It's all lookin' good Dave! Nice to see some pictures of the clubs progress.
Mike.
My You Tube
hon30critter I have to say that my new (relatively) Xytronics soldering station is amazing compared to the Weller station I was using before. If you are having trouble soldering, consider upgrading your unit. I wish I had done it years ago!!! Dave
I have to say that my new (relatively) Xytronics soldering station is amazing compared to the Weller station I was using before. If you are having trouble soldering, consider upgrading your unit. I wish I had done it years ago!!!
Dave
Interesting thread. I'm not sure the club situation would be right for me.
I'm a guy who has done a LOT of soldering in his life. I tell everyone that Weller soldering stations are garbage. I've never used a Xytronics, but they get good reviews. I swear by Hakko soldering stations.
Having a good iron will make all the difference in the world. I spend a good chunk of my week welding. No matter how good of a weldor you are, you will never produce quality work on a junky welder. Same goes with soldering.
congrats and enjoy.
Ed
Semi newbie HO scale modeler coming from the O scale world
mbinsewiIt's all lookin' good Dave! Nice to see some pictures of the clubs progress.
Thanks Mike
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Bigjim7Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it.
Hi Jim,
I wish I could work on the layout more, but my back problems really throw a wrench in that. I can only stand for relatively short periods. However, now that we are about to start doing scenery in earnest, and since much of the scenery will be built on removable modules, I'm looking forward to being able to sit on a chair to do some work.
One change that will happen soon is that we are going to improve the lighting in the room. Currently there are several areas where the layout is not well lit, and the lighting over our work table is so poor that doing any detailed work like installing a coupler is a royal PITA. The landlord has agreed to chip in which is great. Unfortunately the electrician he recommended is extremely poor at providing detailed quotes. His first quote was for 10 x 4' fixtures. We had asked for five additional fixtures. How he came up with 10 fixtures is anybody's guess since there are 12 fixtures in the room now and they don't provide enough light. He came back with a second quote for five fixtures but it totally lacked any details as to what type they were and where they would be installed. We have given him another chance to explain exactly what he is proposing, but if he doesn't deliver a detailed quote he will be out of the picture. Very frustrating! I'd like to dump him now and stop wasting time, but we are doing this by committee so nothing will happen fast.
Cheers!!
LED lighting
I bought some of these and I am real happy with them. Here is an older posting of mine,..
8 LED shop lites for $62 8 four-foot long LED lights, and linkable, all for $62 These are the latest 'shop style' lites I found at Amazon... (Pack of 8) LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture 4FT,20W,2200lm,6500K (Super Bright White),Utility led Shop Light, LED Ceiling light and Under Cabinet Light That's less than $10 per lite, and they are linkable,.. I have some concerns about the 6500K spec? I'm thinking I could link 3 of these down either of the two sides of my 15 foot long ceiling in my shed,...for 'room' lighting? Might even be usable for under upper shelf lighting?
8 four-foot long LED lights, and linkable, all for $62 These are the latest 'shop style' lites I found at Amazon... (Pack of 8) LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture 4FT,20W,2200lm,6500K (Super Bright White),Utility led Shop Light, LED Ceiling light and Under Cabinet Light That's less than $10 per lite, and they are linkable,.. I have some concerns about the 6500K spec? I'm thinking I could link 3 of these down either of the two sides of my 15 foot long ceiling in my shed,...for 'room' lighting? Might even be usable for under upper shelf lighting?
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
hon30critter Bigjim7 Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it. Hi Jim, I wish I could work on the layout more, but my back problems really throw a wrench in that. I can only stand for relatively short periods. However, now that we are about to start doing scenery in earnest, and since much of the scenery will be built on removable modules, I'm looking forward to being able to sit on a chair to do some work. One change that will happen soon is that we are going to improve the lighting in the room. Currently there are several areas where the layout is not well lit, and the lighting over our work table is so poor that doing any detailed work like installing a coupler is a royal PITA. The landlord has agreed to chip in which is great. Unfortunately the electrician he recommended is extremely poor at providing detailed quotes. His first quote was for 10 x 4' fixtures. We had asked for five additional fixtures. How he came up with 10 fixtures is anybody's guess since there are 12 fixtures in the room now and they don't provide enough light. He came back with a second quote for five fixtures but it totally lacked any details as to what type they were and where they would be installed. We have given him another chance to explain exactly what he is proposing, but if he doesn't deliver a detailed quote he will be out of the picture. Very frustrating! I'd like to dump him now and stop wasting time, but we are doing this by committee so nothing will happen fast. Cheers!! Dave
Bigjim7 Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it.
