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SNSR Layout Build

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, March 5, 2017 7:11 PM

Low-angle views of the lower deck hidden staging yard. Won't really be hidden. Just kinda down-over-there-and-out-of-the-way . . .

A high-level long-span bridge will cross the gap of the upper level.

Robert

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, March 5, 2017 12:07 PM

Added plywood decking to the upper and lower levels of the Wind River Canyon peninsula. Technically, this area of the layout does not have a lower level. The lower level decking shown is the bottom of the canyon where the river will be constructed. Sheer rock walls will be built up using the normal techniques: rigid foam insulation carved following contour lines and stacked pancake-style, interwoven cardboard lattice strips, chicken wire hardware mesh, lightweight plaster, molded rock faces, etc. The nominal height of the benchwork in this area is 52 inches: top of rail elevation 52", river 18" below rail (elevation 34"), and canyon rim 18" above rail (elevation 70"). That gap in the plywood deck is there to accommodate a crack/fissure/crevice in the canyon wall that will be spanned by a girder deck bridge of some sort. Just left of it, the double mainline will cross the river via the high-level Chief Washakie Bridge.

The room is getting pretty dang full, and it is getting harder and harder to find someplace to stand to take photos. So, I'm including a few from different viewpoints to convey the info as best I can. Sorry for cluttering up the broadband.

The entire Wind River Canyon peninsula is a single layout design element (LDE). The design and construction of this LDE, including a lengthy discussion of background and prototype research for the project, is fairly well described in Layout Design Journal No 60 (1st Quarter 2017), published by the Layout Design Special Interest Group (LDSIG). Here's a link to their website LDSIG and to their Facebook page LDSIG

Robert

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, February 26, 2017 5:57 PM

Framing for the Wind River Canyon peninsula. As things stand right now, the footprint for the entire layout is pretty much in place. A lot more work to do to flesh it out, but I can get a rough idea of how much space and mass the layout will take up. That break in the middle of the far side of the first photo is supposed to be there. A fairly deep river valley inlet will be constructed there that will be crossed by a high-level long-span bridge.

Making progress.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:18 AM

Upper level decking in the vicinity of the helix. You will have noticed a big square hole. That is to accommodate the duckunder/popup/liftout section(s). It is 33" by 66". The trackplan for that area shows mostly scenery: the rolling hills and green pastures of Yasgur's Farm and the stark grit and grime of Brunswick Steel. I have a large piece of 2" foam which weighs almost nothing, and the whole shebang can be fabricated as a single piece that lifts out like a giant deli tray. Or maybe two large deli trays. Either way, the thing will be how to disguise the joints. I have several ideas; the usual tricks: fences, hedgerows, trees, large boulders, drainage ditches, low mounds, buildings, retaining walls, and the like. There are only a few vantage points for spectators, and the idea is to determine how best to block views from those points. Most people won't notice at all, and I think it's best to not call attention to anything in particular.

The tape on the floor was put there eariler to give me an idea of layout extents and reach-in distances. It still serves a useful purpose to let me know when I can un-duck when exiting the lower regions.

Next up: Wind River Canyon Peninsula.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 18, 2017 3:54 PM

The helix in its final position. The grade and the alignment match the 'cookie-cutter' vertical curve cut from the plywood sheet of the benchwork to the right. Can't see from this photo, but there is a grade line penciled in on the wall under the window sill.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:07 PM

I have limited experience with helixes. I built one, in N scale, for my friends Norfolk Southern layout.

.

We used N scale Kato Unitrack with A+ results. We set it in place, then glued 5/16" wooden cubes, 4 per section, to act as guides to hold everything in place. Nothing special about that size, for some reason he had hundreds of them on hand. This way everything was easily removable for maintenance that was never needed.

.

We used Kato's terminal joiners every three sections. There were zero operational issues with the helix.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 18, 2017 1:43 PM

carl425

Usual practice is to lay the track on lap 1 before building the subroadbed for lap 2.

