TF good thing you qualified that with a location, becasue I have been in this house 7 1/2 years ago, my basement has been totally prepped since February this year, I've been working from home since March for obvious reasons, and I STILL don't have one stick of track down. Don't have any subroadbed in place even.
The key to soldering track sections together: A good soldering iron with a CLEAN tip - a soldering station does a better job than an always on type of simple iron. But the CLEAN tip is important - it allows the heat to transfer faster. And the faster the heat transfers to the point you are trying to solder, the less time you have to hold the iron in contact with the rail, and the less chance of melting ties. Second thing is to use a little flux in the joiner. Put some flux in the joiner, slide it on the first rail, then slide the second rail on. Heat the inside, and apply solder to the outside. It should suck in and under the joiner. Quickly, and without melting anything.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Track fiddlerI know people are probably getting sick of me saying it, but I think that Rotisserie Layout of yours is a stroke of Genius Dave. I am very much looking forward to seeing the progress here
Hi TF,
I am really looking forward to seeing how well my concept works for the wiring. The track wiring won't be anything unusual, but with duplicate control panels on either side of the layout controlling 24 Tortoises with frog polarity, plus 20 uncouplers and 24 signals, there are going to be a lot of wires under the layout. I'm not worried. Many others have done this before me. It's just a question of doing things one step at a time.
Thanks for your support!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave you are a good people and I will always wish the best for you.
Being a carpenter my whole life I have never reached a point where I am not willing to learn and never will.
I know people are probably getting sick of me saying it, but I think that Rotisserie Layout of yours is a stroke of Genius Dave. I am very much looking forward to seeing the progress here
Don't be in any hurry. Take your time! Steady As She Goes I Always Say and I got that one from my Grandfather. Honestly I think I am the slowest layout builder in the Upper Midwest. I just want to see everything right this time around and I'm just fine with that.
My phone charge is at 4%. I'm plugging it in and hitting the rack. Everyone have a wonderful night
TF
Track fiddlerP.S. I feel for ya with your back Dave. I've been hard on my old bod all my life. When my back goes out sometimes and takes too long to go back in. It scares me! One doesn't think about or appreciate his back until it hurts like that.
Thanks TF,
My hope that I could do a lot of the layout work from a sitting position hasn't quite been realized yet. The problem is that I still have too much junk in the garage so there isn't enough space for my rolling workbench chair to fit in beside the layout. We will have to make a serious effort to get rid of the junk!
I have been able to make small steps forward. I got my hot blade foam cutter in the mail today and it works better than I expected. I was able to cut out the basic shape of the major water feature tonight but my back was killing me by the time I was done. If I pace myself I will survive the constant back pain. One of the reasons I love the forums is that I can do some work until my back gives out and then sit down comfortably and spend some time here with friends.
Cheers!!
That was a great idea Dave.
Now that I live in my downsized condo, you should see me trying to do carpentry work for my layout around this place.
It go down to the lower level in my truck and string out hundred foot extension cords to get out by the dumpster where I can set up my horses, ... and people peep out windows to see what I'm doing
P.S. I feel for ya with your back Dave. I've been hard on my old bod all my life. When my back goes out sometimes and takes too long to go back in. It scares me! One doesn't think about or appreciate his back until it hurts like that.
Track fiddlerP.S. I know why you picked such an odd witdh of 5' 4" for the width for your 12-foot layout. The cut off pieces for the center section sure doesn't leave any waste
You are absolutely correct! I didn't want to be faced with the task of having to cut 4'x8' sheets of plywood myself, and I figured that giving the lumber mill instructions for making multiple cuts was just an opportunity for screw ups.
The 5'4" width allows for reasonable radii in the curves (I'm planning on 22" - 24" on the main lines) without having the track right at the edge of the layout. I could make the radii larger obviously but I believe that being able to have scenery on the outside of the track will look much better.
Evening Dave
What Randy said I see he's a fan of T pins too. They hold great through cork into the foam for temporary works.
When I had my afterthought of rapping my track around the outside of the layout to get to the unused lower level for a future lumber mill. I angled the T pins on the outside of the ties angled towards the center so I could see how many cars one locomotive would pull up a 2 1/2 percent grade. My fingers may have been a little sore pushing them all in and they worked great.
I will probably pin my radiused track this way after I do my dreaded soldering of the joints I hate soldering track, I always melted the ties when I was a kid
I need to go to a track soldering counselor to get my confidence back up again
T pins work great Dave, skip on those stubby little bulletin board thumb tacks. I still have three boxes of those from the dollar store still in the package because I did not like them
Hi Randy,
Okay, I see something in your picture that I hadn't noticed before. You are pushing the T pins all the way down so the head is resting on the ties. Now I understand how to use them. For some strange reason I had assumed that you only pushed them in half way. I guess I was thinking back to my high school science classes when we were dissecting worms.
