Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Program for Drawing out a Layout

8100 views
43 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2022
  • 96 posts
Posted by IC_Tom on Wednesday, April 19, 2023 11:30 AM

I tried out every model railroad CAD program mentioned in this thread and decided on AnyRail.  It's the easiest to learn when it comes to simply connecting track and turnouts together and controlling the radii of flex and curves.  It includes easements (at least a simplified version), which is important to me.  Plus, the AnyRail forum is much mire active than other model rr CAD forums.  You can get questions answered fast.

Another great resource is Steam-Powered Radio on youtube.  That guy has made dozens of videos that walk you through every single feature and bug of AnyRail.

The ease of use (and very low price) is a double-edged sword, however.  It is wanting in some more complicated features, especially if you're used to MicroStation or AutoCAD.  I don't regret picking it, though.  I'll drop back to AutoCAD if I have to for benchwork and other details.

The biggest thing that AnyRail has is an extensive worldwide track library.  A few times I considered drawing up track and turnouts in AutoCAD and quickly dismissed the idea. Maybe if my ambition was to become a layout designer, but it's not: I just want to build a layout.Wink

 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Nashville, TN area
  • 713 posts
Posted by hardcoalcase on Tuesday, April 11, 2023 9:08 PM

AEP528

 The Atlas software switched to a paid version years ago. 

 

I believe it is still available for free download here: 

http://trainweb.org/seaboard/layouts.htm

To my recollection, there was a Yahoo site (now .io?) for this too, which recommended V 8.0 as being the best version, balancing ease of use with capability.  

Jim

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Nashville, TN area
  • 713 posts
Posted by hardcoalcase on Tuesday, April 11, 2023 9:00 PM

.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, April 11, 2023 10:35 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
And that is the difference between a draftsman and a residential designer/architect/structural engineer.

I designed my Dream House while I was in High School during 1984. My Drafting/Design II project was a "complete" set of drawings for the house construction, including roof trusses.

When I actually had the chance to build the house in 1989 I found out that my drawing set was not quite complete.

There was a company in Cape Coral that I believe was called Woodson Design And Engineering that produced two more drawings, and then the design was approved by the county for construction. They did not need to redraw any of my originals.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 327 posts
Posted by AEP528 on Tuesday, April 11, 2023 7:11 AM

hardcoalcase

 

 
kasskaboose

I swear by the freeeware Atlas tool.  While not perfect, it doesn't have too large a learning curve.  

 

 

Another vote for the Atlas Freeware!

Jim

 

The Atlas software switched to a paid version years ago. 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Nashville, TN area
  • 713 posts
Posted by hardcoalcase on Monday, April 10, 2023 12:07 PM

kasskaboose

I swear by the freeeware Atlas tool.  While not perfect, it doesn't have too large a learning curve.  

Another vote for the Atlas Freeware!

Jim

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, April 10, 2023 6:58 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Wayne,

And that is the difference between a draftsman and a residential designer/architect/structural engineer.

Sheldon

 

I felt a shiver run down my spine when I read Wayne's description of that blueprint error. 

I have built a couple of structures for my kids, a second story deck and an attic platform over a 2nd floor trey ceiling. In both cases, we consulted a structural engineer to get things right before beginning the build.

Years ago, we hired a contractor to build a one story addition in the back end of our two story home. He failed to dig the foundation deep enough on non-virgin soil. Gradually, the addition sunk into the soil and we had to tear it down. 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, April 10, 2023 5:47 AM

Wayne,

And that is the difference between a draftsman and a residential designer/architect/structural engineer.

Sheldon

 

    

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, April 10, 2023 12:33 AM

When we decided to build the house in which we now live, I did labelled sketches of the floor plans for both the ground floor and the second story, then forwarded them to a person who claimed to be a capable draughtsman.

When I presented the blueprints to the town clerk, he seemed to be impressed, but the more I looked at the blueprints, the more I started to worry that a mistake had been made. 
I decided to visit the lumber yard where I was planning to purchase the materials, and asked one of the salesman to look at the blueprints, without pointing-out the flaw that I had noticed.  It took him less than a minute to spot the error, which, on the blueprint was two 24' long 2"x10" joists that supposedly would support an 8' high wall of the same length.  He must've look at it two or three times, incredulous. 

