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NOW WHAT?????

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Posted by NWP SWP on Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:13 PM

Doc, let me give you a few pointers, 1 let's say you have a 48" wide table now get 24" radius and lay it in a half circle you'll find the ends will hang over by half the track width, why? Because. Oh he's center field! The answer is the radius is if you multiply the radius by two you get the distance from track center to track center in a half circle.

2A all equipment has a "Minimum radius" which you usually want to go a little bigger than to be safe. So look at what you want to run and see its minimum radius. 2B radius also has a roll in turnouts the smaller the number (e.g./i.e. #4) the tighter the angle of the diverging route.

3 based on what you have you are going to have either a point to point or an all switching layout, something to add I love seeing trains just run BUT switching opportunities must be included otherwise you'll become very bored, very fast.

Now I don't want to bill myself as an expert I'm a "probie" (NCIS "probie" means probationary as in rookie or newbie) too albeit a very read up one, there are many here who have more experience than me and will add to this but may I suggest you add on to make a donut with a central operating pit (you could even have "aisles" on three sides to allow for more access) and that will accommodate your continuous running concept BUT first work out a track plan then do more construction, you'll find though that even donuts have restrictions especially with larger radii because the curves will eat your space. Good luck. And feel free to ask plenty of questions.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by bearman on Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:34 PM

Doc, you can probably install a stub end yard in that northern penninsula and use the five finger turntable to turn your locomotives around, although it looks like you will have enough room for a non-five finger turntable.  Run a loop around the west  into the southern area and then run the main back up the 2 ft westside up to the yard.  But, there is no way you can run a continuous loop with that 36 inch pennisula.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 7:36 AM

Men, after some thought I've decided I need to back up a bit and do some reading and study of railroading in general and model railroading in particular...terminology, etc. I have been so anxious to get something going that indeed, as was said earlier in this thread, I have gotten the cart before the horse. Many of the things spoken of in this thread just fell on not deaf but ignorant ears and that's no way to begin, so, I'm ordering more books. I have already subscribed to Model Railroader and Toy Trains magazines and I'm going to be a reader for a while...spring is coming soon and I've got 3 tractors that need restoring so I won't be short on something to do. In addition, maybe the reading and the study will go well and i will be able to work on model railroading while i read but i can see I don't need to be communicating when i don't even understand the language. I'll keep you posted as to my progress but otherwise will try to keep questions and eagerness in check. Blessings and thanks to all... Doc

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, March 12, 2018 8:18 AM

aprofitt0002
spring is coming soon and I've got 3 tractors that need restoring so I won't be short on something to do.

Cool.  Full size, or the lawn/garden variety?  My summer hobbies include old garden tractors.  I have few pictures in the photo link, you just have deal with the Photobucket pop-ups, and dig through my library.

I'm not on here much in the summer, so I understand completely.

Come on back when your ready!

Mike.

 

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 8:53 AM

Thanks, Mike...garden tractors. I'm currently restoring a 1967 Case 195 and have a JD 60 that is already restored. I've got a 1983 Case 210 that's waiting under a tarp. I recently sold a 1973 Case 448 and a 1998 JD 345. I'll be on here from time to time just to keep in touch with everyone and to ask the occasional question, but I'm so far less than ignorant when it comes to trains and modelling right now I'm sure it's laughable.  Doc

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Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, March 12, 2018 8:59 AM

aprofitt0002

Men, after some thought I've decided I need to back up a bit and do some reading and study of railroading in general and model railroading in particular...terminology, etc. I have been so anxious to get something going that indeed, as was said earlier in this thread, I have gotten the cart before the horse. Many of the things spoken of in this thread just fell on not deaf but ignorant ears and that's no way to begin, so, I'm ordering more books. I have already subscribed to Model Railroader and Toy Trains magazines and I'm going to be a reader for a while...spring is coming soon and I've got 3 tractors that need restoring so I won't be short on something to do. In addition, maybe the reading and the study will go well and i will be able to work on model railroading while i read but i can see I don't need to be communicating when i don't even understand the language. I'll keep you posted as to my progress but otherwise will try to keep questions and eagerness in check. Blessings and thanks to all... Doc 

I mentioned on here before about the mistakes I made when I started my layout. I didn't know what I was doing and bit off more than I could chew. Then, instead of starting over and making it right, I kept modifying what I had and making things worse. Now, I have a section that needs scenery, but I can't reach the area, even with a ladder.

This is no excuse, but there was no internet or this great forum to ask questions. Take advantage of both. 

Take your time, do your research, and make it right, even if you have to change some of your benchwork. Otherwise, today's mistakes will snowball into a mess.

