Local control with no indexing should be just fine, unless the turntable is way to the back of the benchwork. The one ont he club layout that actually gets used (STILL can't get the Walthers built up one to work properly - all the transporting of the modules seems to keep knocking it out, most times it doesn;t even want to turn under manual control, let alone home and initialize. Transfer table constantly gets stuck, too, no matter how clean the pit and gear tracks are.) is some kit, not a Walters one, maybe CMR, don't think it's a Diamond Scale one, with a super simple mostly round plywood disk attached to the underside shaft and the drive out of some steam loco, with a rubber roller on the powered axle, the whole thing pivots and a spring holds the roller against the plywood disk. The spring and pivot action handles any out of roundness of the plywood disk (if you can cut a perfect circle in plywood with a saber saw, or a band saw, or similar, hats off to ya). Powering this contrption is an old walkaround type DC throttle It has a center off reverse switch, and someone scrated in the faceplate where to set the throttle speed, so all you have to do it flip the direction switch to rotate the table at a reasonable speed. It's right up front so easy to align tracks by eye. On top, it looks nice, all the typical detail is there, including the power wire to the center of the arch (dummy - track power comes in through 2 wipers on the shaft, no split ring, there's a DCC autoreverser connected). Underneath it looks a little scary - btu it's never failed. It's one of the older modules on the layout, and it's been set up then packed away and hauled to shows for at least 20 years now. There's something to be said for simple, versus some complex gee-whiz drive and indexing system. I intend to do much the same for my layout, except probbaly build the controls into the fascia rather than on a tethered box. Adding a decoder to run it on DCC just makes it needlessly complicated, requiring people to know the DCC address to select. Out of the question on the club layout where even after nearly 10 years of DCC only operations, some people have trouble selecting their own locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
hon30critter rrebell I have seen RTR turntables from Walthers on e-bay on occasion for cheap. bought mine for $50, seen 130' go for under $100. Hi rrebell, I believe it is a case of 'buyer beware' with the Walthers turntables. The ones that are going cheap are likely older kits that were not well designed and didn't work properly. I have done the 90' kit and it took a lot of work to get it to run reliably. I had to replace the molded plastic bogie wheels with brass wheels (the originals weren't even round), clean a lot of flash out of the gears, reposition the drive system to get the gears to mate properly and add brass bushings where the originals were plastic on plastic. The newer built up versions also have a completely different drive system which I believe is much quieter, and the indexing system is included. The older versions required that the indexing kit be purchased separately. Dave
rrebell I have seen RTR turntables from Walthers on e-bay on occasion for cheap. bought mine for $50, seen 130' go for under $100.
Hi rrebell,
I believe it is a case of 'buyer beware' with the Walthers turntables. The ones that are going cheap are likely older kits that were not well designed and didn't work properly. I have done the 90' kit and it took a lot of work to get it to run reliably. I had to replace the molded plastic bogie wheels with brass wheels (the originals weren't even round), clean a lot of flash out of the gears, reposition the drive system to get the gears to mate properly and add brass bushings where the originals were plastic on plastic. The newer built up versions also have a completely different drive system which I believe is much quieter, and the indexing system is included. The older versions required that the indexing kit be purchased separately.
Dave
rrebellNo, I am talking the good ones, not the kits, though these are the ones that came out before the DCC ones but they have less problens than the DCC ones. They were fully assembled at the factory.
I'll have another look.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
rrinker is some kit, not a Walters one, maybe CMR, don't think it's a Diamond Scale one, with a super simple mostly round plywood disk attached to the underside shaft and the drive out of some steam loco, with a rubber roller on the powered axle, the whole thing pivots and a spring holds the roller against the plywood disk
Sounds like it could be the old Bowser one.
http://modelrailroader.net/ho_turntables.php
A club I belonged to had one. It had pot-metal girder sides and a brass shim-stock pit wall. Once you got everything adjusted it seemed to run OK but we only had it in use for a few months before it was ripped out when the club went to N scale.
I have a 130 foot Diamond Scale and a New York Railway Supply stepper motor. Still can be a pain and the gear-reduced stepper motor has some back lash.
