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NOW WHAT?????

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:03 PM

We need a track plan.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:06 PM

OK, this seems like its beginnnig to form into a plan...am I understanding this correctly: a continuous run track (closed track) made posssible by a swing gate with two towns and scenery. If so, I like it! Could I also have sidings at the towns, spurs along the way and some other interest makers for my rr? Could I run two conbtinuous runs in order to run two trains at once?  Doc

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:10 PM

Doc, right now we are talking in the abstract.  Two run two trains at the same time you will need at least one siding and all the other stuff, e.g. spurs, depends on your space and on the mainline route.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but we need a track plan.  A track plan will draw others to this thread the way honey draws flies.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:17 PM

Sidings an spurs are good, far as "industries" in MRR lingo an industry is ANY trackside facility that is served by the railroad, so and industry could be a steel mill, power plant, quarry, lumber mill, mine, auto factory, even a small local business, so you could have a freight house by the passenger stations, and maybe a Dairy farm or something rural, maybe have a furniture company, or brewery in the town(s) just something to provide operation options.

I prefer mountainous rural scenery in the western US that said I still am going to have a yard and a few "industries" on my layout, otherwise you might end up with an overgrown trainset that you'll quickly become disinterested in. 

This is all for you to decide I'm just passing along information.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:19 PM

The setting is Merry Old England, I vote for a gin distillery.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:32 PM

Well...it's hard to go wrong with gin.  (I can't believe I said that after 30 years as a pastor...now retired and morphed into a professor of philosophy and religion...can't go wrong with gin???).... Well, with what you all have already given me, I can take another look at some of the track books I have (I have 3 from Model Railroader) and run one up the pole and see if it flies. At least, with the option of a swing gate I can look at some closed circuit rr's. Doc

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 4:40 PM

Hey, with a gin distillery you can have rolling stock delivering raw materials to the distillery, and loaded box cars delivering Beefeaters or Bombay to whereever.  And, believe me, you will find a new religion when it is time to ballast the track work.  Ballasting track is a pain but I have approached it as an experience in Zen.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by cx500 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:10 PM

We should also keep in mind that our experience is mostly with North American prototype models, and presumably this one will be strictly British.  While OO scale is slightly larger, it is more than offset by the smaller dimensions of the British equipment.  Narrower and shorter cars, and much lower overhead clearances.  That gives some leeway to squeeze what North American modelers normally consider minimums.  I don't recollect whether the OP said what era he was considering.

John

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:13 PM

Now you're getting somewhere.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:19 PM

OO - slightly bigger trains than HO which run on HO track.  I'm married to a Brit but that doesn't count.

If you modify the benchwork and cut back on the left side to allow a bigger right side you could have a dogbone in the shape of an upsidedown U.  Or a liftout bridge and leave the benchwork alone.

Now you are seeing why you need to design track plan AND benchwork on paper before building anything physical  Wink

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:24 PM

Hmmmmm...I'l have to study on that, Bear. Somebody mentioned a dairy for a spur...I think that might be more to my liking. Doc

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:25 PM

John, I hope to model post war England...late 40's to mid 50's. Doc

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 5:28 PM

Yep, I've learned my lesson but a month ago I didn't even realize this forum existed and I was just trying to maximize the space I had but all is not lost...the liftout bridge or swing gate is probably what I'll try to do if nobody is against it.  Doc

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:02 PM

I may be sorely wrong, but, wouldn't a swing gate or some such make coming up with a plan a much simpler process by briding/closing the circuit and making one large loop? What I'll try to do tomorrow is make some copies of my layout that I posted earlier and draw out the scenic elements I want to model and then re-post the updated layout and you all can tell me how to run the track(s). How's that for a winner winner chicken dinner?  Doc

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:08 PM

Doc, post the track plan based on your bench work, the scenery can wait.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:26 PM

