Solder questionI'm still a bit ignorant about really good solder technics, but I thought I understood that it was NOT a good idea to use rosin-core solder on electrical circuits??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
ATLANTIC CENTRALBeing a Yank and a conservative, don't get me started........
Hi Sheldon!
I figured my post (rant) would get your attention!
Every time I have to address the situation I shake my head. We are a group of 22 people who just want to run trains. Give me a break! Unfortunately, if we ignore the rules, the government will recind our corporate status, which will mean that we can't get the necessary insurance to meet our landlord's requirements, which will mean the end of the club. The NMRA club insurance unfortunately doesn't carry much weight up here.
We will hopefully be done with all of this rigmarole by the end of April. Then we can get back to working on the layout.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter I have to share with you some recent experiences that being a club executive has exposed me to. Those of you who don't want to be club members will enjoy this! In March we got a letter from the Ontario Government telling us that we were not in compliance with the laws governing non profit organizations. This is the second letter that we have had to that effect. I responded to the first one which we received last fall which asked us to list the club's executive members. Turns out that we didn't understand what they were asking. The club is supposed to have a Board of Directors over and above the Executives. Foolishly we had followed the advice of a member who told us that we didn't need to have Directors. OK, the simple solution was to ask the members to appoint the existing executives (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) to the Directors positions. Unfortunately, there was way, way more involved. The club is also supposed to have written by-laws which govern the operation of the club. The by-laws were nowhere to be found so we had to rewrite them, which the President did to the tune of 16 pages of legaleeze! He didn't create that size of a document because he wanted to. All he did was follow the example of another non-profit organization which supposedly had all their ducks in a row. OK, now we have the by-laws so our job will be done as soon as the members agree to appoint the current Executive to the Board of Directors, or so we thought. The next thing we discovered is that the club needs to have a separate by-law governing the dissolution of the club if that ever happens. OK, so we drew that up. Easy, right?!? Not so quick. In order to comply with all of the government regulations we have to have a series of separate meetings to ratify all of this. Each meeting has to start with a resolution to do whatever, i.e. appoint the Board of Directors or ratify each by-law and has to end with another resolution to bring the meetings officially to a close. NO, we can't do all the things we need to do in a 'single' meeting! We can have all the meetings on the same night, but each one has to be started and stopped with their own resolutions. OK, are you exhausted yet? I am!!! We are not done yet!!! Each of the meetings has to be held in a particular order because if we don't ratify something like the dissolution by-law first, the following meeting can't ratify the other by-laws without the first meeting's resolution being adopted. We have to have three (I think) separate consecutive 'official' meetings in order to clean up the whole mess. Now I'm really exhausted. But wait!! There is still more to do!!! Henk and I have to figure out a way to explain all of this to the members and deal with any questions about any of the details (I'm sure there will be questions - lots of questions!). I'm not making this up! We are simply following the law. The really unfortunate thing is that, had the previous executive done their due diligence, everything would still be in place and the whole process could have been dealt with by simply submitting our list of Directors and Executives on an annual basis. Henk and I took over the leadership of the club to get it back on its' feet. Such is the price we pay. Cheers everybody!! Dave
I have to share with you some recent experiences that being a club executive has exposed me to. Those of you who don't want to be club members will enjoy this!
In March we got a letter from the Ontario Government telling us that we were not in compliance with the laws governing non profit organizations. This is the second letter that we have had to that effect. I responded to the first one which we received last fall which asked us to list the club's executive members. Turns out that we didn't understand what they were asking. The club is supposed to have a Board of Directors over and above the Executives. Foolishly we had followed the advice of a member who told us that we didn't need to have Directors. OK, the simple solution was to ask the members to appoint the existing executives (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) to the Directors positions.
Unfortunately, there was way, way more involved. The club is also supposed to have written by-laws which govern the operation of the club. The by-laws were nowhere to be found so we had to rewrite them, which the President did to the tune of 16 pages of legaleeze! He didn't create that size of a document because he wanted to. All he did was follow the example of another non-profit organization which supposedly had all their ducks in a row. OK, now we have the by-laws so our job will be done as soon as the members agree to appoint the current Executive to the Board of Directors, or so we thought.
The next thing we discovered is that the club needs to have a separate by-law governing the dissolution of the club if that ever happens. OK, so we drew that up. Easy, right?!?
Not so quick. In order to comply with all of the government regulations we have to have a series of separate meetings to ratify all of this. Each meeting has to start with a resolution to do whatever, i.e. appoint the Board of Directors or ratify each by-law and has to end with another resolution to bring the meetings officially to a close. NO, we can't do all the things we need to do in a 'single' meeting! We can have all the meetings on the same night, but each one has to be started and stopped with their own resolutions.
OK, are you exhausted yet? I am!!!
We are not done yet!!! Each of the meetings has to be held in a particular order because if we don't ratify something like the dissolution by-law first, the following meeting can't ratify the other by-laws without the first meeting's resolution being adopted. We have to have three (I think) separate consecutive 'official' meetings in order to clean up the whole mess.