I wrote them to see if there is a better model of gearbox but the owner says no.
The controller can be upgraded so that one individual track can be programmed instead of having to re-program (re-index) ALL of the radial tracks just to make a minor adjustment on one track.
I may invest the fifty-bucks for this upgrade.
Good Luck, Ed
rrebellNo, I am talking the good ones, not the kits,
I checked eBay and there were 11 newer Walthers 130' turntables. They were all priced in the $350.00 Cdn price range.
For now we will live with the 90' turntable. Since I'm willing to give it to the club the price is right, and, as I have said, it operates quite well given the modifications I have made. No indexing, just an old model train power pack.
hon30critter I checked eBay and there were 11 newer Walthers 130' turntables. They were all priced in the $350.00 Cdn price range.
Why? Because I have steamers that won't fit on the 90' turntable.
I have a Walthers 90' turntable and a Walthers 130' turntable. The 90' is manual and the 130' is the non-DCC model. On the 130' turntable, I do not use the indexing feature, choosing instead to manually operate the control box to select the position of the bridge track. That works quite well.
If your club limits itself to the 90' turntable, you also limit yourselves to the types of steamers that can use the turntable based upon the length of the wheelbase.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainBut if this were my club, I would push for the Walthers 130' turntable.
Hi Rich!
Believe me we have discussed the merits of spending the big bucks on a 130' turntable, several times in fact.
Here are the conclusions that we came to:
- First, only one current member of the club has anything that would require a 130' turntable to turn it around.
- Second, the track plan allows for any locomotive to be turned simply by going around the loop that goes around the outside of the service area.
- Third, if we have a sudden influx of members with long equipment who demand to be able to use the turntable, then we can replace the 90' turntable with a larger version. The benchwork framing has been designed to accommodate the larger turntables if we choose to install one.
We are in a win-win situation here. For now we get a free turntable and roundhouse (six or nine stalls to be decided). If we later choose to increase the size of the turntable and the length of the roundhouse stalls then it will be easy to do. In the interim, we are ahead by $500.00.
Thanks for sharing your ideas Rich,
Cheers!!
hon30critter the track plan allows for any locomotive to be turned simply by going around the loop that goes around the outside of the service area.
richhotrainalthough the larger locomotives cannot make their way into the roundhouse for storage, repair, and maintenance.
Not so! If the track coming into the turntable is directly opposite a long enough stall in the roundhouse then any locomotive can simply run straight through the turntable to get into the stall. The challenge will be to modify the roundhouse so that the stall opposite the turntable feed track is long enough to accommodate said locomotive. That will require some roundhouse kit bashing but hey, that's half the fun!
hon30critterNot so! If the track coming into the turntable is directly opposite a long enough stall in the roundhouse then any locomotive can simply run straight through the turntable to get into the stall.
Great idea! And as far as the 90' TT, I run modern stuff, and even my longest 6 axle loco easily fits on a 90'er.
Not get too far , I have to dig back and find your build on that 90'er, I just picked one up.
Mike.
My You Tube
hon30critter rrebell No, I am talking the good ones, not the kits, I checked eBay and there were 11 newer Walthers 130' turntables. They were all priced in the $350.00 Cdn price range. For now we will live with the 90' turntable. Since I'm willing to give it to the club the price is right, and, as I have said, it operates quite well given the modifications I have made. No indexing, just an old model train power pack. Dave
rrebell No, I am talking the good ones, not the kits,
Big Turntable,
I scratch built my first one on my Central Midland layout.
Roundtable Zone I’ve always favored steam engines for their intricate nature and great variety of forms. So naturally there is a steam engine turntable and repair facility. And why not put this right up front where one’s collection of steam engines can be on display. This steam display replaces the diesel facility of the original Atlas plan. It features:
a) A fully operating turntable capable of handling a BigBoy or Allegheny. b) A roundhouse, and several different repair shops c) Outdoor track stowage (nice display of steam roaster) d) A water tower and diesel fuel tank e) A twin track coaling tower f) A twin track bridge crossing to this steam facility from the freight yard.
