ROBERT PETRICKThe Wind River Canyon occupies a 17-foot long by 5-foot wide peninsula on my layout. Many modelers would consider it a sin to devote so much benchwork real estate to a single design element
When the scenery looks like that how could it be wrong? I love it and think that it might be the highlight of your layout. The spaces like that make the other places seem farther apart. It adds a lot of 'miles' to your layout.
There's another thread that deals with carving rocks from foam, and it contains some pretty good advice. One idea is mentioned by several posters: mainly, just do it! With a sharp chisel or ice pick in one hand and a wire brush in the other, let loose and flail away. I agree with that attitude, with some slight refinement. Just do it, but with a little restraint. Like many design elements in our hobby, landforms can follow and emulate a particular prototype, and I plan to do just that.
The Wind River Canyon occupies a 17-foot long by 5-foot wide peninsula on my layout. Many modelers would consider it a sin to devote so much benchwork real estate to a single design element, and they make a pretty good point. My prototype is (oddly enough) the Wind River Canyon, an officially designated Wild and Wonderful scenic route through central Wyoming that contains some of the oldest rock formations on the planet. I am attempting to reproduce several of them (the formations, not the canyons) at 1:160 scale. The area of interest for my layout is a small portion of the canyon gorge in the vicinity of Boysen Dam, just south of the picturesque resort town of Thermopolis (so named because of the world-famous hot springs). The gorge is about 1500 feet deep with sheer, solid rock walls. On the model the landform strata go about 18" below and 16" above track level. As steep as they appear, they are actually compressed vertically by about one-quarter height. Even N-scale requires selective compression.
I live in the Big Horn Basin, and the only way out to the south goes through the Wind River Canyon. My research for this project has consisted mainly of driving back-and-forth through the canyon dozens of times, marveling at the rugged scenery, and muttering to myself "Dang! I should get some photos!" Finally one day I literally jumped out of my pickup and snapped a few with my cell phone (hey, 12 megapixels . . . not bad!). My friends and neighbors who see the layout in person will (I hope) recognize the area. My geologist friends will know the different strata, but they will almost certainly cringe that I reproduced them haphazardly and out of proper sequence. Oh well, creative license and whatnot. More on that later. For now, here are a few photos.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICKHow far (or how close) should the signal mast be to the point of switch?
This is where Google maps sattelite view is useful. Pick a sopt on your protype, find the signal and with a right click google will measure it for you. I just measured one on the section of the NS that I'm modeling and the signal is 26 feet in front of a crossover. 3 others I measured are between 50 and 60 feet.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Hey Robert:
Things are coming along nicely. I haven't checked in for a while. The bridges and tunnel portals look great. I will be interested to see your signal system in action once it is installed.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Now that the landforms are shaping up, it's time to put on my Tunnel-Portals-R-Us hat. They're not very fancy, and in fact one is very un-fancy, but they fit the prototype and they serve their purpose and they're easy to make. Fabricated from ABS sheet and painted with gray primer. They'll be painted antique white or dove gray or something and then beaten up a little and distressed and stained to look like old concrete.
The signal plan is complete. JMRI has been piddled with sufficiently so that the logic seems correct and the signals are working as expected. The signals themselves have been wired and temporarily mounted on a scrap piece of wood and tested, and they also work as expected.
Now it is time to actually drill holes in the layout and install them. How far (or how close) should the signal mast be to the point of switch? In 1:1 feet or 1:160 inches. Keep in mind there are tortoises directly underneath. The tall masts are 4-aspect NJI N-scale 3-over-3s, and the dwarfs are 2-aspect shorties.
Thanks.
Here's a sketch of the layout control plan showing the (relative) locations of all turnouts, detection blocks and sections, signal masts, and signal heads within the portion of the layout that is signalized.
Signals will be NJI double-headed three-over-three four aspect (red, green, yellow, flashing yellow) black masts and two aspect (red, green) black dwarfs. All signals will be tall masts except those in the chemical-plant-paper-mill-complex which will be the dwarfs.