Now I'm really exhausted. But wait!! There is still more to do!!! Henk and I have to figure out a way to explain all of this to the members and deal with any questions about any of the details (I'm sure there will be questions - lots of questions!).
I'm not making this up! We are simply following the law. The really unfortunate thing is that, had the previous executive done their due diligence, everything would still be in place and the whole process could have been dealt with by simply submitting our list of Directors and Executives on an annual basis.
Henk and I took over the leadership of the club to get it back on its' feet. Such is the price we pay.
Cheers everybody!!
Mother government, protecting you from yourselves..........
Being a Yank and a conservative, don't get me started........
Sheldon
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
rrinkerSounds to me that if the tip wouldn;t stay clean, the issue is the opposite of too low a voltage - it was high, and the iron was running too hot.
OK Randy, I'll check that out too. It is adjustable.
Interesting, I've always used 53/37 because, indeed, it is easier to NOT get a cold joint. I've never had a problem with it not melting or flowing, even with my old collection of soldering irons back in the day. Both my station and my big gun for feeders seem to have no problem. Sounds to me that if the tip wouldn;t stay clean, the issue is the opposite of too low a voltage - it was high, and the iron was running too hot.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
gmpullmanI wonder what solder blend you are using, Dave?
Hi Ed:
That may well have been the problem. Normally I use Kester Electronic Silver Solder and I have no trouble with it at all. It is rosin core .020" 62% lead, 36% tin and 2% silver. I buy it from Ngineering. http://ngineering.com/soldering.htm
At the club I was using 63/37 eutectic rosin core solder which I had not used before. I bought it because I thought that the eutectic properties would result in fewer cold joints with several different people doing the soldering, some more experienced than others.
When we start to solder the feeder wires to the bus I will take some of the Kester solder to the club to see how well it works vs the eutectic stuff. I'll let everyone know the results but don't hold your breath waiting. We are having yet another discussion on how to do the bus wiring (probably the fifth time round ) and we have to resolve that before any feeders get soldered.
Cheers!!
hon30critter I seemed to be able to use it just fine but several others had a bit of trouble getting the solder to flow.
I wonder what solder blend you are using, Dave?
I have an EE friend that works at a hi-tech electronics builder. He brings me left-overs and recently gave me some Alpha Reliacore 63/37 in .010, .015 and .020 diameters.
I figured this is what the "pros" use so it must be good. I really didn't like it and couldn't get a good flow both on nickel silver rail or PC boards. The "eutectic" properties made it chill too fast for my liking.
After a while I went back to my Kester "44" 66/44 rosin core and suddenly realised I should have stuck with this all along. It makes a nice, shiny tent and flows beautifully.
I have some Radio Shack 60/40 too but it doesn't flow as nicely as the "44".
From what I've collected over the years I'll bet I have two-or-three dozen one-pound spools of rosin solder alone plus several dozen spools of 50/50 plumbing solder.
My kids will probably have to pay to have the property de-contaminated when I'm gone
Cheers! Ed.
We had an interesting time at the club on Tuesday night. The club has decided that all of our turnouts will have jumpers added as per Allan Gartner's recommendations. The problem was that nobody knew exactly how to do it except me. So, I ran a seminar to teach those members who were interested how to do it. The seminar also included some basic soldering information. I wasn't sure how many people would be interested in the seminar but it turned out that everyone in attendance wanted to get involved.
The seminar was well received, and even the experienced modellers said they got something out of it. One member who had never been able to solder on his own actually ended up modifying a couple of turnouts and he did quite well.
I was a little annoyed because my Weller soldering iron didn't seem to be working as well as it had been at home. I seemed to be able to use it just fine but several others had a bit of trouble getting the solder to flow. Also, the tip seemed to be harder to keep clean. Not sure why. We used tinning compound on it a couple of times but the solder still wouldn't flow onto the tip as smoothly as it should have. Henk suggested that maybe the voltage in the system wasn't quite up to where it should be. It is an old building. Oh well, overall the session was a success.
Henk and I went to the club this morning to figure out what to do to fix some track that has shifted a bit. The suggestion on another thread was that we should have used latex caulking to glue the track down.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/269221/3051939.aspx#3051939
We decided that the track could be easily straightened and held in place by simply using more nails. The track crew was nailing every 4" which is the spacing of the nail holes in the Atlas track. Additional nails were added at rail joints and turnouts. We are going to put in nails every 2" to see if that solves the problem. Lifting the already laid track to apply latex caulking under it was deemed to be far more work than drilling ties and installing nails.
Much appreciate it sir, I'll check them out.
Ed
freeway3 ATLANTIC CENTRAL No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for......... Sheldon, I'm not far from your area (I'm in south central PA). May I ask the name of your source? Thanks! Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........
Sheldon, I'm not far from your area (I'm in south central PA). May I ask the name of your source?
Thanks!
Just a local, independent lumber yard/building supply, Kefauver Lumber in Forest Hill, MD.
But you might have similar success at Delta Lumber in Whiteford, MD, at little closer to you.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........
Well, I'm not in Florida, but plywood should always be stored laying flat in a stable environment.......
No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........
