poor tool for doing a million things once.
Excellent point!
I too planned my pike with graph paper, a mechanical pencil, and a BIG eraser.
RailModeler Pro was used to document the final layout and the power blocks.
The program does have layers and the ability to represent various objects like structures and scenery.
It is not a steep learning curve but it did take some time to get comfortable with it.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
With CAD software, the programming has already been done but there is still a learning curve for the end user and it is quite possible one will spend more effort on the learning curve than they would have if they just did it by hand. That was my experience with the program I tried. That's why I ended up going the pencil and paper route. If I had thought I was going to end up designing dozens of layouts, it probably would have been worthwhile learning the software, but I figured I was planning my last layout so why bother learning to how to use software I would only use one time. I already knew how to use a pencil (and the eraser).
My layout was fully and successfuly planned in 3rd PlanIt. Like any CAD package there is a learning curve. If none of your cadre has experience with modern CAD, nor is willing to take up the challenge, I recommend good old fashioned squared paper, pencil and ruler. Of course the caveat of GIGO applies to either technology.
D
da29. the artist formerly known as da1.
CadRail will do that for you. That's what I use for my track planning. You can print the plan, or you can copy an image of the plan and have it printed on a large format pinter at someplace like FedEx/Kinko's.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I have tried a couple of track planning programs. The biggest problem is the learning curve. I went back to drafting by hand.
Even after doing a fairly detailed track plan with the pencil and paper method, I found I had to do some onsite adjustments once I started laying track. I found that some things didn't work as well in 3D as they did in 2D and sometime I just got better ideas as I was building. Still, the layout I ended up with looks very much like the original track plan.
John-NYBW I tried a couple layout planning software when I was planning my current layout over 20 years ago and I ended up going back to using old fashioned graph paper, compass, protractor, straight edge, and pencil with eraser. I found it a lot easier to work with than what was available at the time. I'm sure the software has imroved a lot in the last 20+ years but if I was going to plan a new layout, which I'm not, I'd still take the low tech approach.
I tried a couple layout planning software when I was planning my current layout over 20 years ago and I ended up going back to using old fashioned graph paper, compass, protractor, straight edge, and pencil with eraser. I found it a lot easier to work with than what was available at the time. I'm sure the software has imroved a lot in the last 20+ years but if I was going to plan a new layout, which I'm not, I'd still take the low tech approach.
I get where you are coming from. I still have some photos from 40+ years ago of large pieces of brown paper taped together and tacked to a large wall in our family room where I was drawing out a full scale plan of my "new" layout using track and turnout templates.
I would imagine that an up to date program for track planning would not only allow someone to draw a new plan, but replicate an existing one. I would just like to hear from anyone has used a good one and who feels it would help us do what we want to do.
Our club moved from it's old location and into new quarters about three years ago. At this point, all the disassembled section of the previous layout are back in place along with the new ones needed to reconnect everything back together and confirm to the new floor plan.
We are now in need of a scale drawing of the final layout so areas for scenery and structures can be marked out and assigned for development. What we are hoping to find is a program which would allow us to do such a drawing. We could then get it enlarged and the post it in a wall for members to view.
I am wondering if any of you could recommend a program that would allow us to do that?
Thanks,
Dan