That is the question.
Rich
Alton Junction
There are some advantages to Homasote. I used it on the very frst part of my layout, Red Mountain, then I switched to cork. Why? The advantages didn't outweigh the inconveniences and mess. If I was handlying lots of track, then Homasote is worth the hassle, otherwise, mmmm YMMV.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
My mileage varys. I don't use glue or adhesive to lay track and sheet homasote is not messy - just cut it with a box knife Of course if you go outside and use a sabre saw, it's dusty but the wind can blow it away but the box cutter works fine if you don't want hardly any mess.
Bonus: I had to tear my layout down for moving, and because I used Homasote and spiked/nailed my track down, it was a snap to remove and save without any damage to the track. I saved virtually all the track, nails, materials for re-use. If I would have used adhesive, it' likely would have meant a lot of loss and money flushed down the drain.
Why Homasote? It holds spike and/or Atlas track nails well and you can simply lay yout track on it. I gave mine a base coat to help it resist moisture and give it a basic color. I fasten it down with 1" drywall screws driven just a bit below the surface and fill with a bit of spackle or drywall mud. Homasote isn't just for handlying track but it's good for that too.
Worth the hassle? Building a layout is hassle. But I didn't find it a hassle to work with - no more than any other part of layout building.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window. I was surprised that I was able to save most of the turnouts with cork on foam caulked down on my large layout, even after balasting and using matt medium for the ballast, just cut them out and soaked them. with the cork still attached.
rrebell But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window.
But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window.
You'd be surprised how many layouts get built and trains run and are torn down and moved before ballast is applied. Case in point see above.
riogrande5761 rrebell But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window.
rrebell
Ditto Wayne. When I shpritzed the ballasted track to remove it from the layout, which was affixed with white glue, the track came up out of the ballast easily leaving most of the ballast still on the roadbed and plywood. More water and a scrub brush made all of the track reusable. All you need is to remove it from the bottom so it re-lays flat. The ballast still clinging in between the ties just gets ballasted over.
As far as the main question.
I have never used Homasote, only used cork (a bit of WS foam bed). Cork is fine.
But I'll use the Cascade roadbed product because I want the lower profile and 30 degree shoulder that would be more in keeping with the branchline/shortline layouts I like. I'll use 1/2 ply for a table top, then a layer of sheet homasote, then the homabed which I believe will produce a very quiet combination.
- Douglas
riogrande5761I don't use glue or adhesive to lay track and sheet homasote is not messy - just cut it with a box knife
One can glue or spike in either, it's just that if I needed to do a lot of spiking, I'd prefer Homasote. It also allows a bit more precision, a good feature when hand layoing
On the other hand, you don't need many spikes if you're putting down flex on either, they "grab" instantly, and reuse is very easy. I chose a combination of spike and cork that allows just the tip of the spoke to penetrate into the wood. It holds securely, but doesn't require the spike be driven all the way in.
The biggest advanatge to cork is its ease of use. Unless one buys the precut Homasote blocks, each piece needs to be shaped and fitted. And I can see that as engaging for other folks, but just like handlaying, I'll leave that to those with a taste for it except when it's needed for some reason where cork won't suffice.
riogrande5761Worth the hassle? Building a layout is hassle. But I didn't find it a hassle to work with - no more than any other part of layout building. Cool
True enough. But you do what you feel you need to do and prioritize accordingly. I'd just rather not spend much time on roadbed and more....on something else. Depending on how one deals with the Homasote, it can take anywhere from "more time" to "lots more time" using it vs cork.
The question may be moot. I've sent Cascade Rail Supply a couple of questions in the last two weeks and received no response. Has anyone heard from them recently? Are they still in business?
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Carl,
I'm here. My apologies if I missed your emails. I was out of town for a family emergency and have been preoccupied. I will go back and find your email now.
Steve Cox
Cascade Rail Supply
sjcoxI'm here.