So, let me get this straight. You don't want me to mark out the towns, cottage industries, etc...you want me to sketch out the track itself? I'm not sure I can do that, but if that's what you need, I'll give it a shot...and, by the way, on the gin deal, you do realize your talking to somebody from Kentucky...ever hear of Kentucky Bourbon??? Maker's Mark? Wild Turkey? Four Roses? etc, etc, etc, supposed to be the best Bourbon in the world. There is one distillery in Scotland that is supposed to be better, but Kentucky is known for its "fine bourbon, beautiful horses, and fast women"...wait a minute, I think that's supposed to be "fine bourbon, fast horses, and beautiful women!  Let meknow what you want from me on the track.  Doc

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 6:29 PM

Doc, I have heard of all of those bourbons, and Rebel Yell, Jack Daniels', Buffalo Trace, Jim Beam, and JW Dant.  And more.  I am a bourbon drinker.  Now, we need a track plan drawn to scale.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:35 PM

OK...at the risk of being found out as being incredibly stupid, I'm not sure what you mean by "drawn to scale". The layout plan I posted is drawn to a scale of 3 squares to a foot but if you're talking about drawing an actual track layout in 1/76 scale (OO) I don't know where or how to begin. I wil do it if you give me instructions on how to do it. I await your direction fine sir... Doc

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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:40 PM

that is all I mean and with the track plan drawn to the same scale.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 7:47 PM

I'll crank that out tomorrow ole settler.  Doc

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 8:23 PM

I think folks may be pushing the Original Poster too fast in a direction for which he's not yet prepared. Drawing a successful track plan to scale is more than just putting lines on the page, one needs to understand the way yards, passing sidings, industrial tracks, etc. work together. Mechanically, one needs to properly render turnouts, crossings, and other track elements to their precise sizes. In turn, this means choosing a manufacturer and track type.

Perhaps the good Doctor is up-to-speed, but more likely some study of Armstrong and of published track plans would be needed to help his efforts bear more fruit.

Building benchwork first has already created some unfortunate constraints, committing to a track plan too soon might not be the best step right now.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary – and good luck with your layout.

Byron

Edit: Although an expensive used book right now (it varies in price from time to time), Iain Rice's book Layout Design (Realistic Railway Modelling) is oriented to English modeling and would likely be a very useful reference -- if a bit dear.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:40 PM

Well, as far as I'm concerned Byron, you are the track and planning master on here, besides all of the books.  Thumbs Up

I like the OP's idea, a single purpose, passenegr service between to named towns, going through the West English coutry side, with a few extra siding options at each town.  More scenery than a massive bowl of track.

It seems he's willing to shorten the 4' wide space, to allow more space on the narrow end.

I'm sure you can help him out, as you have done with others.

Mike.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 9:43 PM

Doc, try getting a CAD program when you have some more reading done, and look into a MRR club some hands on will help, you will probably have to join an HO club but it's close enough to OO that the lessons will be transferable.

Steve

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Posted by bearman on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 4:56 AM

I defer to Cuyama's opinions and recommendations.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:41 AM

I have been lurking, so I gotta jump in.

Doc, you built the framework. Forget the books for the moment.

Go buy some track and start laying it. Buy a locomotive and some rolling stock (freight or passenger cars) and run some trains. That will raise issues, questions, and observations to bring back to the forum for resolution. You are worried about too much, too soon.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 6:48 AM

Reply to all in this one post:

It seems that Cuyanna is speaking from a standpoint of wisdom and the understanding that what you have here in me is indeed someone who is more of a novice than appearances allow. I have to admit, I worried all night about how i was going to "get the job done" today...and get it done right. I haven't priced the book he mentions but, barring anything over $75, I plan on ordering it today. I think Rich also has a good point in saying that, in addition to reading, I need some practical experience with how turnouts, curves, etc work in real time. I am going to follow his suggestion as well and pick up a train and some track. I at least know enough at this point to do that. I will try to keep everybody posted as to my progress, but probably won't go as quickly as I had started out. I now feel much better as i head out to work this morning and I do believe that - even with the constraints of having constructed the benchwork i have - that, with the addition of a swing gate or a bridge of some sort, things will turn out well...but, after all, perfection is not often reached on the first try but is a process that unfolds as both practical and theoretical knowledge and ability increase. I know but one thing for certain at this point and that is I have found a home on this site and have come to appreciate everything everyone has done to help me to this point. I really look forward to the time I can start to "give back" in some way. I think you have me for the long haul and, after all, it is the long haul that matters isn't it. I am grateful to all of you and hope to continue this conversation and many others in the days ahead.  Doc