South Penn
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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:04 AM

Doc, we were all there at one time or another, and some of us have not improved on our ignorance all that much.  If I were to give you any parting advice, after you have some research under your belt, you may find that you will want to tear up the benchwork to accommodate the lay out plan that you settle on.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:20 AM
Thanks my friend. That is exactly what I intend to do as much as space allows. Doc
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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:21 AM
Thanks Bear...a lot of labor, but if that's the best way to go, then so be it. Space is my biggest constraint. Doc
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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:36 AM

Doc, you have a 120 sq ft area to play with.  Obviously the footprint of the final layout will not be that big once you factor in reach, aisles, etc.  But you can put a lot of layout into that space.  I tore up my second layout, without ever coming close to finishing it, for the reasons that South Penn mentioned.  It was a mess.  Tearing out benchwork is easy, tearing out track in an attempt to save and reuse it it is a real pain.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 10:10 AM
I am using a bit less than 120 sq ft right now but, with some additional re-arranging I might be able to squirrel out 120 sq ft. Is that the critical mass for a worthy layout? Also, since I've got you on the line...I hate to even consider it, but should I be thinking of N scale? I really hope not since I wanted to stick with OO in the British tradition. You can let me know... Thanks, Doc
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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 10:23 AM

One of the things I have to research is the different ways of turning trains/locomotives around other than loops and wyes. Doc

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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 10:31 AM

You will have to do some research on OO, I have absolutlely no idea about it.  My layout is an around the walls folded dogbone walk-in U with a 55 +/- sq ft footprint of the layout itself.  This does not include the area inside the U.  In my opinion,  a worthy layout is what you want to do and what is fun for you.  For example, there is one member of my club who is perfectly happy with a 2 X 12 switching layout.  You already have some idea of what you want, it is just a matter of doing some research to make sure your idea is doable, but yu also have to be prepared to make compromises.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 11:00 AM

I'm going to end up with a nice layout...I just have to be patient and keep things moving in the right direction. Doc

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, March 12, 2018 11:11 AM

aprofitt0002
One of the things I have to research is the different ways of turning trains/locomotives around other than loops and wyes. Doc

Just a locomotive, use a turntable,  You could also use a run around track.  It's a siding along side the main, that allows you to uncouple the locomotive, use the siding to run around the train, and couple back up to the other end. 

Mike.

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 11:45 AM

Yes, I was just looking at some turn around possibilites and looked at a wye that seemed not to take up too much space and alson the switching yard (I believe that is the correct term) that does exactly what you are talking about. Actually, the switching yard seemed more in line with a 36" wide bench area. Doc

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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:18 PM

My HO turntable along with four locomotive storage tracks takes up an area of about 20" X 12" so a turntable leading into a yard is probably doable in athe 36" penninsula.  However, and again it depends on the size of your locomotives and rolling stock, you still my end up having a tight radius coming out of the yard and onto the mainline down that 24" wide part of the benchwork.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:36 PM

There is kind of a 'zeroth law' here, concerning benchwork and scenery.  On a real railroad the track would be graded into or on the 'scenery', but to approximate this on a model would involve far more time and cost, and probably not provide trackwork that reliably stays in the precise alignment needed for reasonably frustration-free railroading.  So it is better to provide all the trackwork on bare risers with all the appropriate feeders, control lines, lift outs and duckunder provision, etc. and then "pretend" with the scenery to fit.

Note that you can approximate the terrain and some of the features, if you want, before starting with the track construction -- it's just easier to do a proper job if you can take the terrain out again to do the carpentry and such.

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:49 PM
Bear, Are turntables difficult to install and line up? Doc
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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:54 PM
Yes, I had sort of arrived at this way forward and am comfortable with building the track first and then conforming the topography to it. I would have a sort of "end picture" in my mind of what I want to do topographically and then construct the railbed and conform the land mass to it. The topography of the Cotswolds is very close to the topography of central Kentucky with gently rolling hills, well manicured fields, and stone fences. It would seem to be an easy topo to create without grades that are too drastic. Doc
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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:57 PM

Bearman, let me ask you...what would be wrong with me creating my own track design to fit the existing benchwork and then submitting it to all of you on this forum for critique and suggestions. Would that be out of the question? I think I could provide a basic idea of what I want to do and I'm sure the people on this forum could give me the benefit of your wisdom. Let me know.  Doc

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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 12:59 PM

Turntables are not that terribly difficult, but like most activites, I am of the measure twice and cut once mentality when it comes to my layout, and I still foul up.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 12, 2018 1:07 PM

NOthing wrong with creating a plan for your benchwork and asking for comments.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 4:51 PM

OK, I've got that book coming and it should be here this week. I'll take a look through it and see if there is any "stock" plan that seems custom made for the bench I've got (been working in the basement today and there's just no more room to expand my existing bench). If not, we may just make a plan. In the mean time, I'm going to do a lot of reading and see if I can become more familiar with railroading and model railroading in particular. Thanks for all the help. I sure appreciate it.  Doc

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, March 12, 2018 6:37 PM

Doc, a few more pointers, nothing wrong with submitting a plan for our criticism but when we tell you the flaws don't get discouraged.