JMRI and Digitrax SE8C require two addresses for the four aspect signals and one address for the two aspect signals. Addresses and orientations are shown on the sketch for the placement of the signals.
This sketch was drawn using AutoCAD, and I'm using it to work out the logic for control of all signalization on the layout. I have a working panel layout inside JMRI, but it is even cruder than this. It does function, however; it's just a little ragged. I'll piddle with that later.
Here's a sketch showing the areas that have detection blocks, signals, and motor-driven turnouts installed. I'm working on the control plan for ABS and CTC using JMRI Panel Pro. Details to follow in a day or so.
This sketch was drawn using AutoCAD, but there is a drawing feature inside Panel Pro that will be used to create the dispatcher console. It uses animated icons for the various components of the system. The icons are also hot buttons that can be used to throw or close switches and change aspects of the signal heads. It can highlight blocks and sections that are occupied. It can allow the dispatcher to hold or release signals and create and manage routes. It can also be used as a throttle to run trains. And it has some flexibility so that the user can create his own icons and draw background images and throttles and whatnot.
Since I'm adding photos, here's one more:
A pair of 4-axle Dash 8-40Bs and a venerable SD60 in CSX Bright Future paint scheme cross the Colorado Bridge hauling mixed freight.
Another view. Notice the 'hidden' staging on the lower level.
This three-span bridge is a temporary structure holding the place (and allowing traffic to cross the river inlet channel) until I finish scratch-building the Win Littlefield Bridge. Each span is 22 inches, and the total length is 66 inches. When completed, the single-span Littlefield Bridge will be 66 inches overall length. The piers are made from 2x4's, and since this is temporary structure there was no particular effort to gussie them up other than a quick coat of rattle can paint.
There are many such multi-span camel arch bridges across major rivers in North America. This one is loosely based on the Big Four Bridge across the Ohio near Louisville, Kentucky. I'm okay with this holding position for a while, quite a while if necessary. A very good modeler had a temporary plywood bridge in a very prominent spot on his layout for at least three years that I know of. I hope to have something before then.
Your bridge scene, over Wind River canyon is looking great!
When you started this project, someone said that this would be one of your favorite spots to photograph trains.
I can look past the wood, foam, etc, and see great rock cliffs, and the rushing river below, and high cliffs above the tracks, covered with trees and foliage, and the train winding it's way through it all. Your scenery already looks like it will dwarf the trains.
Mike.
My You Tube
Here's a photo. I don't particularly like showing work in progress (I'd prefer to show finished scenes to get the full effect), but since most of the members of this community are brothers in the craft and have taken the sacred oath of fellowship, I'll continue posting some (warts and all).
A PRR Broadway Limited stretches its legs in the intermodal yard (notice the forlorn containers stacked up?) while the giant Godzilla drill hovers nearby. A UP SD80/90 appears to have gotten lost trying to travel cross-country.
I’m still doing a lot of work and making a lot of progress on the layout, but once again, the results aren’t particularly photogenic. Yes, I am running trains and it might appear that I’m just playing around. And yes, I can see how it might look like that, but I am running trains over every inch of track purposefully: I’m looking for dead spots, dirty sections, and listening for the tell-tale squeak and grind that might indicate rail gauge issues. I’m unpacking trains (some that are known to be ornery and some that are known to be solid and reliable, like old comfortable shoes) and running them forwards and backwards through every turnout at scale 1 MPH and 100 MPH. I’m trying to induce derailments, to cause shorts and uncouplings, to run switches and jam up sidings; I’m watching headlights and passenger car interior lights for flickering. I’m looking for trouble, and if I can’t find any, I’m trying to cause some. So far, so good.
The command station and wiring are working. The booster section is working. The duplex throttle is throttling and the auto-reversers are reversing as expected. I’m running trains through every possible scenario (and some not-so-possible scenarios), and things appear to be handling the work. I can throw all the turnouts from the hand-held throttle, from the push-buttons on the fascia, and from my laptop connected to the layout via Digitrax PR3Xtra.