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 6:54 AM

I love to poke around on Google Earth, and satalite views.  I was just checking out the Cotswold.  Does your proposed rail line cover any of the areas in this map of rail lines and stations in Cotswold?

Have a good day at work.

Mike.

 

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:09 AM

As it turns out we have a bit of a snow delay at the college this morning so I have not yet left for work. Thank you for this map. I wouldn't have thought to do this. I had initially planned on creating the distance between Stowe-on-the-Wold and a little village close by called Wells but having seen this, it might certainly be a better idea to model a section of the actual protypical rail line; especially since neither Stowe nor Wells are served by the railway. I have actually forgotten the name of the line and I need to firm that up in my mind as well. Again - thanks so much for this and what I will now do is try to locate some videos of sections of the line that may lend themselves well to modelling. Appreciate it Mike.  Doc

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:25 AM

cuyama
Drawing a successful track plan to scale is more than just putting lines on the page, one needs to understand the way yards, passing sidings, industrial tracks, etc. work together. Mechanically, one needs to properly render turnouts, crossings, and other track elements to their precise sizes. In turn, this means choosing a manufacturer and track type.

I have found that what works best for me is to look at the space available and, with the aid of a scale drawing of the room boundaries and features, visualize where key elements will need to fit - things such as curve -turnbacks (180 degree circumferance curves, 360 degree circumference curves), yards etc.  Then where walkways will need to go etc.  That gives me the basic possible track configuration options.  I think I'm on the same page as you.

As for turnouts, I measure the length and scale them in and along with the minimum track center spacings, I've found my scale drawing translate pretty well into full size track laying.  It seemed to work well enough on my yards for the past 3 layouts (the 2nd posted earlier in this topic).  Here is my most recent:

Perhaps the good Doctor is up-to-speed, but more likely some study of Armstrong and of published track plans would be needed to help his efforts bear more fruit.

I've heard of but never read Ian Rice's book, but John Armstrongs I've read over and over and it has been the basis of my personal layout design, along with reviewing many track plans in books and magazines.  About the only concept by John Armstrong that I wasn't able to wrap my head around was his "squares" ideal.  I disgarded that and used most everything else.

Building benchwork first has already created some unfortunate constraints, committing to a track plan too soon might not be the best step right now.

Having the benchwork built doesn't necessarily have to be a contraint.  The nice thing about wood is you can deconstruct it fairly easily, especially if drywall screws were used, and then modify or rebuild it to suite a best track plan for the space.  This, of course, is up to the builder.

Here are a few photo's of my deconstruction.  I've saved all of the wood and major benchwork sections for re-use and incorporation to a new layout.

Last section standing:

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 8:28 AM

richhotrain

I have been lurking, so I gotta jump in.

Doc, you built the framework. Forget the books for the moment.

Go buy some track and start laying it. Buy a locomotive and some rolling stock (freight or passenger cars) and run some trains. That will raise issues, questions, and observations to bring back to the forum for resolution. You are worried about too much, too soon.

Rich

Rich, have you looked at the benchwork dimensions?  Plot complication showing up on sensors now captain!  On the right side with a width of 36 inches, curve radii with HO track for OO trains will be a sardine tight 16 inches - so unless the OP is going to run a GE 44 tonner and only 40 freight cars, or equivelent short British OO equipment, that may be a "slight" problem.  Just sayin...

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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