That's when I butted-in, and suggested that a truss would be a better solution.  His reply was yes, I think you're correct, and I will drive down tomorrow to take  a look.

When he showed-up, it took only a few minutes until he remarked..."Yes, a truss, and not just one truss, but three, and I will have them made-up and delivered, along with instructions on how they're to be installed.

When the trusses arrived, all three were the same 24' length, and a full 9' high, with instructions to put all three up, fastened together with 8" Ardox nails (from both sides, and clinched-over).
I was surpised that I could lift those trusses (one-at-a-time, of course) by myself, and got them properly held together following the nailing instructions, all finished on the same day.
We later returned to the "draughtsman", and managed to get at least a partial refund for the carelessly-done blueprints....I could have done a better job myself.

I'm glad that I didn't have to return to the so-called draughtsman to make a blueprint for my model railroad layout plan, and since I already had it pretty-well figured-out in my head, I didn't even have to make a sketch.

Wayne

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 9, 2023 12:24 PM

SeeYou190

So... I need to redesign part of my layout to lose 6" of width.

Crying

I have never been good a drawing track plans. Is AnyRail easy to use?

I can't build it in 1:1 scale again.

-Kevin

 

Easy is relative - all drawing software has a learning curve, some steeper than others.

Some people do seem to find it intuitive, others not so much.

Just like smart phones, I do OK with my Android, my grand kids have had Apple phones for years, and no matter how much I play with their phones, I don't get it.

It is also one of my problems with DCC, the ergonomics of the controllers, even after many hours running trains on other peoples layouts.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Sunday, April 9, 2023 11:26 AM

I got pretty good at drawing up house plans with CAD when we thought we would build our own custom house. I do, however, like the old pencil and paper method for MRR. I bought this giant pad of graph paper that has 1-inch squares for $7.00 at Staples, each 1" square represented a sqft it was perfect.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 9, 2023 10:34 AM

A highly skilled CAD operator among our group here transfomed my hand drawings into something I could post here, but despite some training in that area, I have never personally gotten comfortable with any kind of digital drawing format.

Starting two new design projects for customers, still hand drawn.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 9, 2023 6:06 AM

I have always drawn my proposed layouts on quadrille paper with pencil and eraser at hand.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 9, 2023 5:33 AM

So... I need to redesign part of my layout to lose 6" of width.

Crying

I have never been good a drawing track plans. Is AnyRail easy to use?

I can't build it in 1:1 scale again.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • 213 posts
Posted by reasearchhound on Thursday, April 6, 2023 11:28 PM

Thanks Dave. Another member has taken on the job using AnyRail. He seems to be making pretty good progress.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 6, 2023 10:44 PM

reasearchhound
We are now in need of a scale drawing of the final layout so areas for scenery and structures can be marked out and assigned for development. What we are hoping to find is a program which would allow us to do such a drawing. We could then get it enlarged and the post it in a wall for members to view.

Hi Dan,

The previous poster, CharlieM, suggested staying away from 3D drawings, but I think that the capacity to draw things in 3D would suit your purposes perfectly. You will be able to see exactly what your hills and mountains, tunnel portals, valleys etc. will look like. With 3rd PlanIt you can even draw your structures in 3D and place them at the proper elevations.

Here is one of the 3D drawings that I created with 3rd PlanIt:

Cheers!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    May 2021
  • From: Northern Colorado
  • 86 posts
Posted by CharlieM on Thursday, April 6, 2023 5:32 PM

Re getting started in Cad rail: I laid out  my entire pike in  CadRail. I began with the empty room, added furniture, laid in the benchwork, the plywood surface, the various tracks, the inclines, the roads, the scenery outlines, the buildings, even the Tortoises. Each group is represented by a separate layer and color. It then becomes very easy to see what will fit and how it will work in the overall scheme. It’s invaluable to be able to see where a turnout, with it’s Tortoise, will fit on the layout and in the existing benchwork. It’s also important to keep the drawing up to date as changes are made and errors are found so it can be used for future mods. It’s really frustrating to plan and install a turnout, only to find the Tortoise is sitting right on top of a 1x4  benchwork member. I use CadRail to draw control panels, design and document the electrical schematics, and even produce artwork for signs. A true multiuse CAD program; and it’s a lot easier/cheaper to fix and error than with wood and track.
The learning curve is steep but can be conquered  and it’s even fun. The secret, as with any software, is to learn as you work on real projects. If you are working on real problems you will learn the techniques you need and better remember them. Save your work frequently as new backups so you can revert to earlier versions.  Stay with two dimensions, not three.  My mind has a hard enough time working in two dimensions.
The effort to learn and use CadRail will repay you many times over as your layout grows and changes.
  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Central Texas
  • 365 posts
Posted by MJ4562 on Thursday, April 6, 2023 1:48 PM

Anyone care to share their experience with AnyRail?  How does it compare with CADrail which I know is a full CAD program.  

