lifeontheranch The throwbar requires something to rest on i.e. your cork. With nothing under it the throwbar will drop slightly causing the point rails to misalign with the stock rails. Been there, tried that, didn't work. The metal rivets are used to secure throwbar to point rails. The Tortoise wire goes through a drilled hole in the center of the the throwbar. The drilled hole does not have an eyelet. At least that is how my WS switches are constructed out of the box. If it matters, mine are the 4 digit pt number DCC friendly versions. Interesting side note... of the 72 switches I purchased, 28 of them did not have predrilled throwbar center holes.
The throwbar requires something to rest on i.e. your cork. With nothing under it the throwbar will drop slightly causing the point rails to misalign with the stock rails. Been there, tried that, didn't work.
The metal rivets are used to secure throwbar to point rails. The Tortoise wire goes through a drilled hole in the center of the the throwbar. The drilled hole does not have an eyelet. At least that is how my WS switches are constructed out of the box. If it matters, mine are the 4 digit pt number DCC friendly versions.
Interesting side note... of the 72 switches I purchased, 28 of them did not have predrilled throwbar center holes.
My turnouts are quite old so are not DCC friendly. I bought them shortly before Atlas came out with their #8s and I like using the Atlas under table switch machines which won't work with the WS turnouts. When I decided to add this crossover, I decided to use these old turnouts rather than buying Atlas turnouts and that's when I decided to give Tortoise a try. Since WS turnouts don't have insulated frogs, the Tortoise will handle that. My turnouts look slighly different than yours. The metal strip on the throw bar is one solid piece. there is no break in it where the hole is.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
John-NYBW David Popp recommended using a cutoff wheel to trim the wire and specifically recommended against using a rail nippers which is what I've always used with the plastic Atlas turnout machines. He didn't say why but it seems that would be simpler than using the cutoff wheel which I also have.
David Popp recommended using a cutoff wheel to trim the wire and specifically recommended against using a rail nippers which is what I've always used with the plastic Atlas turnout machines. He didn't say why but it seems that would be simpler than using the cutoff wheel which I also have.
The reason why is because the piano wire is hard.
If you try cutting it with Xuron rail cutters or sprue trimmers, you'll end up with a half-moon indentation in each cutting edge. Don't ask how I know that.
Good luck.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
John-NYBW I'm guessing, the .047 diameter might be a little tight so it sounds like .032 might be the sweet spot.
Rich
Alton Junction
lifeontheranch Using Walthers Shinohara switches. Had same problem. Heavier wire fixed it. Tortoise is supplied with 0.025" wire. Substituted 0.039" where Tortoise was close underneath switch. Substituted 0.047" where Tortoise was further below switch (through thick foam). K&S offers piano wire found at most hobby shops. Requires sharp stout wire cutters to cut. Drill actuator and fulcrum to accomodate larger wire. [EDIT] Mistyped. 0.032" changed to 0.039". Sorry.
Using Walthers Shinohara switches. Had same problem. Heavier wire fixed it. Tortoise is supplied with 0.025" wire. Substituted 0.039" where Tortoise was close underneath switch. Substituted 0.047" where Tortoise was further below switch (through thick foam). K&S offers piano wire found at most hobby shops. Requires sharp stout wire cutters to cut. Drill actuator and fulcrum to accomodate larger wire.
[EDIT] Mistyped. 0.032" changed to 0.039". Sorry.
I saw .032 on Amazon but I'll keep looking to see if they have .039. The closest LHS is almost an hour drive one way but as of Monday, the governor of Ohio closed all non-essential businesses until further notice so that isn't an option anyway.
The music wire used for this is a hardened steel. The jaws of a rail nipper are not hardened - nickel silver is a rather soft metal. If you try to use the rail nipper to cut steel wire, it will instead cut the jaws of the rail nipper, the softer material, and they will never again make a clean cut on rail.
Cutting the Atlas plastic pins with the rail nipper is no problem. You can almost always use a tool on softer material than it was designed for, but using it on a harder material will ruin the tool. I have a pair of heavy duty cutters to use, and even those are getting a bit crusty along the edges from cutting the wire.
Something to keep in mind if using a cutter like that - hold on to the free (or what will become the free) end, and wear eye protection. The end you cut off with such cutters WILL go shooting off eith not insignificant force, and you definitely do not want a sharp piece of wire poking into your eye.