Thanks,
Yes, those kind of pins do a great job of holding the track - thay are what I used on my previous layout. They are pretty long, and the wide head lets you use them to clamp the ties down. Keep them out of the exact center, but not against the rail, and you can run trains over track help by them. Here you can see them pinning a section of track in place:
This is straight, but they also hold fine on curves - remember this layout was using Atlas flex, which wants to spring back, but I had no problem with it changing position after the pins were in place. Even running a locomotive around a curve before the caulk set up didn't shift the track under the pins.
Track fiddlerI want to T pin all my track down dry so I can iron out any imperfections or kinks before I put the 50/50 wood glue/water mixture in between the ties to set the track last.
Okay, of course that makes perfect sense. Applying glue before the track was in place would make for a real mess!
I'm going to order some pins to hold the track in place. However, I have a couple more questions:
I noticed that you used 'T' pins, but I'm wondering if they actually put enough pressure on the track to hold it down firmly against the cork? Obviously they will hold the track from moving side to side, but I don't understand how they push the track down. Would 'stick pins' (the ones with the molded plastic heads) work better or are they too short to grip the cork properly? Is any significant downward pressure actually necessary?
Good morning Dave
You just have the last two steps reversed.
I want to T pin all my track down dry so I can iron out any imperfections or kinks before I put the 50/50 wood glue/water mixture in between the ties to set the track last.
Track fiddlerI decided to do a few experiments before laying my track that I would like to share with you. I wanted to lay the track completely dry first if I possibly can as I know this would allow me more time to get everything perfect before gluing it down. The experiment that worked the best I will illustrate for you.
Hi TF!
This is my understanding of what you have done in your experiment:
- Glue the cork roadbed in place with caulk,
- Once the caulk is dry, apply a coating of caulk to the cork using a wallpaper roller to give the surface of the caulk some texture,
- Once dry, place the track and apply a 50/50 mix of carpenter's glue and water,
- Hold the track in place with T pins until the glue dries.
Do I have that correct?
hon30critter The last sheet of plywood has been installed. Next step is to install the 2" foam. Then I can draw out the track plan so I can see where the cork has to go. I have decided to lay the cork right on the foam. No fussing with another layer of plywood or Homasote! Cheers!! Dave
The last sheet of plywood has been installed. Next step is to install the 2" foam. Then I can draw out the track plan so I can see where the cork has to go.
I have decided to lay the cork right on the foam. No fussing with another layer of plywood or Homasote!
Hi Dave
That's exactly the way my brother and I are laying our track. We both have our cork down and used a wallpaper roller to apply the Alex Plus on back to roll the caulk consistently.
I decided to do a few experiments before laying my track that I would like to share with you. I wanted to lay the track completely dry first if I possibly can as I know this would allow me more time to get everything perfect before gluing it down.
The experiment that worked the best I will illustrate for you.
I used white caulk so you can see the texture the wallpaper roller leaves on top of the cork. When I lay my track I will use clear caulk of course.
I let the caulk completely dry before I pinned my track to it. The caulk not only acts as a polymer for good adhesion but also acts as a sound deadening buffer so after ballast you don't get as much of a drumming sound.
The texture provides perforations for a good 50/50 wood glue/water mixture to flow under the ties. I used Titebond professional strength. I used a little red pumpkin carving tool to drip it in about every third Tie. I'm sure an eyedropper would work better and faster for HO.
I do believe the dry caulk acted as an accelerator. Only 3-4 hours later I stuck my trusty Shay knife underneath and the track just laughed at me and said I'm staying. It was solid, I felt if I would have pried any harder I would have broke the track.
Gluing down my track after I have it all exactly the way I want it, sure is going to help me out and that's exactly what I'm going to do I'm going to tell my brother about it tonight when he gets home from work, I told you first
P.S. I know why you picked such an odd witdh of 5' 4" for the width for your 12-foot layout. The cut off pieces for the center section sure doesn't leave any waste
hon30critter I Love 3rd PlanIt! I just finished plotting all the positions for the ends of each piece of track plus the radii, and all the turnouts to within 1/32". Okay. I admit that 1/32" is a ridiculously fine tolerance for laying track, but that's what the program gives me. Once the foam is glued down I will be able to draw the track centerlines and start laying cork. Cheers!! Dave
I Love 3rd PlanIt! I just finished plotting all the positions for the ends of each piece of track plus the radii, and all the turnouts to within 1/32". Okay. I admit that 1/32" is a ridiculously fine tolerance for laying track, but that's what the program gives me. Once the foam is glued down I will be able to draw the track centerlines and start laying cork.