Any tips for getting into CADRail?  I tried it years ago but didn't have the patience to learn it.  Maybe because I wasn't prepared to build a layout at the time but now I am. 

  • Member since
    April 2023
  • 29 posts
Posted by Lost in A2 on Sunday, April 2, 2023 8:23 AM

reasearchhound
A member has a friend who has used Anyrail and the guy said he would help show the person in the club who decides to take this on how to use it. Hopefully that will do the job.  Thanks again to all of you who responded with suggestions - they were all greatly appreciated!

 

It's a little late, but I'll mention XTrackCAD. It runs on Windows, Linux, and MacOS, but requires X11. (I use XQuartz on my Mac Mini.) It's available at https://sourceforge.net/projects/xtrkcad-fork/

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • 213 posts
Posted by reasearchhound on Wednesday, March 29, 2023 10:07 AM

UPinIdaho

Dan, If your club has any thoughts of using JMRI for train control at some point I would suggest drawing the layout in AnyRail as has a small learning curve and an easily imported into the PanelPro portion of JMRI.  As far as getting the scale drawing out of any planning software it is simply a matter of having it printed 1:1 rather than 1:87.

Good luck     

 

A member has a friend who has used Anyrail and the guy said he would help show the person in the club who decides to take this on how to use it. Hopefully that will do the job. 

Thanks again to all of you who responded with suggestions - they were all greatly appreciated!

Dan

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,774 posts
Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, March 29, 2023 9:58 AM

Hi there. I've been using the Atlas software (free version) for a few years. It's fairly easy to figure out, but simplicity also means that it has limitations. For instance, I don't think you can add buildings to the plan. Of course, you could always take a screen shot of the plan and add buildings using another software package, or print and draw them by hand, but that kinda defeats the purpose.

For our club, I find that having printouts of the plan is useful - we used them to identify the names of sections, sectors, towns and industries for operations. Eventually, I would like to do an "electrical" plan of the layout using a printout. 

Simon

  • Member since
    June 2022
  • 96 posts
Posted by IC_Tom on Wednesday, March 29, 2023 8:12 AM

Yeah, all the CAD systems have a learning curve - some of them huge.  There are some similarities, but by and large, they are all vastly different.  Now that I'm retired, the last thing I wanted to do was CAD work.  These days, I hate it.  But manual drafting?  Oh ... My ... God. Pounce, triangles, (or a drafting machine that never stayed straight?), erasing shields and power erasers? NEVER again.

The analogy with computer programming is not valid.  The analogy is writing a computer program with punch cards vs. writing a program with a computerized graphical programming interface.

It's not repetition, it's all about changes.  Try correcting a grammatical error with hundreds of lines of codes on punch cards that you have to punch, shuffle and order, then physically load and compile (with errors), vs. writing the program on a PC, running it immediately, then correcting and trying again - almost instantaneously.  There is no comparison.

With CAD layout planning software, there are extensive libraries with mfr track and turnouts, allowing you to design the layout and benchwork with multiple measurements, then you cut the wood once.  And beware - not all the mfrs make the same track fittings you want and not all of them match up the same.  Turnout lengths are different, turnout angles are hugely different for the same # turnout and crossings are different.  Making these mistakes on paper or worse - on wood - is a huge PITA.

You pay the price for the learning curve up front or you pay it in wasted wood, track, or worse, later on.  Paying a professional layout designer is really the only easier route than CAD, but it costs $$$.

  • Member since
    July 2022
  • 32 posts
Posted by Onewolf42 on Tuesday, March 28, 2023 6:15 AM

I have used and will continue to use 3rdPlanit to design my layouts.  Is there a significant CAD learning curve?  Absolutely.  But the software provided me the ability to design a complex 3 level mushroom layout and it allowed me to visualize (and run trains) in 3D which allowed me to refine the design before any benchwork was built.