ANother thing about heavy duty hardened cutters - they tend to be large. Not so large as to have problems with HO, but on N scale you would have a hard time clipping the wire off close to the top of the throwbar since the jaws won't fit down between the rails.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
John-NYBW gregc can you do something to make the points move more freely? Right now there is nothing but bare cork roadbed under the track and the only thing I can think of would be to remove the cork under the throw bar. In the past I've used foam roadbed and that has a way of binding which is why I went with cork for this installation. I'm going to try a stiffer wire to see if that's the answer.
gregc can you do something to make the points move more freely?
can you do something to make the points move more freely?
Right now there is nothing but bare cork roadbed under the track and the only thing I can think of would be to remove the cork under the throw bar. In the past I've used foam roadbed and that has a way of binding which is why I went with cork for this installation. I'm going to try a stiffer wire to see if that's the answer.
rrinker The only time I had to use heavier wire was when going through thicker than usual materials - like 2" of foam. Then the included wire would just bend. But those were also Atlas turnouts, which the points easily flop from side to side - just tilting the turnout flops the points over. The Shinohara probably have a contacts that slides under the stock rail, making the points a bit stiff - they will move slightly, but need a slight force to puch them against the stock rail. So thicker wire may be needed here. You can get it at most any hobby shop. .032 should be stiff enough, it worked through 2" foam for me. Be sure your hole under the throwbar is big enough and the wire isn;t hitting the sides of the hole instead of fully moving to the side. You need a cutoff wheel or heavy duty wire nippers to cut this stuff - do NOT use your track cutters, you will ruin them. --Randy
The only time I had to use heavier wire was when going through thicker than usual materials - like 2" of foam. Then the included wire would just bend. But those were also Atlas turnouts, which the points easily flop from side to side - just tilting the turnout flops the points over. The Shinohara probably have a contacts that slides under the stock rail, making the points a bit stiff - they will move slightly, but need a slight force to puch them against the stock rail. So thicker wire may be needed here. You can get it at most any hobby shop. .032 should be stiff enough, it worked through 2" foam for me.
Be sure your hole under the throwbar is big enough and the wire isn;t hitting the sides of the hole instead of fully moving to the side.
You need a cutoff wheel or heavy duty wire nippers to cut this stuff - do NOT use your track cutters, you will ruin them.
These Shinora turnouts have a metal ring around the hole in the throw bar so they can't be expaned without removing the ring and that would likely damage the throwbar which also has a metal strip on top. A 1/16 drill bit will not pass through the hole and if my arithmetic is correct that is about .06" diameter. I'm guessing, the .047 diameter might be a little tight so it sounds like .032 might be the sweet spot.
David Popp recommended using a cutoff wheel to trim the wire and specifically recommended against using a rail nippers which is what I've always used with the plastic Atlas turnout machines. He didn't say why but you seem to have answered that question.
For years I have used Atlas Custom Line turnouts powered by Tortoises. I replace the original wire with K&S 0.039 music wire. My layout is 1/2 plywood and 5 mm foam roadbed. The opening in the plywood is created with a 5/8" drill bit. Same procedure for Walthers Shinohara turnouts, curved, 3-way, double slip.
Never a problem.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
This is my first experience installing a Tortoise. Most of my turnouts are Atlas using their under table switch machines. I've just installed a pair of Walthers/Shinora #8 turnouts to create a crossover on my double track main. The turnouts set on 1/8" cork roadbed on top of 3/4" plywood.
I watched David Popp's installation video as well as another YouTube video and I believe I followed the steps correctly as far as alignment. When I got the first Tortoise installed and tried it out, it wasn't moving the points. I could see underneath the the Tortoise was moving side to side but was not getting movement in the points. Initially I had the fulcrum at the top but tried it in the middle and then at the bottom. I found that in its lowest position I got a little bit of movement but not enough to align the points correctly. I am able to move the points from side to side with my finger but the actuating rod isn't able to move them. It appears to me the rod is bending rather than throwing the tie bar. In the YouTube video I looked at, the presenter substituted a slightly stiffer wire for the actuating rod and I'm wondering if that is the solution. I went to Amazon and found music wire that looks like it might be the answer. They offer it in .020, .032, .047, and .078 diameters. Which would be the best choice? Are there other things I should try first?