floridaflyerUsed heavy duty velcro to attach 40 tortoise in 2006. Have had no ill effects so far.
floridaflyer, thanks for sharing your experience.
I had a recent experience with velcro that pretty much proved how strong it can be. I was trying to undo the velcro closure on the cell phone pocket in my new winter coat. It was all I could do to open it up, and I have strong hands. I thought I was going to tear the coat liner.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
We have come to the conclusion that we have left ourselves short in terms of space for industrial scenes, and more importantly industrial track. Most of the spurs are too short to do anything other than move two or three cars around. Tonight I spent some time trying to add some length to the spurs, and I had a bit of success. In one area I was able to roughly double the industrial space by getting rid of a part of the hilly terrain and extending a bridge by about 24". I managed to add a couple of feet to three other sidings as well.
I also lowered the maximum elevation from 11" to 9" in order to create some level track on the higher areas. Previously the track went up and then started back down immediately. Now there is about 18' of level track at the highest point. Part of the reason for the change was that the slopes were getting too steep between the higher and lower track levels.
We decided to use DCC Specialities PSX-AR reversers for the two return loops and the turntable so those are on order.
Dave, I am a bit surprised that your club is running into these problems.
Maybe it is time to stop construction, step back and give this more thought, and re-draw the layout plan to more accurately set up the length of spurs and the elevations. Making changes on the fly may have short term solutions but long term consequences.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi Rich:
richhotrainMaybe it is time to stop construction, step back and give this more thought,
I think we can get what we want simply by eliminating some of the hills so we can enlarge the flat areas. After a couple of changes the plan has about 75' of 'industrial' sidings in total.
One bridge will be extended to around 90" which is pretty long, but there is a real bridge that goes over Parry Sound, Ontario that is 1695' long (234" in HO scale) so the long bridge will fit into our Northern Ontario theme quite nicely. It will be an interesting bridge to model because there are several different types of spans and both concrete and steel supports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqoG_5HDmow
hon30critter floridaflyer Used heavy duty velcro to attach 40 tortoise in 2006. Have had no ill effects so far. I had a recent experience with velcro that pretty much proved how strong it can be. I was trying to undo the velcro closure on the cell phone pocket in my new winter coat. It was all I could do to open it up, and I have strong hands. I thought I was going to tear the coat liner. Cheers!! Dave
floridaflyer Used heavy duty velcro to attach 40 tortoise in 2006. Have had no ill effects so far.
By the wording 'heavy duty velcro' shall I assume you are speaking of the heavy duty 'mushroom shaped plastic type',.....power lock or dual lock??https://www.zzounds.com/item--POWPGM?siid=190173
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
hon30critter We have come to the conclusion that we have left ourselves short in terms of space for industrial scenes, and more importantly industrial track. Most of the spurs are too short to do anything other than move two or three cars around. Tonight I spent some time trying to add some length to the spurs, and I had a bit of success. In one area I was able to roughly double the industrial space by getting rid of a part of the hilly terrain and extending a bridge by about 24". I managed to add a couple of feet to three other sidings as well.
Sounds like you learning quite a few interesting details about designing a layout,...even with that 'fancy computer software program' you were utilizing....ha...ha.(been away from the forums for about a week getting some offending obstacles removed myself (both Gall and Kidney stones)
Don't really know Brian. Just went to HD they had two types, one was heavy duty. Used that. I did use the same type to attach my skirting to the fascia. Has held up well. Added a small section to the layout and use "regular" velcro to attach the additional skirting, did not hold up well at all. There is a difference.
railandsailSounds like you learning quite a few interesting details about designing a layout,...even with that 'fancy computer software program' you were utilizing....ha...ha.
railandsail:
Sorry to hear about your getting stoned! Seriously, I had kidney stones in 1989 and I never want to go back there again! I got so many needles in my butt to kill the pain that the pain killers couldn't kill the pain in my butt! That's a Catch 22 if ever there was one!