 

Another advantage of CAD software is that it doesn't allow you to "cheat" with respect to what track/turnouts will fit/work in a given area.  With pen/paper it's very easy to design something that doesn't actually fit/work in the real world.

 

I'm starting to work on the next layout design and it will certainly be done in 3rdPlanit.

 

Is CAD track planning software for everyone? No. Is it a very valuable tool for people who embrace computer technology?  Yes.

 

http://www.onewolf.org/Album/LayoutConstruction/index.html

  • Member since
    March 2023
  • 2 posts
Posted by UPinIdaho on Monday, March 27, 2023 4:00 PM

Dan, If your club has any thoughts of using JMRI for train control at some point I would suggest drawing the layout in AnyRail as has a small learning curve and an easily imported into the PanelPro portion of JMRI.  As far as getting the scale drawing out of any planning software it is simply a matter of having it printed 1:1 rather than 1:87.

Good luck     

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • 213 posts
Posted by reasearchhound on Monday, March 27, 2023 9:05 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone. Sharing them with some of the guys in the club and will decide what direction we may go.

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Monday, March 27, 2023 7:53 AM

doctorwayne

 

 
John-NYBW
PS. Then there is the George Selios approach. I think it was in the first Allen Keller video on the F&SM that he said he never used a plan. He just figured out on the fly where the track should go and would lay it there.

 

That was pretty much similar to my trackplanning...I didn't see any need for a drawing, as I had it all in my head, and it seemed to unfold just as I had envisioned that it would.

Wayne

 

That's my preferred method as well.  Of course, my plans are relatively simple. 

I do end up taking some time to lay and re-lay important parts like curve exit points and turnout combinations to get the angles correct, but I figure I'd be fiddling around with that anyway as I try to convert a digital plan to the benchwork....measuring and remeasuring, or repositioning printed templates.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, March 27, 2023 3:35 AM

BATMAN

I was thinking something along the lines of what Rich was saying but not quite. Take photos straight down of sections of the layout and then stitch them all together with a photo program and then use a drawing program to draw in the things to be added. There is not much to learn to be able to do that and the programs to do so are likely already on your computer. 

You could then have it all on a tablet to refer to at the club or print it off in sections or as a whole.

 

Yes, definitely photograph the layout from directly above it rather than from ground level. That way, you get a more accurate representation of the space available.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, March 26, 2023 9:28 PM

John-NYBW
PS. Then there is the George Selios approach. I think it was in the first Allen Keller video on the F&SM that he said he never used a plan. He just figured out on the fly where the track should go and would lay it there.

That was pretty much similar to my trackplanning...I didn't see any need for a drawing, as I had it all in my head, and it seemed to unfold just as I had envisioned that it would.

Wayne

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 26, 2023 9:03 PM

Hi Dan,

I am a real fan of 3rd PlanIt. I used it to design a 20' x 25' plan for my old train club as well as a couple of plans for myself.

One feature of 3rd PlanIt is that it allows you to print your plan at whatever ratio you want. I printed my current track plan at 1:1 and then glued it directly to the top of my layout. You could print the plan at whatever ratio would be easy for you to work with (1:1 would be rather unwieldy to hang on a wall), and you can make multiple copies on any standard printer so several people could have their own copies to work with. Taping the individual printed sheets together is easy.

In your case you already have a track plan so you will not use a lot of the design features. What you will be able to do is plot the existing track pattern into 3rd PlanIt using X-Y axis measurements. You would start in the lower left  corner of your layout where X=0", Y=0" and then use a grid (maybe 12" squares) to measure where the track crosses a grid line. You would also plot the through track ends for each turnout. That will give you a series of points and all you have to do is 'connect the dots' using the various joining tools in the program.

I would be more than happy to help you through the process.

https://www.eldoradosoft.com

Cheers!!

Dave

P.S.

One critical point regarding using a home printer to make a 1:1 copy of the layout (regardless of the track planning software brand) is that you have to make sure that the printer is actually printing at full size. Quite often, printers will undersize the actual print so that, for example, the copy of an item that is 12" long may be printed at 11 1/2" long. To check your printer for accuracy, make a copy of a ruler and check the copy against the actual ruler to make sure they are the same size.

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!