Hi Dave,
Some photos of those LED tubes on my layout on this page,... sorry there is no way to link to a specfic posting on this forum.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/265819.aspx?page=8
These LED tubes were cheap, linkable from a tradition wall plug (no fancy electrician required), very light weight, and very tolerate of rough handling.
rrebell and Brian,
Thanks for the suggestions. Both are viable solutions.
One of the challenges we face with adding lighting is that the ceiling is not smooth. In addition to several large beams that run across it, there is a sprinkler system and numerous bits of plumbing and conduit. We rejected using a valance because it would have blocked off the sprinkler system in several areas. It's just not worth the effort and expense to rearrange the sprinklers.
Another challenge is that the whole structure is poured concrete. It was built as a heavy industrial manufacturing facility in the late 50s or there abouts and the concrete is as hard as rock!! Maybe harder!! Drilling a single hole into it requires that we take turns on the heavy duty hammer drill, and that is just into a wall. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to drill into the ceiling. There is a distinct advantage in having someone else cope with the concrete.
By the way, Ramset is out. Not going to go there!
Thanks again for your suggestions.
Give us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions
Wonder if there is a good way to glue wood battens to concrete,...
1) Polyurethane Construction Adhesive. QUIKRETE® Polyurethane Construction Adhesive (No. 9902-10) is a high performance, construction grade adhesive designed for permanently bonding concrete, brick, marble, stone, wood, glass, aluminum, steel, PVC and tile. Use For: Repairing broken concrete.
2) http://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/build/epoxies/loctite_epoxy_metalconcrete.html
3) https://www.fivestarproducts.com/products/concrete-repair-and-overlays/bonding-adhesive.html
4) etc
The LED tube I spoke of are extremely light weight
LED tapes are even lighter.
Another LED reference that recently came to me
https://www.instructables.com/id/Inexpensive-Garage-Lights-From-LED-Strips/
rrebellGive us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions
Hi rrebell,
I haven't taken any shots of the ceiling directly but these should give you an idea:
The surface is quite rough. The ceiling is 14" thick plus the beams, or so we are told. There are quite a few more pipes in the areas not shown. If you wish, I can get some more detailed pics.
railandsailWonder if there is a good way to glue wood battens to concrete,...
Hi Brian,
Certainly the ceiling could be strapped by using construction adhesive and a couple of long boards to hold the strapping up while the glue sets. The problem with that is that it would make an already lousy looking ceiling far worse, even with a coat of paint.
The tutorial you linked to using the coiled LED strip lighting looks easy enough, but the size of the power supplies rapidly mounts up once you do the math, and there is a lot of wiring involved when you are working with 12 volt strips. We would rather have finished, self contained light fixtures with diffusers, spread evenly across the room. The 4' lights that you suggested would work, but because they are single strips we would require twice as many of them to do the same job.
Putting in a drop ceiling isn't an option for a variety of reasons.
mrrdadI'm a guy who has done a LOT of soldering in his life. I tell everyone that Weller soldering stations are garbage. I've never used a Xytronics, but they get good reviews. I swear by Hakko soldering stations.
Hi Ed,
I can't believe how easy it is to keep the Xytronic tips clean compared to the Weller's. All they require is a quick wipe in the brass sponge and they are sparkling again. I rarely have to do any additional tinning and I never have to dip it in flux to clean off a pile of stuck on junk. I could get the Weller tips to tin properly but they went black in very short order. I played with the temperature thinking that I had the tip too hot but it didn't seem to make any difference. I ended up using a fine wire brush and frequent dipping into the flux to try to keep the crud off, and on occassion I used a fine file. I know all of that is verboten but the iron was useless if I didn't. It did the job, but not without a lot of fussing and farting around. The Xytronics is bliss by comparison!
For all you guys out there who have trouble soldering, get a decent iron! No, I don't sell the things!
hon30critter rrebell Give us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions Hi rrebell, I haven't taken any shots of the ceiling directly but these should give you an idea: The surface is quite rough. The ceiling is 14" thick plus the beams, or so we are told. There are quite a few more pipes in the areas not shown. If you wish, I can get some more detailed pics. Dave
rrebell Give us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions
Two ways I've seen it done on such types of ceilings, either junction boxes are anchored to the ceiling and then the light fixtures are hung down on conduit, or there are anchors driven into the concrete and the light fixtures hang on chains.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerTwo ways I've seen it done on such types of ceilings, either junction boxes are anchored to the ceiling and then the light fixtures are hung down on conduit, or there are anchors driven into the concrete and the light fixtures hang on chains.