Yes, this is why I can generally place my roadbed and track once and be done, just doing fine aligmnet during the tracklaying process - like sighting down straight sections to make sure they are straight, making sure there are no kins or tight spots in a curve, etc. I used 3rd PlanIt on plenty of never-built layouts, including one that was going to go in my old small basement until things changed and we had to move to a 3x as big basement.
hon30critterI think I'm going to carve the water features in it before glueing it down.
What do you use to cut the foam?
I had a full compliment of Hot Wire Foam Factory tools, but my youngest daughter stole all of the when she moved out, and I need new tools.
This one is less than $25.00 on Amazon and looks promising.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The foam is in place. I think that took me all of 10 minutes to do! So easy! It isn't glued down yet. I think I'm going to carve the water features in it before glueing it down.
carl425Screws make better clamps than nails. They especially work better when you're trying to force a little warp out of a piece of lumber.
Hi carl425,
You are right. I was much happier working with the screws even though the 1/4" plywood was actually pretty straight. I still have to install the last sheet but I have to shave a bit off of one side because it is too tight a fit as is. No big deal.
snjroyDave, if the benchwork bends, you might have problems with cracks in your scenery later. Have you thought of adding one or two cross-beams?
Hi Simon,
I think that a couple of removable legs would be easier to do. The span between the supports would only be a little over six feet with the legs in place so there wouldn't likely be any flexing. Using removable legs would also keep the underside of the layout clear from additional obstructions.
rrinker If it's glued down, brads, screws, doesn't really matter.
Screws make better clamps than nails. They especially work better when you're trying to force a little warp out of a piece of lumber.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
hon30critter I just had a bit of a revelation when installing the 1/4" plywood sheets (I got the second one installed by the way). What I discovered is that the benchwork is not quite as rigid as I thought it was. When I was installing the plywood sheet in the middle of the 12' span there was a bit more deflection than I had hoped for when I leaned on the benchwork. No problem. I will build a couple of temporary legs to support the middle of the layout when it doesn't need to be rotated. I suspect that several of you would have already guessed that that would happen. Cheers!! Dave
I just had a bit of a revelation when installing the 1/4" plywood sheets (I got the second one installed by the way). What I discovered is that the benchwork is not quite as rigid as I thought it was. When I was installing the plywood sheet in the middle of the 12' span there was a bit more deflection than I had hoped for when I leaned on the benchwork. No problem. I will build a couple of temporary legs to support the middle of the layout when it doesn't need to be rotated.
I suspect that several of you would have already guessed that that would happen.
Dave, if the benchwork bends, you might have problems with cracks in your scenery later. Have you thought of adding one or two cross-beams?
Simon
SeeYou190Down here working for Amazon is a good job to have. They do pay well for the people I know who work there, but Florida is notorious for lower wages overall, so it might be somewhat skewed.
Hi Kevin,
I was speaking in terms of their front line employees. Here in Ontario they start at a little over $15.00/hr. That's barely more than what fast food employees are paid. You can't own a house on that wage. You can barely afford to pay rent, to say nothing of saving for retirement.
Bezos is going to break the $200 billion mark sometime soon. Something is wrong. He needs to take a lesson from Henry Ford.
hon30critterI just wish Jeff Bezos would pay his people more. He can certainly afford to.
My middle daughter is a software engineer for Amazon in Seattle. She is paid quite well.
Down here working for Amazon is a good job to have. They do pay well for the people I know who work there, but Florida is notorious for lower wages overall, so it might be somewhat skewed.
SeeYou190I have only recently begun to use Amazon for purchases. They do an excellent job, and seem to have much better selection of house parts than even the big box stores.
I just wish Jeff Bezos would pay his people more. He can certainly afford to.
hon30critterThank goodness for Amazon!
I have only recently begun to use Amazon for purchases. They do an excellent job, and seem to have much better selection of house parts than even the big box stores.
If it's glued down, brads, screws, doesn't really matter. The glue is stronger than either. The advantage of screws is that theoretically you could take it apart - if it wasn't also glued.
I've thought about getting nail guns to make things go faster, but then I need a bigger compressor to run them, or buy really expensive battery powered ones. Taking things apart isn't a problem, I'd just have to rip off the backdrops to get to the screws holding the verticals to the walls. It's what would happen anyway, since I am gluing the screwed together joints.
Once your glue dries, with the plywood glued and screwed in, the whole thing should get a lot more rigid. Even the thin skin will add a lot of strength to the open framework.
Third sheet of plywood glued and screwed! I have run out of screws. Thank goodness for Amazon!
SeeYou190Dave, It might be a blessing in disguise that you brad nailer gave you problems. I am certain the screws are a better choice.
You are no doubt correct. All I wanted to do with the brads was to hold the plywood down until the glue dried. However, the time spent fussing with the nailer probably allowed the glue dry out significantly, so the screws will hopefully have addressed that issue. I will use predrilled screws plus glue on the rest of the sheets. I'm tired of fussing around! I want to move forward!