We just bought over 300 sq feet of 3/4 for the backs of large built in bookcases. No problem getting it or with its quality.
My concerns with plywood is getting a good product for a fair price.1) I have a concern with any Chinese plywood as I know that they sometimes (often) put things together in the most expeditious manner with the materials they have at hand at the moment,...including green wood, and poor glue. (don't let inventory get in the way of moving product out the door)2) Green wood and wood from a variety of souces can cause problems. I like the idea of a plywood manufacturer sourcing his wood from his own forest.3) Glues....such a variety, and chances that the best are NOT being used.
Here in FL we have a huge run on plywood during the past 2years of hurricanes, so many stores have tried to source new product,...a lot of it for housing contractors that don't worry so much about the quality as they will just be covering it up with a lot of other 'stuff'. So finding good quality can be a problem.
i was keeping an eye on a stack of promising 'blonde wood' at Lowes. At first it appeared to be very good quality, cabinette grade plywood, but after a while i began to see warping in the stack. I also had a 1/2" sheet in my carport that I got from a friend. Over a period of time it went thru all sorts of warping. Made me rethink using 1/2", and going to 3/4"
rrebell Yes, as I understand things, cabinet play is much more dimentionaly stable and less likely to swell too as long as sealed. That would be the ultimate choise for the boxes boxes.
Yes, as I understand things, cabinet play is much more dimentionaly stable and less likely to swell too as long as sealed. That would be the ultimate choise for the boxes boxes.
And maybe it is just the environments I have built layouts in, but again, no problems here with serious shrinkage or track buckling.......
Well, we talked about using Baltic Birch 11 or 13 ply but I guess we cheaped out. That's the problem with decisions being made by a committee.
railandsail railandsail I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time. Radiata Pinehttps://www.peri.com/en/products/panels/timber-construction/radiata-pine.html The Chilean plywood is ground on both sides and it is very inherently stable. This plywood panel is especially used for construction purposes for floors, roofs and walls, for the furniture and mould construction industry and for high-value packaging. http://www.araucoply.com/informacion2.asp?Submenu=1514&cat=0&fin=0&idioma=44http://chesapeakeplywood.com/radiata-pine-wholesale-plywood/
railandsail I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time.
I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time.
Radiata Pinehttps://www.peri.com/en/products/panels/timber-construction/radiata-pine.html The Chilean plywood is ground on both sides and it is very inherently stable. This plywood panel is especially used for construction purposes for floors, roofs and walls, for the furniture and mould construction industry and for high-value packaging. http://www.araucoply.com/informacion2.asp?Submenu=1514&cat=0&fin=0&idioma=44http://chesapeakeplywood.com/radiata-pine-wholesale-plywood/
I don't see anything special about these products. I can go 4 miles down the road and get high quality birch furniture plywood by the truck load - not at Home Depot..........
And that same guy sells this stuff too.....
rrebell 1x4 box with beaded foam caulked on top. Works great as the foam stays the same size. The foam only shinks if it is new, after awhile it has shrunk the 2% and stays the same size (I personalyy tested this, I am not very trusting).
1x4 box with beaded foam caulked on top. Works great as the foam stays the same size. The foam only shinks if it is new, after awhile it has shrunk the 2% and stays the same size (I personalyy tested this, I am not very trusting).
OK, I get that, but I'm not comfortable with foam. I want benchwork I can climb on/lean on if needed. My layout is 3-4 feet deep, the visable track is near the front, but I have staging behind the back drop/under the scenery.
The staging has other access, but again I want to be able to lean/climb as needed.
Do you use switch machines? What kind and how do you attach them? How thick is the foam?
rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface. And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........ Sheldon That helps, and not to get me wrong, people have been using ply for as long as I can remember. But we are trying as a whole in the hobby to make things as perfect as possible as far as running quality.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface. And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........ Sheldon
rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........
That helps, and not to get me wrong, people have been using ply for as long as I can remember. But we are trying as a whole in the hobby to make things as perfect as possible as far as running quality.
So what kind of benchwork do you use?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Two words, steel (or aluminum) yardstick. Sheldon
Two words, steel (or aluminum) yardstick.
Two more words: aluminum channel (or aluminium for our cousins in the Great White North).
I have several scraps of 3"x1/2" channel in various lengths from about 12" to 30" and two long pieces of about 4 feet and 7 feet.
When used with legs pointing down, you can easily straddle adjacent parallel tracks on the main or in yards. Pinching the track section being installed from both sides seems to help as well.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
rrebellTrouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
Well, if the plywood is the problem we're going to have to figure out how to deal with it. We sure as heck ain't gonna do it over!
One thing I haven't mentioned is that we are not soldering the rail joiners, even on the curves. Brian, the gentleman who is leading the track laying team, has already installed track on several curves and there are no kinks at the rail joints,at least so far anyhow. He is offsetting the rail joints by a few inches. He also has a rather unique method of joining the ends of the flex track sections that doesn't require the removal and replacement of any ties. He has used his methods for more than 20 years without any problems.
So far so good. No kinks on the curves. We shall see what the future holds.