My latest thing: I’ve installed JMRI and have been playing with it the past few days. I’ve built rosters of all turnouts, all detection blocks, and all signal masts and signal heads. I’m working through the process of programming logic to control the signaling system as either ABS or as CTC with the laptop serving as a dispatcher’s console. Interesting (and challenging) stuff. Climbing the learning curve takes actual effort, but it can be a lot of fun!
One of the problems with having a Golden Spike Ceremony is that afterwards it gets really easy to lose focus on the construction work that still needs to be done and start playing with trains on the Plywood Pacific; despite the clutter, despite the tools and paint and supplies and whatnot laying all over the place.
The first day was important. I had to check the turnouts and wiring and make sure there weren't any dead spots or shorts. The second day was also important. I had to unpack and check out the engines and rolling stock, some of which hadn't been used in four or five years. You know, quality control.
So, while I was at it I snapped a photo with my cell phone, so please forgive the fuzzy image. Also, don't pay too much attention to the pink and blue styrofoam. The sheets are rough cut and placed loosely into position to start getting an idea as to the landforms. They need to be carved, rasped, spackled, and plastered, and then covered with cheesecloth and molded rocks. And don't pay any attention to the colors. They won't always be pink and blue. One day soon everything will be painted brown, brown, brown, tan, and brown.
Here're a few photos of a pair of AC4400s hauling coal across the Chief Washakie Bridge in Wind River Canyon. Not exactly up to par for Weekend Photo Fun or Show Me Something, but I'll get there . . .
ROBERT PETRICKATTENTION! Stand by for an important announcement . . . Golden Spike Ceremony tomorrow at noon.
Congratulations Robert!
Nice bridge!
I like your signalling system too.
ATTENTION! Stand by for an important announcement . . . Golden Spike Ceremony tomorrow at noon. Champagne, strawberries, ice cream, and high fives all around.
This is a red letter day for the SNSR. I have finished track laying on the upper level. Well . . . not completely finished. Not entirely. But I have finished in the sense that most model railroaders understand the word finished to mean: mostly finished, kinda finished, almost finished, more finished than not. Like that. Nothing is ever completely finished in this hobby. Almost nothing, almost ever.
Nevertheless, I'm celebrating. Then back to work. Scenery, landforms, plaster, paint, grass, weeds, rocks, water, vegetation, buildings, wire, wire, and wire.
Now that the track is (mostly) laid and the wiring is (mostly) installed (see previous post), it is time to turn my attention to scratch-building the bridge that links the two-thirds of the layout that is tracked and wired to the one-third that isn't.
Here're two photos of a bridge that I built two years ago for another layout. It was built with a plywood modular frame so that it could be transported 250 miles to the club layout and simply dropped into place and secured to the L-girders.
The upcoming bridge will be very similar, but the proportions and lengths will be changed slightly. The previous was 52 inches overall (695 scale feet) with a 28-inch main span and two 12-inch side spans; the new will be 60 inches overall (800 scale feet) with a 32-inch main span and two 14-inch side spans.
Part B to the bridge construction will be scratch-building a waterline model of a Coast Guard Cutter to pass underneath similar to the one shown in this photo of the Burnside Bridge in Portland, Oregon.
Robert ... Good to see your work in progress. Nice track plan. .... I like what you have done so far building the Casper station.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
It has been exactly six months since I started actual construction on my layout. On the whole, I am pretty satisfied with the progress I've made and where I am right now. It is a fairly large layout (fairly large, not outrageously large), and I expected quite a lot of work. I figured about a year or so to get things mostly completed. Mostly completed, not completely completed. As almost everyone on this forum knows, things are never completely completed. I hope to be a few steps beyond the Plywood Pacific stage at the one year mark, and I think I am still pretty much on schedule.