Hey Carl-

Yeah, usually that's true. This helix was specifically designed to use Kato Unitrack 28.25" radius pieces because a) that stuff is rock solid reliable, and b) I have a ton of it in a bunch of old shoe boxes. I figure I should get some eco-environmental points for using recycled materials.

After everything is in place, the plan is to put a globule of rubber cement here and there under the built-in track bed to keep things from moving around on the plywood ramp. Rubber cement, not contact cement; you know, that rubbery stuff that never seems to harden that credit card companies use to send out their pre-approved cards. AARP also uses it to attach membership cards to their (all-to-frequent) unsolicited invitation letters. MRR used to use it to attach mailing address labels. It peels off easily and doesn't leave a residue.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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  • From: Richmond, VA
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Posted by carl425 on Saturday, February 18, 2017 1:12 PM

Usual practice is to lay the track on lap 1 before building the subroadbed for lap 2.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, February 18, 2017 12:16 PM

Robert,

.

I have been following this threrad, and I am enjoying it very much. The neatness that you have when doing carpentry work will never be duplicated by myself, but it is an inspiration.

.

Please keep the updates coming along.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 18, 2017 11:49 AM

The rest of the helix ramp. Piece of cake.

A specific design criteria is that I be able to duck under and stand up inside the helix. With a 28" centerline radius (56" diameter), this criteria is easily met.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, February 17, 2017 3:00 PM

It does look good Robert!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Friday, February 17, 2017 12:45 PM

First lap of of helix ramp. So far, so good.

Close-up of ramp section bolted to gusset plate of previous section.

Making progress.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:45 PM

A complete single lap of the helix requires 12 slats connected with 'gusset' plates. The slats and plates are cut from 1/2" plywood and pre-assembled into 3-banger (1/4 of a circle) and 4-banger (1/3 of a circle) sub-assemblies. The gussets of the sub-assemblies are glued to the plates. After the glued joints set up, the sub-assemblies will be brought to the layout room and installed on the helix base, and the end plates of each sub-assembly will be connected to the next adjacent sub-assembly with 6-32 by 1-1/4" flat head machine screws.

Sketches showing details and dimensions and whatnot for this construction are in the other thread.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, February 11, 2017 9:32 PM

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/259590.aspx

Clickable link to the other thread.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2014
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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 11, 2017 9:25 PM

Helix base in approximate location in the layout. The threaded rods are a little bit ahoo. The nuts are loose or barely finger tight. The holes in the wood base are 7/16" diameter and the rods are 3/8" diameter. That allows a little play so that things can be swoggled around as needed. As pieces and parts are added, they can be positioned and re-positioned and then tightened a little at a time until everything is in place. After final grade and alignment are checked, then everything can be tightened.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, February 11, 2017 4:44 PM

The helix base, cut and assembled in the garage/workshop and brought into the layout room. Vertical all-thread rods and legs will be added shortly.

 

Here's a link to a discussion thread that included my design of this particular helix.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/259590.aspx

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 9:24 AM

hon30critter

Let me ask a question if I may. Would it not be easier to do all the under layout work (wiring etc.) without the fascia in the way?

Yeah, good point. Keeping an eye out for potential problems really helps avoid actual problems down the line.

The upper level is 52", so working underneath while standing shouldn't be a problem. The lower level is 33", so however you look at it I'll be on my butt crawling around like a crab. Plus, the fascia is only 4" for the upper and 6"for the lower, so not much additional obstruction. I just want to cover up the ends of the girders and see what the coved corners and the rounded end of the peninsula look like.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, February 6, 2017 10:29 PM

Robert!

Excellent progress!

I eagerly await your helix construction pics. I have two to build sometime in the reasonably near future.

Let me ask a question if I may. Would it not be easier to do all the under layout work (wiring etc.) without the fascia in the way?