I sense that you are not in favour of 'fancy computer programs'. Certainly the fancy layout design program doesn't prevent you from making errors. However, it does allow you to go back and quickly make changes which can immediately be applied to the layout under construction, so I think there is a net gain to using the software. Certainly the ability to generate plotting diagrams for laying out the track and cutting all the sub roadbed pieces has made the program quite usefull. The program has also allowed us to stick to our basic standards like minimum radii and workable grades.
I have to admit that the complications that we are encountering are largely my fault. Plain and simple, I stretched the rules. The reach in distances are a bit on the long side if you are standing on the floor, but a two step stool solves that problem. Some of the tracks at different elevations are too close together so the scenery slopes between the different elevations are a bit steep as drawn. We have already figured out how to solve that problem.
Bottom line is that the layout plan is not a disaster. Yes, we have encountered some challenges, but that's half the fun of the hobby. None of the challenges have brought us to a dead stop, and I will say that we probably would have made the same errors using pencil and paper.
Post deleted. Nothing ominous. It was regarding using regular Velcro. I just read floridaflyer's post that suggested that regular velcro might not be up to the task so we will use the heavy duty stuff. We have said strongly that we will not cut corners.
@Dave,Not opposed to the track design software at all, I'm just not proficient at learning it,....and I was under the impression it was much more accurate than it appears..... 'sometimes'.That ability to go back and make little changes and mods was one of the reasons I had wanted to utilize such a program.
railandsailI was under the impression it was much more accurate than it appears..
The CAD program I am using (3rd PlanIt) is very accurate! It renders your mistakes very accurately! It will draw whatever you tell it to. It won't do the designing for you. If you put two tracks too close together it will draw exactly that. However, there are some warning features. For example, you can set a minimum radius for the curves and if you draw a curve below that minimum radius the program will warn you, but it won't adjust the radius for you. There is a 'questionable track' feature as well. It will show you if adjacent track is too close together either horizontally or vertically based on the minimums you select. It will also show grades that are too steep. It's helpful in identifying technical errors but again, it won't design the layout for you. If you design the layout with sidings that are not long enough the program won't point that out.
The program is paying off big time for us as we build the layout. I have been able to pinpoint the end points of all of the turnouts and track pieces to within 1/16" so drawing the cut lines and track centers on the plywood and Homasote, and locating those pieces once cut has also been very accurate. You may recall my asking earlier about how to plot out the track plan 1:1. We mused about having the whole track plan printed full size (at considerable cost). CAD has made that really easy and very inexpensive.
Track is in blue. Plywood cut lines are in red. Grids are 12". Ignore the lines in the upper right. They are part of another diagram.
I actually got the image to post this time! Thanks again Henry.
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I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
All I can say is model railroaders tend to do things the hard way and paper dosn't always translate to being right as their are too many variables for the average person to put into the computer. Most things I do railroading wise are newer ways but final before building is ussually best laid out in some fashion.
JaBear:
Thanks for posting the diagram. Henry (Big Daddy) explained how to post an image from imgur so I edited the post above to insert the picture.
I'm going to test my imgur skills by posting another image. This is a 3D view of the Club's new layout. The image was generated by 3rd PlanIt:
It seems to have worked!
Looks good, Dave.
That's a nice looking track plan. Wish I could fit such a plan in my train shed.
I need to get back to making choices and going forward with the potential plans I have under consideration.
Thanks Rich and Brian.
We worked on the layout on Tuesday night. We wanted to lay more cork but in one area we were having a devil of a time matching the diagram to the cork that had already been laid. After some head scratching we realized that one of our members had laid several feet of cork without consulting the diagram. He missed a turnout! The funny thing was that when the work was being done I told the member that he was doing a great job! I didn't think to check the diagram. I assumed he was following it. It cost us about eight feet of cork and the time it took to figure things out. No big deal, but it did illustrate the folly of assuming that the guy doing the work was doing it accurately!
It's not in my nature to question everything. In fact, I'm too accepting. I guess I'll have to go a bit against my nature in the future.
Cheers everyone!
In some instances I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to just place the track on a sheet of cork, then carve around the finished track plan. certainly sheets of cork should be used for big 'areas' like yards, etc. and the rest of that roll of sheet cork coukd be cut into strips for conventional usage??
railandsailcertainly sheets of cork should be used for big 'areas' like yards, etc. and the rest of that roll of sheet cork coukd be cut into strips for conventional usage?