Excellent. Sorry for the false alarm. I really like this stuff and would be hugely disappointed if it suddenly became unavailable. If you decide to get hit by a bus, please give me advance notice so I can get one last order.
Homasote and Homabed, period.HO scale 1/8" Homabed mounted on O scale thick Homabed with a 1/4 inch spacer in the middle gives you a perfect ballast/roadbed profile for HO scale.Use the 30 degree material.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Well, I guess that I am a bit surprised by all of the support for Homasote.
I have nothing against Homasote, just never considered it until Sheldon talked about it on another thread.
As background, I have always used Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed. Why? Because way back 14 years ago when I first entered the HO scale side of the hobby (an American Flyer guy as a kid), my LHS guys told me that foam roadbed was the way to go.
All these years later, I don't dislike foam, but it is soft and not as firm as cork. So, when I decided recently to build a new layout, I figured that cork was the way to go. But, now, I am reading that Homasote may be the way to go.
So, let me ask this question. What are the disadvantages of using cork as roadbed?
richhotrainWhat are the disadvantages of using cork as roadbed?
1. Cork does not hold spikes well (not dense enough). This is really only a concern for handlaying.
2. You have an extra step with cork to trim the edge off of one piece.
3. Homasote cuts very cleanly with a fresh, sharp number 11 blade. Cork does not cut as cleanly in my experience.
4. Cork has a tendancy to dry out over a long time, and may become brittle. The curvable homasote roadbed does have a tendancy to break if you try to bend it the oppostie direction than it is intended (there is only a small section of paper on the inside piece) or handle it roughly. It is still useable after it breaks.
Those are the only disadvantages I can think of..
I like using homabed. Very little mess and easy to use. Yellow glue soaks in pretty well and makes a firm joint.
Rich,
Others will chime in here but for me it's not so much the disadvantages of cork as the advantages of Homasote. Now, I'm talking about my products which I was a user of long before I became a manufacturer so understand my bias. First is density. You notice the difference between foam and cork as far as squish goes? Homasote is denser yet while still being soft enough for good sound deadening. I don't think there is any material in model railroad use with as good a combination of sound deadening and support. Second is accuracy and variety. I can provide HO roadbed in three thicknesses for anything from a light duty branch to super heavy duty such as Horseshoe Curve. There are sheets of varying widths to match each of those thicknesses. I also have transition ramps between the thicknesses and sub roadbed level for industry spurs, etc. The bevel on the edge of roadbed is traditionally 45 degrees. I sell that style. But I also sell roadbed with a 30 degree or nearly 2:1 bevel which more accurately represents "natural slope" that real ballast falls into after a while. That uses less ballast and ballast is easier to apply than with the steeper angle. Turnout pads can be ordered for specific turnouts in all thicknesses. That kind of variety is simply not available with cork. Whether you want or need it is up to you. Some users of cork have reported it drying out and crumbling with age. I have seen it but I have not seen it consistently so YMMV. Homasote will not do that.
Many very nice layouts have been built with cork roadbed. It's not a bad material (I will not say the same about foam roadbed). Many nice layouts have been built with Atlas code 100 track but I will make the effort and expense because I think smaller rail looks better. I think Homasote provides a better foundation for my trains to run on especially long term, and for me, EVERYTHING comes down to how well things run.
mlehman The biggest advanatge to cork is its ease of use. Unless one buys the precut Homasote blocks, each piece needs to be shaped and fitted.
The biggest advanatge to cork is its ease of use. Unless one buys the precut Homasote blocks, each piece needs to be shaped and fitted.
Id say the bigest advantage of Homasote is its ease of use. I buy Homasote in 4x8' sheets. Then screw it down and give it a coat of base color. No shaping or fitting. Snicker snack lay the track. Not any more time consuming than cork.
I'd just rather not spend much time on roadbed and more....on something else. Depending on how one deals with the Homasote, it can take anywhere from "more time" to "lots more time" using it vs cork.