Hi Randy,
The existing lights are mounted directly on the ceiling. I'm not sure how they will do the new ones.
Speaking of new lights, the landlord has agreed to replace all 12 of the existing florescent fixtures with LED units at his cost, plus he will go half way on the additional 5 lights that we need to get better illumination along the north and east walls, and over the work table. Nice!!
We held an Executive Committee meeting on Monday night and one of the decisions we made was to get into operating as soon as we reasonably can. It will be a bit of a challenge because, as I have said before, the club hasn't had a layout that was conducive to operating for years. Most members are used to just going around in circles.
We have a couple of resources that we will take advantage of. One is the Nottawasaga club in Collingwood, and the other is a private individual who conducts frequent and well organized operation sessions at his home layout. Both have offered assistance in getting our system set up.
We are looking at starting with a simple card system, but if anyone has any other suggestions, please speak up.
The reason that we need to develop an operating method ASAP is that we have made a huge amount of progress in the last couple of months. We have managed to construct a total of six operating areas with the track being almost complete in most of them. The track that remains to be laid will only take a few hours. If we don't have an operating system in place soon, we will be bored silly just running around in circles. In fact, I think that is already starting to happen. I know I'm already there!
One of the areas that is coming together very quickly is our staging yard. We have designed a yard that is away from the main layout which will provide a place for people to put their rolling stock on the rails, but it can also be used as a regular yard once everyones' trains are on the tracks. There is storage underneath so people have a place to put their boxes after they take their cars out of them.
Engines can escape from their trains where the trains run into the yard locomotive first, and there is a wye so engines can be reversed to pull the trains out with the engines pointing in the right direction. There is even a caboose track! The yard tracks are about nine feet long on average so there is plenty of room to build a train. This is roughly what it looks like. The lift out is necessary to allow access to the electrical panel. The yard tapers towards the end because it is close to the entry door to the club. Dimensions might not be accurate:
We also addressed some specifics about how to construct our scenery in the middle of the rather wide peninsula. We all had some fuzzy pictures in our minds about what we wanted things to look like, but now we know how to actually go about building the hills and valleys. The scenery has to be removable so it can be worked on. The reach in distances are far too long for the scenery to be built in place. We even bought some 2" blue foam to get started with.
TAFN!
Dave, I am living vicariously as I follow progress on your club layout. I operate as a lone wolf in my basement, extremely limited operations on my layout, and it shall remain that way. But, it is a whole lot of fun imagining being a member of your club. Keep up the good work. By the way, I love that wye concept alongside the turntable.
Rich
Alton Junction
Thanks Rich!
I appreciate your comments! Yes, the wye turned out quite well. Please don't tell anybody that it wasn't planned that way in the original track plan. It just sort of fell in our laps!
That actually brings up an aspect of how a club functions, or rather, doesn't function when egos are involved. When we first acquired the new clubhouse one of our Executive members layed out the area which the layout could occupy and was adamant that it wouldn't be allowed to exceed his boundaries. Bull feathers!! If we had followed his dictates the layout would be half the size that it is and the club would be half full of couches! Fortunately the new Executive (of which he is no longer a member) has persevered. We didn't dismiss his concerns outright. We just kind of ignored them. Now we have way more layout than he would have permitted, and we still have a large lounge area, and everyone is happy, even him!
Just another juicy tidbit about how our club works!!
Bigjim7I am interested in how you go about using a operating system. How it works and such. I mostly go to my layout and just pick a engine and go pick up say some tank cars at the Ethanol plant or go take some coal cars to the coal mine area. Run some around the layout. What does a operating system add. Thanks
The short answer, you just develop a system for writing down in advance those train movements. In a group setting operators are given instructions (train orders) and generally have to report to someone (dispatcher or yard master).
As for the details, there are lots of variations and methods....
Sheldon
But, I'm a lone wolf, just like you. I sit around upstairs and think, hey, I will head downstairs to the layout and hook up a pair of GP7s to a string of box cars and head out onto the inner mainline for awhile. And, while I am at it, I will hook up one of my ABBA consists to a string of passenger cars and run them in the opposite direction on the outer mainline. Then, I will return everything back to where I found it. That is an operating session.