As things stand right now: the heavy carpentry and construction of the benchwork is done, most of the track is laid, most of the underwiring is complete, and I can run trains. There was another thread that asked "Which comes first . . . the track or the wiring?" and the answer is they both come at the same time. They have to be worked simultaneously, or at least a firm plan has to be in place so that they end up in sync. One of the reasons I am a little behind schedule (or I would be behind schedule if I had an actual schedule) is that I changed vision about a month ago when I decided to fully incorporate block detection and signaling up front in the construction, and I greatly expanded the scope of both. I kinda loosely planned to initially have no signals and add a few at a later date. But I decided to add those few now, and once I started, I continued to add a few more here and a few more there until I had more than a few; quite a few in fact. Now, the entire built up industrial/commercial/municipal areas of the layout have been blocked out and signalized. That required additional work. I started with a plan to have an old-fashioned layout with hand-thrown turnouts and a simple buss running parallel underneath. Adding block detection (and signaling and remote controlled Tortoises and whatnot) required many busses and tons of wiring underneath to connect everything to the BDL168 and the SE8Cs. Make no mistake, I'm not complaining about the additional work. I am glad for it because I think in the end it will turn out to be well worth the effort. But in the meanwhile, it does mean additional work . . .
And to make sure things are clear, the work described here only covers about two-thirds of the upper level. Things abruptly end at the Evel Knievel drop off of the river inlet channel of the deep-water port. That chasm will be spanned by a high-level bridge which will need to be scratch-built. I'm not daunted by the scratch-build . . . I've done several such long-span bridges. In fact I look forward to that task, but it means layout work will have to be set aside for a little while.
Here's a sketch showing the areas that have been tracked, blocked, wired, and signaled (the shaded area represents work done so far):
EDIT: When I started this thread I was using PhotoBucket, but I then started a layout construction blog on one of those free personal blog sites. I will make an effort to update and re-reference those first few photos. Of course, there's no guarantee Blogger won't go the same way as PB with little or no warning.
Work is proceeding even though I haven't posted much lately.
The original plan was to construct this layout more or less like previous layouts: with hand-thrown turnouts and #12 buss wires running underneath the deck and following the trackage above. The plan was to get things up and running simply and add signals and whatnot later.
mbinsewi I used cardboard mock-ups for my structures. None of the packaged kits would work, so I "kit-bashed" parts, Walther's, DPM, and others. Mike.
I used cardboard mock-ups for my structures. None of the packaged kits would work, so I "kit-bashed" parts, Walther's, DPM, and others.
Hey Mike-
That is exactly the approach I'm taking. Entire industries and blocks of buildings where mock ups serve as placeholders until they can be built. They can stay in place for a few weeks or a few months or even a few years.
When I walk into the train room, I can see pretty much the ultimate build out. But when visitors walk in, I'm not sure exactly what they see. A plywood maze or something. I spend a lot of time waving my arms around and explaining that a chemical plant will be here and a deep-water port will be there and another thing will be over there and another thing will be behind it and the hills and valleys and trees and whatnot will be all over the place . . .
I noticed your pink foam substrate in the top photo. That is the same way I create landforms. Two-inch rigid insulation carved along contour lines and stacked pancake style. I've tried chicken wire and plaster-soaked paper towels and woven carboard lattice strips, but the rigid foam seems to be easiest and produces the best results.
hon30critter The mock up of the BN Casper station is great too. I am assuming that there will be additional height added to the walls when the second storey 'false roof' is installed (I'm not sure if that is the right term).
The mock up of the BN Casper station is great too. I am assuming that there will be additional height added to the walls when the second storey 'false roof' is installed (I'm not sure if that is the right term).
Hey Dave-
Yes, the coping and the trim along the roof line needs to be fleshed out a bit. And the windows don't seem to line up right. But those are just the sort of things these mock ups help me with.
Along the architecture front . . . I have plans for a church, a department store, and a county court house, not to mention a library, two theatres, a fire station, a gas station, and a prompt service restaurant. Fellow model railroaders roll their eyes at me a lot whenever I get excited about offline structures. Oh well.
These mock ups will serve as placeholders for a while. The first structures that need to be built are the two high-level bridges. Otherwise, the track will come to a sudden stop.
Robert!
Modelling 'Fallingwater' sounds like a great idea. I am a huge fan of Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture. I think Fallingwater is my favourite. Your mock up is a great start. Even though it is very simple, it says "Frank Lloyd Wright" immediately.