Trackplan modifications, turntable area I was just reviewing some older CD disc I had, and ran across these modification dwgs I had made. The addition of a turntable/roundhouse,...and the dbl tracks leading into it from the freight yard,... .....and the loop of track under the turntable scene, .....and the single track going out to the gravel pit .....and the double crossover in the dual mainlines just outside the yard's throat
I was just reviewing some older CD disc I had, and ran across these modification dwgs I had made.
The addition of a turntable/roundhouse,...and the dbl tracks leading into it from the freight yard,... .....and the loop of track under the turntable scene, .....and the single track going out to the gravel pit .....and the double crossover in the dual mainlines just outside the yard's throat
As my space was limited, I could not provide for a roundhouse track long enough for the Big Boy, so it just had to reside outdoors, and in a straight shot thru the turntable.
At first I was just going to provide a manual cable and wheel to operate the table, but then I got the idea that it would be a challenge to make it motorized. I used a big 'gearhead' reduction motor I got from a surplus electronics supply (All-Electronics I think it was called). I hooked that to an extra transformer I had, and had a rubber wheel spring loaded to ride against the edge of an old stereo turntable, all located below the pit area.
The bridge itself was fashioned from upside down Atlas deck girder bridges with upper walkway portions fashioned from bottoms of the Atlas curved chord bridges. The turntable tower was a metal casting piece that could be purchased from .......Diamond ScaleFinding and stabalizing the EXACT center for the pivot pin was a challenge.Even while operating it sloowly I found it somewhat difficult to lineup with tracks, particularly when they were off center to my viewing angle (and I had real good eyesight at that time). there was also some 'delay hicups' when backing up from a missed alignment.
Personally if the turntable is within reasonable arms reach, I would just go manual cable drive, and adjust my preferred speed ratio with gearing.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
mbinsewiNot get too far , I have to dig back and find your build on that 90'er, I just picked one up.
Here is the condensed version of the turntable modification thread:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/261225.aspx
Here is the longer version if you want to wade through it:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/258912.aspx
Thanks Dave!
I did some of the same things when I had the kit. I was able to use the bogie wheels on mine and all was well but I did not have the parts on hand to switch out the moter as I decided to go with an old club turntable moter I had but I was missing some of the couplings needed so was looking for them when I scored the Walthers 90' RTR and dropped the other project.
We ran into a little problem last Tuesday night when we wanted to work on the layout. Our illustrious leader Henk (Dutchman eh!) was unable to attend because he had a cold. Henk has been playing a crucial role in leading the construction of the layout. Without him there to tell us what to do we were a bit lost. A bit of work got done but not much.
Henk has been doing a lot of the work on the layout. In fact, he has been doing too much of the work. I sent him an email suggesting that in the future he should not do so much work on the layout himself and spend more time writing up instructions for what the rest of us can do next. We have talked before about how to keep the club members involved but we have lost focus on that goal. Fortunately he wasn't offended and he agreed to my suggestion.
We have agreed to do some simple things like put signs on the layout saying things like "Install cork to here" or "Install track to here" or "Do not install cork here". We will also write up more detailed instructions as needed.
Keeping everyone involved is proving to be a challenge!
Like herding cats.
rrinkerLike herding cats.
Except these cats want to be herded!
hon30critter rrinker Like herding cats. Except these cats want to be herded! Dave
rrinker Like herding cats.
And this clearly explains why I am no longer in any clubs.
No interest in being herded or doing any herding........
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo interest in being herded or doing any herding........
Well, there have been a couple of times when I might agree!
I look at the bright side - I'm getting to practice my diplomacy!
Productive night at the club on Tuesday. We got several pieces of the plywood cookie cutter sub roadbed cut. I think there are only three more to do for the mainline. We managed to get most of tonights cuts out of the plywood scraps leftover from cutting other pieces. We will still have to buy a couple more sheets of plywood and Homasote but that was the plan anyhow.
I have begun work on the control panel designs. 3rdPlanIt makes the task of drawing them up fairly easy. Bringing them into reality will probably not be quite so simple. I have seen several different methods of how to build control panels on the forums over the years so I will have to review them and choose one. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I have also started to figure out how to build the bridges. This is one of the pitfalls of CAD programs. You can draw whatever you want. That's easy. However, when it comes to building the bridges out of available components, that requires a bit more head scratching.