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Monday, February 6, 2017 10:00 PM

The essential features of the upper and lower decks of the middle peninsula and the east (right-hand) side of the layout are in place. Not finished, not by a long shot. But in. The abrupt end of the benchwork at the right edge of the top photo is where the deep valley of the river inlet will be constructed and where the tracks will span the opening via the high-level bridge. Ocean-going ships pass under the bridge and make their way to the deep-water port of the lower level.

Here's an overhead view.

And a low-angle view. A specific design criteria is that access to the lower level be completely unobstructed, whether visually or physically. The cantilever arms make that possible.

 

Upper and lower fascia will soon be added, the rest of the lower level backdrop will be added and painted sky blue, braces will be removed, and then . . . pause for a little dramatic music . . . The Helix.

 

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, January 31, 2017 9:51 PM

Adding plywood deck to upper level.

 

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Monday, January 30, 2017 11:20 PM

Added cantilever arms framing for the upper level along the right wall. Added 1/2" plywood deck for the horseshoe bend of the lower level yard, matching the surface elevation of the 1-1/4" hollow core doors of the straightaways.

Robert

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:30 PM

Framing for the upper level at the rear of the harbor aisle connecting the middle peninsula with the deck along the right-hand wall. The cross beam for the lower level is not yet installed. It will be a little tricky because the horseshoe bend of the lower deck is 1/2" plywood and the straightaways are 1-1/4" lightweight hollow-core doors. The upper deck in this area of the layout is 1/2" plywood.

The risers on the rear wall (left side of photo) are for the ramp leading to the helix. The upper level track plan shows the branch line and turnout. The idea is to make a 'cookie cutter' sawcut and flex the plywood into a 'natural' vertical curve easement. The risers are there to make sure the natural curve fits the design curve. Design vertical curve is 40" long and the down slope (after the curve) is 2.1%. If you look close, you can see the vertical grade line penciled in on the wall under the window.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v9VxkfXOPh8/WI0ZMY1a1gI/AAAAAAAAAFs/90yldx1oXJwLz8CCA1KuKRpQIrEw3-NqACLcB/s1600/SNSR-006.JPG

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:30 PM

Continuing work on the middle peninsula. Extended toward the front by three sections and toward the rear by one section. First rear section is connected to the benchwork along the right wall by a single 2x4 beam. More beams will be added to form framework to support the horseshoe bend of the lower level yard. Added risers to support the upper level. Added skyboard backdrop of lower level yard to risers. This piece of 1/4" plywood is important and forms a stiffening rib that provides diagonal bracing that prevents the frames from sliding horizontally like an accordion. As construction continues, more of the OSB bracing strips will come off. They are not very photogenic.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WG93NNhDoSs/WIqhA_D0xvI/AAAAAAAAAFU/olxHlVdijJAtE2U-E7141uB-NUnzeRmGwCLcB/s1600/SNSR-004.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4zVeCuaWeDc/WIqhAxongvI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/5ajvOCbGXRcKUuvgvGAbk9GqIxnVVEiHQCLcB/s1600/SNSR-005.JPG

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:35 AM

ROBERT PETRICK
Sorry to have relived your childhood trauma. Any issues with graham crackers or peanut brittle?

Graham crackers I can do as long as they are crushed into a pie shell and filled with lemon pie filling! I can't remember the last time I had peanut brittle. I don't like the way it gets stuck in my teeth.Laugh

ROBERT PETRICK
Yes, I have a ton of 2x4s on hand.

Hey! The price is good so why not use them?!? I used to have a ton of wood pieces of various sizes but I threw them all out. My son and I went on a cleaning binge in the garage and we managed to fill a 10 yard bin. The wood was about half of that. Strangely, the garage didn't seem to be much cleaner when we were done!LaughLaugh Now I'm in the opposite situation and it bugs me. When I need a piece of wood I have to go buy it.Angry

I'm going to start buying the wood and foam for my benchwork pretty soon. I have to do some comparison shopping to see which is more economical for the grids, 3/4" plywood ripped into 4" strips, or good grade poplar or pine 1 x 4s.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Monday, January 23, 2017 10:18 AM

hon30critter

I don't like soda crackers! Got served too many when I was a kid!!