I'd imagine Homasote isnt any more time than cork all things considered.
Steve Cox makes some very good points above about Homasote too which speak for themself.
BMMECNYC wrote the following post 2 hours ago:
Some of my hand laid track has been in for years on cork. Never had any spikes come loose. And this is in the basement where the humidity changes by the week.
I'm confused. I use Midwest cork and never had to trim any of it? What needs trimming?
riogrande5761riogrande5761 wrote the following post 4 hours ago: mlehman The biggest advanatge to cork is its ease of use. Unless one buys the precut Homasote blocks, each piece needs to be shaped and fitted. Id say the bigest advantage of Homasote is its ease of use. I buy Homasote in 4x8' sheets. Then screw it down and give it a coat of base color. No shaping or fitting. Snicker snack lay the track. Not any more time consuming than cork.
True, if even the suggestion of a ballast profile and ditching aen't important. Then you can just slice and dice like plywood. Some folks use cork sheets for their yards, too, but that tends to be somewhat uninteresting. I don't go to much trouble, but even just laying the cork strips loosely and doing a little trimming with the hobby knife does wonders.
But this may be a standard gauge vs narrowgauge thing to some degree. Most of the Rio Grande's narrowgauge yards never saw a bulldozer, they were leveled by hand and scraper (power by horse power, not HP), not a Cat like many of the standard gauge yards were reworked with to the extent one can ignore suggestions of drainage as less impressive than the overall flatness of many newer yards. You have to have something other than smooth to be believable visually with NG, though.
Still, if you do want to duplicate the ballast profile, then you either pay someone to cut it or you do it yourself. With cork you get it by pulling the halves of the cork strip apart. I assumed this was generally the case with users of both, but I understand not everyone feels the need. It's one of those many things about the hobby where there's not really any "best" answer (although a few may believe that's so), but one that suits our needs and preferences.
Well, I guess my club is overbuilding our new layout. We are using 3/4" plywood subroadbed with 1/2" Homasote on top, and Midwest cork on top of that! Why? The layout room walls are concrete. We have a hard enough time hearing each other now when several people are talking, let alone adding in sound locomotives and metal wheels.
Of course the addition of the Homasote does also allow for building track profiles and ditches easily.
One thing I will mention is that the oft quoted problem with Homasote generating huge quantities of sawdust is no longer a reality. I bought some Bosch jig saw blades that are taper ground as opposed to having the teeth 'set' for clearance. The blades generated very little sawdust and what was generated was easy to clean up. I can't identify the blades from Bosch's website and the package is at the club. I'll have a look at the package on Monday night and let you know what the model number is.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
rrebell But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window. I was surprised that I was able to save most of the turnouts with cork on foam caulked down on my large layout, even after balasting and using matt medium for the ballast, just cut them out and soaked them. with the cork still attached.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
doctorwayne Wayne
Did you glue your track down with water soluble glue as well?
If so, how did you keep the track in place once you started to ballast it??
railandsail rrebell But once you ballast the track, alot of that reuse goes out the window. I was surprised that I was able to save most of the turnouts with cork on foam caulked down on my large layout, even after balasting and using matt medium for the ballast, just cut them out and soaked them. with the cork still attached. And what caulk did you utilize?
Remember too that Homasote is twice as expencive as cork. As for cork crumbling, remember that there were many companys making the stuff. Always used Midwest and never a problem, even in 30 year old stuff that I bought second hand and was stored in an old garage.
rrebell Remember too that Homasote is twice as expencive as cork. As for cork crumbling, remember that there were many companys making the stuff. Always used Midwest and never a problem, even in 30 year old stuff that I bought second hand and was stored in an old garage.
Well, since I started this question for Rich, I will comment again.
First, for me cork is too soft, even the best of it.
Homasote sheets from the lumber yard are great for yards and such, but I prefer the built up ballast look of roadbed, it suits the era and type of railroading I model.
So I prefer the Homabed type product, which in most ways works just like cork, with all added benefits of homasote.