Other times, I will get more serious and disciplined and simulate all of the movements to bring a string of passenger cars to the downtown train station for passenger loading. That requires a yard switcher to go the coach yard and push the string of passenger cars down to a stub end track at the passenger station, followed by a locomotive consist backing up from the engine servicing facility to the station to connect to the passenger car consist. The switcher returns to the coach yard with an empty string of passenger cars for cleaning and servicing, while that passenger train travels to distant points and back. That's another operating session.
And on and on and on.
On the staging - I'm assumign it is as long (down the page) as you can possibly fit and still leave the tail for engine escape? Because if you ahev more length, I'd add more tracks. Somethign that tends to work for us is (granted, there is a major difference because this is a portable layout, so priority is given to those who help with the setup and teardown) that each person gets a track to put their train on. We do have more peopel wanting to run trains than there are staging tracks, so they are used up on a first come first serve basis with, as noted, priority to those who help set up and tear down the layout at each venue. On a longer display, many peopel aren't there every day of the week so there are plenty of opportunities for anyone that wants to run to be able to do so.
I presume some similar things will shake out - unless you are the magic club where every member does the same era, I suspect there will peopel who want to do a 1920's op session, and those that want a 19040's session, and some who want a 1980's session, etc. So you may end up having enough staging as is, as long as people remove say their modern equipment for the 1920 guys' session, and the 1920's guys remove their stuff when it's the modern guys' turn for their op session.
Bigjim7What does a operating system add.
Not too long ago I was asking myself the same question. I thought I would be happy just running different trains around. Well, now that I have had the chance to do that, I find that I am a bit bored!
An operating system makes running trains a lot more prototypical. Real railroads pick up cars in various places and drop them off in other places. They never just take a cut of cars and run around in circles with them.
One of the simpler operating systems involves giving each operator a few cards that represent individual pieces of rolling stock. The cards tell you where to pick up each car and where to drop each car off. If you are given 10 cards with 10 different drop off locations you have to first find those cars (if the train hasn't already been made up for you) and then get each car to its destination. Things can get a bit more complicated if, for example, the first car that you need to drop is in the middle of your train. That is easy to do if you can back into the siding, but if the siding is facing the locomotive then you have some work to do. Then, you often have to pick up empties from the sidings which have to be delivered to yet another destination. Things can get further complicated when there are several operators all trying to do the same thing, especially if there is only a single track mainline.
Operations can be enhanced using a computer with JMRI on it. The program will generate a different set of movements for each session. Some opertions are so complex that a Dispatcher is required to control the main line traffic, and a Yard Master may be required as well. We don't plan on getting that complicated, at least not for a while.
That is a very rudimentary (and likely flawed) explanation from someone who is just starting to learn how to operate.
rrinker On the staging - I'm assumign it is as long (down the page) as you can possibly fit and still leave the tail for engine escape?
Yes, we are pretty much maxed out for space because the staging yard is just inside the entrance to the clubhouse. We had to taper the end in order to allow us to get the portable layout modules out of the room.
The limited number of tracks has made us decide to not allow trains to be left parked in the yard between sessions. Either they are going on to the layout as soon as the train is made up, or they are being disassembled and put into their storage boxes. There are ample shelves below the yard to store trains.
We ran into a problem with our main yard because somebody decided to put almost every piece of rolling stock that the club owned on the rails in the yard. They filled the whole yard which made it pretty much useless. We have said that trains will not be parked in the main yard either unless they are part of a current operating session.
Bigjim7For lone wolfs it seems it would be weird to do.
Actually, I believe that lots of 'lone wolves' operate by themselves. One of our new members has been a 'lone wolf' for a long time and he rarely runs trains just to watch them go around in circles. He loves to set up operating sessions for himself, and he is eager to join our Operations Committee so that he can share his experience.
Bigjim7I can see where using cards to tell what trains to get and move could be fun on a club layout. For lone wolfs it seems it would be weird to do. Do they make Trains cards or do you make those yourself. Thanks
Operations are not just about switching cars. My operating plan, on my old layout and the new one I am planning, also involves the "dance" of running multiple mainline trains in accordance with a timetable.
In my opinion, the best layouts are those that are planned in advance for the types of operation the owner desires. In my case, that is all types - switching, mainline CTC/timetable, and simple display loops.
I can run with a crew or by myself, switching the industries or keeping the passenger schedule.