Great work, even though both projects are still in their infancy.
I don't do mock ups personally. I usually have a pretty good picture in my mind of what I want, and so far I have only rejected one structure which turned out to be way too big for HO. However, I don't really know where I am going until I get there, whereas you have the advantage of a very clear view before you invest a lot in materials and time.
While I'm piddling with mockups, here are two photos of my version of Frank Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater :
I'm an engineer, but like George Costanza I've always wanted to pretend to be an architect. There'll be a little forested area just east of town, complete with babbling brook and waterfall and whatnot. A spot specifically designed to place this little gem. Not much of a gem just yet (barely a 20% model), but I plan to make a pretty good effort at the scratch build when the time comes.
Rod Stewart doesn’t believe in cardboard mockups. I do. I like them, but who am I to gainsay a Knight of the British Empire? They (mockups, not knights) help visualize things and are quick and easy to cut out and assemble. I can check for mass and volume and placement, and check for viewpoints and viewblocks and shadows. Reach-in, reach-over, and reach-around are always considerations. Proportions and scale and whatnot.
Here are a couple of photos of my latest mockup together with a photo of the prototype: the old Burlington Railroad Station in Casper, Wyoming.
I’d call this about a 50% model. Built from matboard, not cardboard. Using colored matboard means no painting required. The size and shape are about right. The color and texture are fairly close. There’s some minimal detailing (cutout windows and doors, overhang canopy, minor trim, and a hint of a parapet around the roof).
By way of contrast, a 10% model might be nothing more than a small cigar box or a block of wood quickly spray painted to represent a building; or a soup can or a tuna fish can to represent ground storage tanks; or a paper towel roll to represent a tall chimney or smokestack.
A 100% model would be the Full Monty: a completely constructed kit-built, kit-bashed, or scratch-built structure; the full array of fiddly bits and details; carefully painted and weathered. I’ve never actually built a 100% model, but that doesn’t really matter for purposes of this discussion. If I reach 70% or 80% . . . I’m dancing in the streets.
Just piddling with a few things while I'm waiting for delevery of electronic stuff from MBKlein.
I haven't posted much lately. Not because I'm not working on the layout, but because the work I'm doing isn't really very photogenic. Mostly behind-the-scenes stuff. Or more to the point, under-the-scenes stuff. As of right now, 98% of the benchwork is in; that includes both underdeck framing and plywood surfacing. With most of the ground plane in place, that means I can start laying track. So I have. Well . . . technically . . . I'm not laying track I'm laying cork, but that is pretty much the same thing and is every bit as satisfying. And, every little bit of work I do and every little piece I add to the layout helps me 'measure' things to make sure that stuff turns out as planned; particularly reach-in clearances and view point vistas.
Continuing work on the Wind River Canyon peninsula. Added framing and plywood track base. As trains enter and exit the horseshoe bend, they disappear into tunnels. This serves two purposes, a) it helps disguise the roundy-roundy effect, and b) it follows the prototype, which has two tunnels in the area of interest (plus three automobile tunnels). Trains emerge on the far corner on a low-level trestle and smoothly transition into the next scene on the other side of the skyboard view block.
It might look like the tracks are elevated through this section, but remember this is a canyon and the scenery goes 18" below track level and 18" above.
The Evel Knevel dead-end ramps will be spanned by the Chief Washakie Bridge, a double-track underdeck Pratt truss bridge. Those little shelves about two-thirds the way up will support concrete bridge abutments anchored to and embedded in the solid rock canyon walls.
Heartland Division CB&Q Robert .... I'm very impressed with the construction.... You will be laying a lot of track ..
Robert .... I'm very impressed with the construction.... You will be laying a lot of track ..
Hey Garry-
Yes, there is quite a bit of track to be laid, but I think the real challenge will be the buildings and structures. There are some pretty decent kits available, and some are pretty complex, but many are simple DPM-type four-walls-and-a-roof deals. But most of the stuff on my layout will need to be scratch-built, and most of them have been completely designed in my head. It's just a matter of getting to the getting.