I do glue down track, with adheasive vinyl caulk, no unlike gluing down ties for hand laid track.
I do not glue down turnouts. They are held in place mostly by the ajoining tracks and one or two track nails.
I ballast with white glue.
Salvaging turnouts is no problem, I have very seldom even tried to salvage track from a layout, especially one with completed scenery.
The Cascade roadbed makes using Homasote easy and mess free.....the only choice other than wood roadbed like TruScale in my mind.
And all my homasote sits on 1/2 or 3/4 plywood subroadbed.
Note the track contruction under this freight car. Click on my picture and note the track, it is glued down with a very thin film of adheasive caulk, The plywood and the homabed were installed with a pneumatic brad nailer, very fast and very secure once things are laidout.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do glue down track, with adheasive vinyl caulk, no unlike gluing down ties for hand laid track. Sheldon
Sheldon,
What are your thoughts on using adhesive vinyl caulk as opposed to latex caulk, which appears to be the predominate type mentioned. I assume the vinyl is solvent based where as typical latex is water based.
My understanding of the properties and benefits of various caulks is limited.
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do glue down track, with adheasive vinyl caulk, no unlike gluing down ties for hand laid track. Sheldon Sheldon, What are your thoughts on using adhesive vinyl caulk as opposed to latex caulk, which appears to be the predominate type mentioned. I assume the vinyl is solvent based where as typical latex is water based. My understanding of the properties and benefits of various caulks is limited.
Latex "painters caulk" had no adheasive properties, it is only intended to fill gaps and adhear well enough for that purpose, not to support weight or resist lateral force.
The adheasive caulk I use is desiged as a glue and caulk in one. It is what the best professionals now use in bathrooms/kitchens and is used to install solid surface wall panels in showers, back splashes, etc. It is much thicker/dense, and will resist for example the force of the bend in the rail on a curve.
It takes a tack very quickly, make track installation fast and easy. For track laying, I use clear, so it matters not if some little excess get where you don't want it.
It is what was used by the first several people to popularize it for laying track.
Polyseamseal or Phenoseal brands of adheasive caulk.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL I do glue down track, with adheasive vinyl caulk, no unlike gluing down ties for hand laid track. Sheldon Sheldon, What are your thoughts on using adhesive vinyl caulk as opposed to latex caulk, which appears to be the predominate type mentioned. I assume the vinyl is solvent based where as typical latex is water based. My understanding of the properties and benefits of various caulks is limited. Latex "painters caulk" had no adheasive properties, it is only intended to fill gaps and adhear well enough for that purpose, not to support weight or resist lateral force. The adheasive caulk I use is desiged as a glue and caulk in one. It is what the best professionals now use in bathrooms/kitchens and is used to install solid surface wall panels in showers, back splashes, etc. It is much thicker/dense, and will resist for example the force of the bend in the rail on a curve. It takes a tack very quickly, make track installation fast and easy. For track laying, I use clear, so it matters not if some little excess get where you don't want it. It is what was used by the first several people to popularize it for laying track. Polyseamseal or Phenoseal brands of adheasive caulk. Sheldon
Thanks. I know at one section of my old layout, I used some sort of cheap latex caulk that didn't hold at all to the cork and WS Foam bed I used. After it dried, it came right up.
I would like a water based latex product to be able to salvage track if I need to, but I think its best to find a brand that has some adhesive properties. I assume with the advancements in latex products these days, somebody makes a decent adhesive latex caulk that would hold well on cork or homasote.
Tacking quickly is also desired.
Sheet Vinyl FlooringI was cleaning out/reorganizing one of my outdoor sheds yesterday, and I ran across some sample pieces of vinyl sheet flooring that had been installed in a house next to me. It has an really good feel to it, and comes in a variety of thicknesses, including a 1/16" ans 1/8" which I happen to have.It got me to thinking,...how about roadbed cut from strips of this vinyl??