We do plan on using Mid West cork sheets for the yards and the service area, but for the mainlines and secondary track the bevelled cork strips are quick and easy.
One point about the 'rolled' cork sheets that you can get at the local big box stores. They are not the same as the Mid West cork sheets. The big box stuff has less bonding material than the Mid West cork. It has been suggested that the big box cork sheets can experience problems over time. In keeping with our policy of not cutting corners we have chosen to stick with the Mid West cork sheets.
hon30critterIn keeping with our policy of not cutting corners we have chosen to stick with the Mid West cork sheets.
I agree, Dave!
We are fortunate that Midwest still maintains a very good quality in their product. It seems to have a rubber-like material "alloyed" with the cork. It makes for a very stable and smooth base for our track.
At this very moment, I'm scraping up some Midwest cork that I put down over twenty-years ago and it is as good today as it was then!
I might mention to those who may not be familiar with the "split and beveled" roadbed that it is important to use a Stanlet Surform tool to remove the rough edge at the top of the bevel. If you don't do this it will haunt you later when you go to do your ballast.
The longer Surform plane is good for leveling the high spots of your roadbed.
I will use the "Craft Store" type cork sheets for structure or highway bases. One of the close-out stores had 12" squares of cork, 1/4" thick at $2. for a pack of 4.
I stocked up on those
Cheers! Ed
gmpullman I might mention to those who may not be familiar with the "split and beveled" roadbed that it is important to use a Stanlet Surform tool to remove the rough edge at the top of the bevel. If you don't do this it will haunt you later when you go to do your ballast.
I use one of those blade breakoff knives to fix any inperfections on the sides of the cork. So who remembers when there was a cork shortage about 5 years back and they bought Midwests cork with more rubber in it, they soon went back to the old formula but that stuff was almost impossible to sand and would not carve down smoothly.
Interesting cork cutting setup,...look down just a few photos for pic and description
http://wyomingdivision.org/photographs.htm
...lets experiment
Considering how big a layout those guys are building (look at all the benchwork pieces stacked up on the left), it probbaly saves a lot in the long run to use a roll of cork and cut it themselves. But for most home layouts? By the time you built the cutting table and build it, you could just buy a few boxes of Midwest cork and be done.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Just a couple of pictures of the layout progress:
The partially built peninsula framing is in the forground and you can see the elevated track in the backgound. The peninsula is 9' x 16'. It will have two or three access hatches so we can reach into the center. There will be no track in the center so access is only needed during construction:
The service area is larger than it appears. It is 19' from the top of the balloon to the back wall:
The Layout Committee had a productive meeting tonight. One of the discussions was about whether or not to add jumpers to the Atlas turnouts between the point rails and the closure rails. Adding the jumpers is recommended by Alan Gartner in his Wiring for DCC blog to guarantee long term proper operation of the turnouts. Any comments?
DO it now. Far easier to add them BEFORE the turnouts are installed. Though I've seen a way using a springy phosphor bronze wire just stuck between the stock and point rails and held there by virtual of it being springy, but that won;t be as goods as small flexible jumpers soldered on.
Anything that improves long term reliability, especially for a slight effort, is well worth it, especially for a larger layout. Fix 50 turnouts now, while you cna sit at a workbench and turn them every which way to get access, or wait and troubleshoot them one at a time when a train suddenly starts stalling where it used to run fine, which of COURSE will happen on the busiest day of a public open house.
rrinkerDO it now. Far easier to add them BEFORE the turnouts are installed.
I'm going to quote you Randy!!! We have one member who doesn't think it is worth the effort to install the jumpers, but even he admits that he does have occasional problems with dead switches. I volunteered to install the jumpers. I have done 39 Pecos for my own layout and it only took a couple of evenings. The Atlas turnouts are far simpler to do.
Thanks for confirming my decision to add the jumpers.
I was going to add, if you have anyone remeotely decent at soldering, it shouldn;t take long if all capable people pitch in. Even non-solderers, if you do it assembly line fashion - you don't have to know how to solder to cut little piece of wire to length.