There are four major bridges in the plan. The longest will be about 80" and it has to go over four lower tracks which are not perpendicular to the bridge and are not all parallel. OH, and the bridge is curved at one end too! Figuring out what pre-made bridge sections can be used has been fun. The bridge supports have to fit between the lower tracks so the length of the bridge spans isn't very flexible. The finished result will have a variety of spans and piers and bents. So far it has worked out OK, but there will be some scratch building required in the curve to widen the bridges a bit. Lots more research to do!
The other thing that I am doing right now is modifying the turnouts to make them more reliable in the long run. I am following Allan Gartner's recommendations from 'Wiring for DCC'. I am installing jumpers from the point rails to the closure rails and from the closure rails to the stock rails. I am also installing brass 2-56 x 1/8" bolts (bolts were all I could find in the right length) in the frogs so we can solder on a feeder to control frog polarity. I only have about 50 turnouts to do - no big deal, right? I will leave a few unmodified because we want to run a workshop for the members to show them how to modify the turnouts and explain why we are doing the work.
That's all for now. Your comments and interest are very much appreciated.
For neatness, I still like the way I did it 2 layouts ago. The panel diagram was printed in color on fairly heavy paper, then this was sandwiched between two pieces of plexiglas. The plexi kept the printed part from getting damaged. Most switches easily fit through 2 layers of plexi. I painted the back panel flat black - so you could just use sheets of styrene for the back panel and get the same results.
I used what I had at the time - Visio - to draw the track and mark locations for the toggles and LEDs. Didn't even think of using 3rd PlanIt to do that part. You could certainly make them look much more fancy than mine, like include the railroad or club name and logo in an appropriate font. At the time I was figuring on that layout just being temporary and eventually extending it around the entire basement, at which point it would get a proper fascia and all the goodies.
I printed two copies - one in black adn white just to locate the holes to drill for the switches and LEDs, and then the color version for the final panel. Drilling larger (I think my toggles needed 1/4" holes, the LEDs were slightly smaller) can be tough - a step bit is what I would use today, then I used a succession of bits from small to large, and taped over the hole locations. I made the entire panel without cracking the plexi - then the first screw I used to mount it to the layout caused a crack. Doh!
Thanks for the control panel suggestions Randy.
Turntable listing ending in 6 hr Walthers 130', may go for under $100, just in case you are interested but you never know where an auction will end up. Same type as I have only 130' instead of 90', RTR out of box but no DCC which I think of as a plus because of all the proublems with the ones with DCC and you could always add DCC to this one if you feel the need.
rrebellTurntable listing ending in 6 hr Walthers 130', may go for under $100
Is it possible to provide a link to that listing, Rrebell?
I did an ebay search for "Walthers Turntable" and came up with 66 listings.
Many of the HO 130 footers were in the $320 range.
Thanks, Ed
It's a 2009 model. Do I remember some issues with earlier Walthers Turntables? Anybody who wants to bid, should research that.Edit well I remembered wrong, Randy cleared it up in the post that follows this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Scale-Cornerstone-130-Modern-Turntable/202237557013?hash=item2f164c3915:g:x8UAAOSw7vVaj3r4
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
There were no issues witht he built-up ones. It was the kits that were and still are a pain to get working right.
Never mind that the one on out club layout (or the transfer table) has ever worked to my knowledge. But it gets transported around in a trailer all the time, before that in an old school bus. And everyone says they cut the pit for the transfer table a shade too narrow, even though you can move it from one end to the other and it doesn't feel like it jams up at all.
MOST people have no problems with the built up indexed turntable.
BigDaddy$72 and 3hr and 18 min as I type
Thank You! I searched "Walthers" and should have searched "Cornerstone"
Ed
Turntable sold $163.50 + $17 shipping
Hi rrebell:
I missed your message when the auction was still on but thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. Actually, the listing would not have done us any good because the seller does not ship to Canada (why anyone would intentionally restrict their potential market by 10% is beyond me), but I will add the 130' turntable to my automatic searches. Maybe we will get lucky!