I take it that your use of 2 x 4s for uprights is because you have them available? You will be able to park a 1:1 Sherman tank on your benchwork when it is done!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh. Please understand that I'm not being critical.

Hey Dave-

Never be afraid to say what's on your mind. Constructive criticism is always welcome. I spend a lot of time worrying that I've overlooked or forgotten something, and having more eyes looking at this thing is very helpful.

Sorry to have relived your childhood trauma. Any issues with graham crackers or peanut brittle?

Yes, I have a ton of 2x4s on hand. I've been saving up for a year or more with this project in mind. Some are pretty new from my previous construction, and some are pretty old (and downright gnarly) from demo of closets and built-ins in the existing garage. It will be quite a while before I have to buy new materials. The main issue is that framing with 2x4s means I have to use 3" drywall screws instead of the more manageable 1-1/2" screws.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:23 PM

ROBERT PETRICK
OSB has almost no strength, and 1/4" x 2" strips can be broken apart in your hands like soda crackers.

I don't like soda crackers! Got served too many when I was a kid!!

Seriously, I figured you had everything worked out but I had to ask. I will be embarking on the construction of my own layout this spring so I'm trying to take in as many examples of how others are approaching the task as I can. Yours seems to be on the high side of the 'sturdy' spectrum. I like sturdy! I visited a layout in September that only had legs every 8' - 10' or so, with 2 x 4s running the span between them. There was no visible cross bracing but I believe things were attached to the wall behind. That, to me, was on the other end of the 'sturdy' spectrum but the owner wasn't having any problems and it had been up for years.

I take it that your use of 2 x 4s for uprights is because you have them available? You will be able to park a 1:1 Sherman tank on your benchwork when it is done!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh. Please understand that I'm not being critical.

You are making great progress!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:01 PM

hon30critter

Assuming that you have to do some work under the layout, have you figured out how you are actually going to get in there to do the work, or is most of the cross bracing temporary? 

Hey Dave-

Yes, all of the bracing is temporary. I cut a bunch of 2" strips from 1/4" OSB I got from the demo work. I assembled the H-frame sections in the workshop and screwed the diagonal strips to keep the frames square while I transported them to the layout room and set them up.

Right now this small portion of the peninsula just kinda sits alone in the middle of the room. When I get more assembled and connected and especially after I add the decking, I will remove the diagonals. The upper and lower levels are 18" apart, and there will be a painted plywood or masonite hardboard backdrop that runs the entire length between the decks. Like a vertical spine. That (plus the fascia and skirting) should provide plenty of bracing. 

OSB has almost no strength, and 1/4" x 2" strips can be broken apart in your hands like soda crackers.

Thanks for looking ahead.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, January 22, 2017 9:53 PM

Hi Robert:

Your benchwork looks really solid, but I have to ask a question. You have a lot of cross bracing on the peninsula. Assuming that you have to do some work under the layout, have you figured out how you are actually going to get in there to do the work, or is most of the cross bracing temporary? 

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, January 22, 2017 9:12 PM

Started work on the middle peninsula. The hollow core doors are just laying on the lower level support brackets to get a feel for the space. The aisle in this area of the layout is 4 feet wide. Temporarily added one upper level cantilever arm to see what that's like.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qNsQ9Lu4WOs/WIVzAxfiJCI/AAAAAAAAAE4/dtHpVbpwyjkrNUwBwnBs4LZVubllJGs7gCLcB/s1600/SNSR-003.JPG

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:38 PM

Added cantilever arms to support the lower level. Progress.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0NJdMr-T__I/WIQaQr2cnhI/AAAAAAAAAEg/dm2vnpfCy_4kDzFMPnkSMf2YOgk3TDaAgCLcB/s1600/SNSR-002.JPG

LINK to SNSR Blog


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