Now the Armstrong book does not have track plans in it it's to help you understand the criteria for a workable railroad, if you want track plans you have some options, 1 MR has a track plan database for subscribers of the magazine, you could also buy one of the MANY track plan books Kalmbach has put out, also there's "special issues" by MR/Kalmbach they are good too, I have at least two dozen of the books and special issues full of track plans, one thing you will be hard pressed  to find a track plan that suits your desires AND fits your benchwork you have, also I don't think you'll find an OO scale British layout in the books I mentioned, that said you might find some inspiration in them but I hate to tell you you will 99 out of 100 not find a "stock" plan that fits perfectly.

Far as turning locos you have 4 choices, 1 turntable, 2 wye, 3 loop, 4 hands.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 7:05 PM

Thanks Steven...if the Armstrong book helps me to better understand the criteria for a workable railroad, that is exactly what I need it to do and I look forward to reading it and learning! I went to HobbyTown a couple of weeks ago when we were in Lexington and bought 3 - 4 plan books...One of them is Model Railroaders "101 Track Plans for Model Railroaders ($17.99) and I don't remember the others right now, but there was not a single plan that seemed to fit my circumstances here with the amount of space and the max configuration I have in the basement so what I'm hoping to do - if you all want to give me some help on this - is to let you know what i would like to do and a basic sketch of the plan I have in my head and then open things up for a "plan by community." I can graph out on graph paper my sketch/plan and I guess then take a picture of it and then upload it to Imgur and list the download information and go from there. If there is a  more economical way of doing that, i'm open to it.

     As far as the British layouts, I am looking at several of those on Youtube as well as the prototype rail line serving the Cotswolds. Luckily, there are several full length videos of this rail line running through the English countryside. I watched Steve __________ (forgot his last name) video on the Cotswolds and have a pretty good idea of the topography which resembles the topo in central Kentucky to a great extenct so I do have a plan in my head. I also realize that, since there aren't an over-supply accessories (houses, churches, etc) of the sort of stone archetecture in the villages of the Cotswolds, I'm going to have to do a lot of kit bashing for sure which I don't mind since hopefully I've got a few good years left before becoming totally feeble and I'd just as soon spend it on this railroading than anything else I can think of so...

        As far as the 4 methods of turning a train/loco, that's what I had come to understand so I'll have to fabricate one of the first 3 since I don't want the hands method. Now, brother, that's a long post but I don't have anything better to do than read the book I'm currently reading by a philosopher/theologian friend of mine, Jerry Walls, entitled "The Logic of Hell" ... well, that and eat supper!  Doc

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Posted by aprofitt0002 on Monday, March 12, 2018 7:07 PM

By the way, Steve ole pal...I saw your "Hook 'em Horns" logo and I've got only one thing to say being part of the Big Blue Nation, "Go Cats!" Doc

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Posted by NWP SWP on Monday, March 12, 2018 8:27 PM

Doc could you post an accurate drawing of what benchwork you have built?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, March 12, 2018 9:05 PM

OP's post on his benchwork

"Here are some images of my progress on the benchwork for my English countryside layout marking a trip from Stowe to Wells in the Cotswolds (see Rick Steves' Youtube video on the Cotswolds). I have only one piece of underlayment to add to complete the underlay for the layout. I will then add a 1" layer of extruded foam board and then begin construction of the topographical features including the villages of Stowe and Wells and, in the middle a 13th century castle. My layout is 30' around the exterior perimeter built against two walls with a walk around in the middle. Any and all suggestions, help, advice, comments, criticisms, etc are greatly appreciated. Regards, Doc
https://imgur.com/jYKAgSy
https://imgur.com/8t9yQBZ
https://imgur.com/WD3GSZa   "

Since he is modeling the "English countryside"  books on English modeling may be more usefull than books on US model railroads.   Here are some

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010KN811G/?coliid=I11OJQ8MM318WC&colid=14INWJ8I0OWDS&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C0K6NBS/?coliid=IMJFI8HOX1P6&colid=14INWJ8I0OWDS&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

https://www.amazon.com/Model-Railway-Design-Manual-Freezer/dp/1852605383/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1520926099&sr=1-1&keywords=model+railway+design#customerReviews

https://www.amazon.com/Railway-Modelling-Realistic-Iain-Rice/dp/1844253597/ref=sr_1_95?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1520926536&sr=1-95&keywords=model+railway+design

 

 

There are others available from Amazon

 

 

 
 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, March 12, 2018 10:44 PM

Well this ought to be interesting.

Mike.

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